Featured on Ned Bunnell

stormcloud · 12-18-2010, 08:55 PM

ben - just curious but you say that the k5 essentially would make no difference to your work and i can understand that - if k20 is good enough for printing in magizines then extra a couple of MP not likely to change much and likewise i doubt you ever shoot much past iso 100 anyway BUT you mentioned you would like a 645D, what advantage do you see it providing? surely 40MP is overkill is 14 is doing the job fine? or is it the gorgeous viewfinder that appeals so you can confirm autofocus is where its supposed to be?

Class A · 12-19-2010, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Can't we just accept a little hyperbole without challenging the nuances of it?

No.

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Frankly, form my perspective, Ben is 100% correct anyway.

From what you then wrote it only follows that there is still a lot of technological progress and that you find it worthwhile replacing your camera each year.

I still shoot my K100D and haven't found a need to dispose of it. Also, even for those who dispose of their cameras every year, it is still the question of whether or not the newest model is "overly expensive". I disagree with such a sweeping statement and nothing you said supported the inflated price argument.

audiobomber · 12-19-2010, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by stormcloud

ben - just curious but you say that the k5 essentially would make no difference to your work and i can understand that - if k20 is good enough for printing in magizines then extra a couple of MP not likely to change much and likewise i doubt you ever shoot much past iso 100 anyway

IIRC, Ben loves the way the K20D reproduces skin colour. I wish he had a K-5 just so I'd know how it compares.

**andre-mz5** · 12-19-2010, 08:48 AM

Hi Ben, if I remember correctly you were not very interested when the 645D was announced, but now you think it might be "interesting". Did anything changed in your way of working or work to change opinion? Hence no offense, everybody is free to change his mind, I'm just interested.

benjikan · 12-19-2010, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by stormcloud

ben - just curious but you say that the k5 essentially would make no difference to your work and i can understand that - if k20 is good enough for printing in magizines then extra a couple of MP not likely to change much and likewise i doubt you ever shoot much past iso 100 anyway BUT you mentioned you would like a 645D, what advantage do you see it providing? surely 40MP is overkill is 14 is doing the job fine? or is it the gorgeous viewfinder that appeals so you can confirm autofocus is where its supposed to be?

...Because it would be nice to have one...It would look good in my video's.

mikemike · 12-20-2010, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by benjikan

It all comes down to what you have invested in glass, as all DSLR's are overly expensive disposable camera's.

I think of it like the price of a digital camera or DSLR body includes a lifetime supply of film for that camera. So for a k5, it takes about 10,000 clicks to break even compared to shooting on film. Probably more than 10k exposures though because the fact that pressing the button doesn't cost us any money makes us more wasteful with digital since it is possible to burn through a roll's worth of exposures in 5 seconds.

ghelary · 12-21-2010, 02:22 AM

Originally posted by mikemike

I think of it like the price of a digital camera or DSLR body includes a lifetime supply of film for that camera. So for a k5, it takes about 10,000 clicks to break even compared to shooting on film. Probably more than 10k exposures though because the fact that pressing the button doesn't cost us any money makes us more wasteful with digital since it is possible to burn through a roll's worth of exposures in 5 seconds.

This is true, if you just take in account the price of the rolls.
(10 000/36 ) * 5 = 1400€
36 pictures per roll
5€ per roll
But if you add developpement, proofing and scanning/printing, we are far above that.

And this is not taking in account the camera, a Pentax LX or a Nikon F2 didn't come for free.

All in all, I believer digital photography is cheaper, even if it camera bodies look to be disposable.

FullertonImages · 12-22-2010, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

IIRC, Ben loves the way the K20D reproduces skin colour. I wish he had a K-5 just so I'd know how it compares.

I haven't done a side by side comparison, but from just my base impression, the K-5 has a harsher skin tone than the K20. The red channel is a little punchy and blotchy. I find myself pushing the red channel towards orange and desaturating it more than I did with the K20 or K-7. But it still works just fine, just a little bit different of an editing process. I think I can see how someone would prefer the K20 over the K-5 for portraits though.

FullertonImages · 12-22-2010, 11:37 AM

Btw, Nice video, Ben! I really love whatever the first song is. Great choice.

eddie1960 · 12-22-2010, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by benjikan

Probably stuff that wouldn't look any different published in the Magazine formats I work in. I was actually thinking of some K-r's for what I do. They are light, disposable after a year or so and have a wickedly good 12.3 megapixel sensor that would be perfect for magazine work.

I will wait and see...Perhaps a couple of K5's and a couple of grips might be nice...a 645D would be interesting as well...But so would any of the better DSLR's out there if you catch my drift.
It all comes down to what you have invested in glass, as all DSLR's are overly expensive disposable camera's.

I want to see the footage of you using the robot kr at a shoot, I think it would be ideal. I'd love one for interviews

benjikan · 12-26-2010, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by FullertonImages

Btw, Nice video, Ben! I really love whatever the first song is. Great choice.

The credits are at the end of the film. First song is called "Pure Gold" by Earth Wind & Fire.

bunegg · 01-03-2011, 02:22 AM

K20d got very nice neutral tones and is the only one that can tether... I bought mine back then because of this 2 points

Cambo · 01-03-2011, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by benjikan

Probably stuff that wouldn't look any different published in the Magazine formats I work in. I was actually thinking of some K-r's for what I do. They are light, disposable after a year or so and have a wickedly good 12.3 megapixel sensor that would be perfect for magazine work.

I will wait and see...Perhaps a couple of K5's and a couple of grips might be nice...a 645D would be interesting as well...But so would any of the better DSLR's out there if you catch my drift.
It all comes down to what you have invested in glass, as all DSLR's are overly expensive disposable camera's.

Originally posted by benjikan

...Because it would be nice to have one...It would look good in my video's.

is a MONSTER! I've only tried one briefly...MUCH bigger than the film 645, which was very small by medium format standards...

Hope you're keeping well, man, and that you're still making music...we'll have to hook up on Facebook sometime....

Cheers,
Cameron

PS: here's a shot of my hometown...with YOUR sharpening scheme applied...

snipenekkid · 01-05-2011, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by bunegg

K20d got very nice neutral tones and is the only one that can tether... I bought mine back then because of this 2 points

This is no longer completely true. If you google PKTether you will find a new app called PKTether (or is it PK-Tether??) but it works with the K-r, K5, K-7 as well as most other K-series DSLRs that have some sort of standard USB setup for DSLRs. I have tired it out with my K5 and it is pretty nice. With my K20d (I could not sell it for what it's worth to me) it's super fast and a vast improvement over the crappy Pentax Remote Assistant Software.

The software is just an alpha I think but it seems pretty much as functional or more than the Pentax software that came with the K20d. Still no live view tethering but this is closer.

https://sites.google.com/a/pentax.org.pl/tomaszkos/en/pk_tether

i am sure there is a thread around here somewhere but did not search.

bunegg · 01-05-2011, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by snipenekkid

This is no longer completely true. If you google PKTether you will find a new app called PKTether (or is it PK-Tether??) but it works with the K-r, K5, K-7 as well as most other K-series DSLRs that have some sort of standard USB setup for DSLRs. I have tired it out with my K5 and it is pretty nice. With my K20d (I could not sell it for what it's worth to me) it's super fast and a vast improvement over the crappy Pentax Remote Assistant Software.

The software is just an alpha I think but it seems pretty much as functional or more than the Pentax software that came with the K20d. Still no live view tethering but this is closer.

https://sites.google.com/a/pentax.org.pl/tomaszkos/en/pk_tether

i am sure there is a thread around here somewhere but did not search.

Have to agree with u the pentax software is crap.. Shoot a little faster and everything hangs.. Best part is sometimes u lose afew images inbetween hangs

01-03-2011, 01:28 PM	#28
Cambo Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,016	645d... Originally posted by benjikan Probably stuff that wouldn't look any different published in the Magazine formats I work in. I was actually thinking of some K-r's for what I do. They are light, disposable after a year or so and have a wickedly good 12.3 megapixel sensor that would be perfect for magazine work. I will wait and see...Perhaps a couple of K5's and a couple of grips might be nice...a 645D would be interesting as well...But so would any of the better DSLR's out there if you catch my drift. It all comes down to what you have invested in glass, as all DSLR's are overly expensive disposable camera's. Originally posted by benjikan ...Because it would be nice to have one...It would look good in my video's. is a MONSTER! I've only tried one briefly...MUCH bigger than the film 645, which was very small by medium format standards... Hope you're keeping well, man, and that you're still making music...we'll have to hook up on Facebook sometime.... Cheers, Cameron PS: here's a shot of my hometown...with YOUR sharpening scheme applied...

01-05-2011, 01:38 AM	#29
snipenekkid Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 95	OT: Now most K-series Pentax can tether Originally posted by bunegg K20d got very nice neutral tones and is the only one that can tether... I bought mine back then because of this 2 points This is no longer completely true. If you google PKTether you will find a new app called PKTether (or is it PK-Tether??) but it works with the K-r, K5, K-7 as well as most other K-series DSLRs that have some sort of standard USB setup for DSLRs. I have tired it out with my K5 and it is pretty nice. With my K20d (I could not sell it for what it's worth to me) it's super fast and a vast improvement over the crappy Pentax Remote Assistant Software. The software is just an alpha I think but it seems pretty much as functional or more than the Pentax software that came with the K20d. Still no live view tethering but this is closer. https://sites.google.com/a/pentax.org.pl/tomaszkos/en/pk_tether i am sure there is a thread around here somewhere but did not search.

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12-18-2010, 08:55 PM	#16
stormcloud Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 232	ben - just curious but you say that the k5 essentially would make no difference to your work and i can understand that - if k20 is good enough for printing in magizines then extra a couple of MP not likely to change much and likewise i doubt you ever shoot much past iso 100 anyway BUT you mentioned you would like a 645D, what advantage do you see it providing? surely 40MP is overkill is 14 is doing the job fine? or is it the gorgeous viewfinder that appeals so you can confirm autofocus is where its supposed to be?

12-19-2010, 06:03 AM	#17
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Wheatfield Can't we just accept a little hyperbole without challenging the nuances of it? No. Originally posted by Wheatfield Frankly, form my perspective, Ben is 100% correct anyway. From what you then wrote it only follows that there is still a lot of technological progress and that you find it worthwhile replacing your camera each year. I still shoot my K100D and haven't found a need to dispose of it. Also, even for those who dispose of their cameras every year, it is still the question of whether or not the newest model is "overly expensive". I disagree with such a sweeping statement and nothing you said supported the inflated price argument.

12-19-2010, 06:59 AM	#18
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by stormcloud ben - just curious but you say that the k5 essentially would make no difference to your work and i can understand that - if k20 is good enough for printing in magizines then extra a couple of MP not likely to change much and likewise i doubt you ever shoot much past iso 100 anyway IIRC, Ben loves the way the K20D reproduces skin colour. I wish he had a K-5 just so I'd know how it compares.

12-19-2010, 08:48 AM	#19
andre-mz5 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Eindhoven Photos: Gallery Posts: 268	Hi Ben, if I remember correctly you were not very interested when the 645D was announced, but now you think it might be "interesting". Did anything changed in your way of working or work to change opinion? Hence no offense, everybody is free to change his mind, I'm just interested.

12-19-2010, 09:44 AM	#20
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308 Original Poster	Originally posted by stormcloud ben - just curious but you say that the k5 essentially would make no difference to your work and i can understand that - if k20 is good enough for printing in magizines then extra a couple of MP not likely to change much and likewise i doubt you ever shoot much past iso 100 anyway BUT you mentioned you would like a 645D, what advantage do you see it providing? surely 40MP is overkill is 14 is doing the job fine? or is it the gorgeous viewfinder that appeals so you can confirm autofocus is where its supposed to be? ...Because it would be nice to have one...It would look good in my video's.

12-20-2010, 03:44 PM	#21
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	Originally posted by benjikan It all comes down to what you have invested in glass, as all DSLR's are overly expensive disposable camera's. I think of it like the price of a digital camera or DSLR body includes a lifetime supply of film for that camera. So for a k5, it takes about 10,000 clicks to break even compared to shooting on film. Probably more than 10k exposures though because the fact that pressing the button doesn't cost us any money makes us more wasteful with digital since it is possible to burn through a roll's worth of exposures in 5 seconds.

12-21-2010, 02:22 AM	#22
ghelary Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 613	Originally posted by mikemike I think of it like the price of a digital camera or DSLR body includes a lifetime supply of film for that camera. So for a k5, it takes about 10,000 clicks to break even compared to shooting on film. Probably more than 10k exposures though because the fact that pressing the button doesn't cost us any money makes us more wasteful with digital since it is possible to burn through a roll's worth of exposures in 5 seconds. This is true, if you just take in account the price of the rolls. (10 000/36 ) * 5 = 1400€ 36 pictures per roll 5€ per roll But if you add developpement, proofing and scanning/printing, we are far above that. And this is not taking in account the camera, a Pentax LX or a Nikon F2 didn't come for free. All in all, I believer digital photography is cheaper, even if it camera bodies look to be disposable.

12-22-2010, 11:07 AM	#23
FullertonImages Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 883	Originally posted by audiobomber IIRC, Ben loves the way the K20D reproduces skin colour. I wish he had a K-5 just so I'd know how it compares. I haven't done a side by side comparison, but from just my base impression, the K-5 has a harsher skin tone than the K20. The red channel is a little punchy and blotchy. I find myself pushing the red channel towards orange and desaturating it more than I did with the K20 or K-7. But it still works just fine, just a little bit different of an editing process. I think I can see how someone would prefer the K20 over the K-5 for portraits though.

12-22-2010, 11:37 AM	#24
FullertonImages Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 883	Btw, Nice video, Ben! I really love whatever the first song is. Great choice.

12-22-2010, 11:44 AM	#25
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by benjikan Probably stuff that wouldn't look any different published in the Magazine formats I work in. I was actually thinking of some K-r's for what I do. They are light, disposable after a year or so and have a wickedly good 12.3 megapixel sensor that would be perfect for magazine work. I will wait and see...Perhaps a couple of K5's and a couple of grips might be nice...a 645D would be interesting as well...But so would any of the better DSLR's out there if you catch my drift. It all comes down to what you have invested in glass, as all DSLR's are overly expensive disposable camera's. I want to see the footage of you using the robot kr at a shoot, I think it would be ideal. I'd love one for interviews

12-26-2010, 08:28 AM	#26
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308 Original Poster	Originally posted by FullertonImages Btw, Nice video, Ben! I really love whatever the first song is. Great choice. The credits are at the end of the film. First song is called "Pure Gold" by Earth Wind & Fire.

01-03-2011, 02:22 AM	#27
bunegg Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 82	K20d got very nice neutral tones and is the only one that can tether... I bought mine back then because of this 2 points

01-05-2011, 04:14 AM	#30
bunegg Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 82	Originally posted by snipenekkid This is no longer completely true. If you google PKTether you will find a new app called PKTether (or is it PK-Tether??) but it works with the K-r, K5, K-7 as well as most other K-series DSLRs that have some sort of standard USB setup for DSLRs. I have tired it out with my K5 and it is pretty nice. With my K20d (I could not sell it for what it's worth to me) it's super fast and a vast improvement over the crappy Pentax Remote Assistant Software. The software is just an alpha I think but it seems pretty much as functional or more than the Pentax software that came with the K20d. Still no live view tethering but this is closer. https://sites.google.com/a/pentax.org.pl/tomaszkos/en/pk_tether i am sure there is a thread around here somewhere but did not search. Have to agree with u the pentax software is crap.. Shoot a little faster and everything hangs.. Best part is sometimes u lose afew images inbetween hangs