Pentax 18-250 is here

Harald · 10-02-2007, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by raz-0

does it at least get the SMC coating?

Well, not mean to be rude but what do you think if its name is SMC P-DA 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 ED AL(IF)?

ZaphodB · 10-02-2007, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by thibs

I see no problem with that, they buy the optical formula but manufactures the whole thing themselves.

No compatibility problem, aesthetic looking like other Pentax lenses and SMC on top of it. Where's the problem?

The problem is exactly the one I have said many times now... as follows...

Why would I care if the lens is aesthetically like other Pentax lenses? How on earth is that going to affect the images?

No compatibility problems? Good. Why? Should I have been expecting some?

SMC coating? Well that's nice. A Tamron lens with probably less chance of flare... still a Tamron lens though.

... And this is the problem for me. When I buy Pentax glass I want it to be Pentax glass. Because I bought into the Pentax system mostly for Pentax glass. Just like people buy Nikon for Nikkors or Canon for L glass. Yes, the K10d is nice but I don't choose a system solely for a camera body... it's more about the lenses. And yes, occasionally previous Pentax, Nikon and Minolta lenses hve been rebadged from third-parties but it is an occasional thing, not something that happens all the time. I want to know that this is the case here; that it is not an example of Pentax becoming a system almost entirely consisting of third-party glass, because Hoya won't allow Pentax to develop their own designs while they milk the company. The "new" roadmap certainly doesn't help in that regard, doing nothing other than adding this lens and removing the projected release dates of high-end glass.

thibs · 10-02-2007, 02:05 PM

Ten shoud count the amount of Tamron rebadged to Pentax lenses and really wonder if there"s a problem or not.

If you come to the onclusion that there's a problem (I'd surprised but then that's your conclusion not mine) then, change system.

AFAIK That's the 3rd lens Petax sources from Tamron in Pentax's history, but you're right, Pentax's doomed and will disapear very soon into a Tokina/Tamron rebadged system.

sharpshoota · 10-03-2007, 03:22 AM

I'm seriously considering selling the whole system. I really do think the company is doomed.

maleek · 10-03-2007, 03:57 AM

Well. Now it's official at least. On dpreview and probably a bunch on other sites as well.

Edvinas · 10-03-2007, 03:59 AM

Originally posted by sharpshoota

I'm seriously considering selling the whole system. I really do think the company is doomed.

Of course, if Pentax disappear (in Minolta way) Pentax cameras and lenses will stop functioning immediately

While Pentax as a brand name may be doomed, I do not believe Pentax system will be doomed. When Hoya sells Pentax imaging division (I think they will do that no matter how this division is going to perform) someone interested in camera making (Samsung?) will buy it and will continue to produce DSLRs with K-mount.

anomaly · 10-03-2007, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by Edvinas

Of course, if Pentax disappear (in Minolta way) Pentax cameras and lenses will stop functioning immediately

While Pentax as a brand name may be doomed, I do not believe Pentax system will be doomed. When Hoya sells Pentax imaging division (I think they will do that no matter how this division is going to perform) someone interested in camera making (Samsung?) will buy it and will continue to produce DSLRs with K-mount.

I can appreciate what he is saying though. For someone who intends to develop their photography, whether as a hobby or professionally, for many many years to come, the system which they are using going under is a huge blow and it would make sense to sell off if you see such a time coming. You would get more money for your equipment that way.

I am not worried about it actually happening though. Some one else will pick up the K-mount if hoya drops it. It is as simple as that.
They would have a ready made market.

ngkmh · 10-03-2007, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by ZaphodB

The problem is exactly the one I have said many times now... as follows...

Why would I care if the lens is aesthetically like other Pentax lenses? How on earth is that going to affect the images?

No compatibility problems? Good. Why? Should I have been expecting some?

SMC coating? Well that's nice. A Tamron lens with probably less chance of flare... still a Tamron lens though.

... And this is the problem for me. When I buy Pentax glass I want it to be Pentax glass. Because I bought into the Pentax system mostly for Pentax glass. Just like people buy Nikon for Nikkors or Canon for L glass. Yes, the K10d is nice but I don't choose a system solely for a camera body... it's more about the lenses. And yes, occasionally previous Pentax, Nikon and Minolta lenses hve been rebadged from third-parties but it is an occasional thing, not something that happens all the time. I want to know that this is the case here; that it is not an example of Pentax becoming a system almost entirely consisting of third-party glass, because Hoya won't allow Pentax to develop their own designs while they milk the company. The "new" roadmap certainly doesn't help in that regard, doing nothing other than adding this lens and removing the projected release dates of high-end glass.

I agree. Pentax's lens output has been atrocious for the past 5 years. The last pure Pentax zoom lens was probably the 16-45.

The new DA* are joint Tokina designs as is the 12-24.

Maybe their inhouse team is concentrating on prime lens design and Pentax is outsourcing zoom lens design.

thePiRaTE!! · 10-03-2007, 08:19 AM

I recall reading recently how Hoya had intended to extract better profitability from Pentax while 'better serving' the market base. Its only been a few months since the merger and so far it seems to me they are simply following through on that. The DA* zooms were already on the doorstep, and came through. But this more consumer oriented 18-250 is squeezed in to satisfy the profitable (non-pro) consumer market, the kind that ask "whats the zoom on that?". Its a smart way to generate revenue while freeing up the R&D guys to work up the rest of the DA*s. Unless this lens totally bombs (which it won't) I can't see how adding a lens to the consumer end is a bad thing for the company. Its simply a target of opportunity to bolster some revenue at little expense, clearly not intended to impress the professionals.

On a strictly personal note, my dream would be for Pentax to simply dust off some of the older designs instead of forcing everything to APS-C compatibility. I wouldn't buy the new DA* primes because I'm holding out hope for the day we get a K-mount, full frame sensor... but thats just me.

FotoPete · 10-03-2007, 08:24 AM

The DFA50mm and 100mm macros are also Tokina designs though slightly altered. (The Tokina Macros, the hood is mounted on the lens cam. In the DFA variants, the hoods are mounted on the outer rim of the lens and so the lens cam extends inside the hood.

The DA*35 Macro Ltd is said to have Tokina origins as well. I hope Pentax does not become another "Vivitar". A once prestigous name diluted by the continued outsourcing.

FotoPete · 10-03-2007, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by sharpshoota

I'm seriously considering selling the whole system. I really do think the company is doomed.

Haha why would that make a difference at this point?

Btw Pentax is a tiny fraction of what Hoya is. Remember that Hoya makes ALL the glass blanks most of the big lens makers.

Anyhow, Pentax's true worth lies primary in their M42-K-M-A-F-FA*-DA Ltd lineages. Heavily weighted to the left. =P

Its like Vivitar nowadays. Its all afterthoughts from Cosina (although some are decent) but the lenses are nothing compared to the old Vivitars from Kiron, tokina and Komine.

After the takeover, it may take a while for Pentax R&D to recuperate. Or you might get budding of discontented designers.

(i.e. How decades ago, Nikon engineers left and formed "Tokina")

ZaphodB · 10-03-2007, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by thibs

If you come to the onclusion that there's a problem (I'd surprised but then that's your conclusion not mine) then, change system.

AFAIK That's the 3rd lens Petax sources from Tamron in Pentax's history, but you're right, Pentax's doomed and will disapear very soon into a Tokina/Tamron rebadged system.

I don't particularly want to change system, because frankly I'm less than impressed with the alternatives...
Canon: Low-end gear feels like kids' toys (yes a cliche but it's true)... their equivalent products are relatively lacking in features, I have had terrible service from them in the past... and for several years they have considered it unnecessary to put an adequate viewfinder in a camera that you can actually look through without squinting hard.
Nikon: Also overrated and overpriced; e.g. despite all the money they can sink into camera design, they came up with an entry-level model that was less impressive than Pentax's offerings (the D40/D40x) and removed lens compatibility too... and everyone lapped it up anyway... they will comfortably continue to do this sort of thing, whereas Pentax being the underdog had a real incentive to work hard and produce exceptional gear.
Sony: Still only one reasonable entry-level body and one very expensive mid-level one... plus lens availability is not much greater than Pentax, and available lenses are massively overpriced too.

So I'm in no hurry to change system. If I was, I wouldn't be posting here. I am posting because I have always liked Pentax, I very much want to continue liking them and using them, and it disappoints me that the system is far from living up to its potential, and that Hoya feels absolutely no need to give even the slightest confirmation that they have any faith in the system and intend to continue supporting it.

When did I say Pentax was doomed? Never. I'm just not pretending it's not a possibility. To me it seems quite clear that Hoya are not as committed to the system as many folks were saying at the time of the takeover. Others are convinced that they are definitely going to sell Pentax; I'm not going that far, I'm just saying that the signs so far are not good. And a reliance on third-party glass (and Pentax/third-party joint designs, unless you are totally convinced that Pentax designs Tokina's lenses for them) is one of those signs, or at least it is when considered alongside the fact of there being no new Pentax glass and the refusal to even provide a possible timeframe in which we might see such glass.

I also can't agree with the idea that everything will be fine even if Hoya dumps Pentax. Yes of course their current gear will continue to work... and if you are entirely satisfied with all the Pentax gear you have now and can confidently say you will be equally happy with it in 5 years' time, then good for you... for the rest of us it's not so good. Who will make the glass? Not the third parties; they've already stopped making their best lenses for the K mount. So we look to Samsung or whoever else the new buyer turns out to be... we have no idea if they will do a half decent job, or whether the system they create will bear any relation at all to the system we bought into. So, sorry if I am not entirely optimistic about that brave new world.

Duh_Vinci · 10-03-2007, 04:04 PM

So, who is going to have one in stock first?

I have some spare cash burning in the pocket, planning the trip soon, want to take one lens, and somehow would like to think this would be the one

Regards,
D

Donald · 10-03-2007, 08:37 PM

what is the wisdom of 18-250 zoom lens? From reading and research it is suggested that 2 - 3X optical zoom is recommended, hence the plethora of manufacturers 12-24, 16-45, 16-50, 17-40, 70-210, etc....

Now Pentoya has bought a 14X optical zoom?

This lens sounds like a piece of shit mistake before it even exists. I also don't understand the sycophants drooling over any Pentoya piece of shit no matter the rumour or how (im)probable.

eurostar · 10-03-2007, 11:24 PM

The wisdom lies just in the fact that many potential customer now have never photographed with film, they mostly come from digital compact and especially cellular phones, they come to the reflex looking for more responsiveness (faster Af, lesser shutter lag etc) and for less digital noise, but doen't care (because they don't know) about absolute image quality.

They are used to "one lens do it all" and want it over their reflex, like they had before on their picture taking device.

Are they wrong? No, it's just another way, a different way, to take picture.

10-03-2007, 09:41 AM	#57
ZaphodB Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 264	Originally posted by thibs If you come to the onclusion that there's a problem (I'd surprised but then that's your conclusion not mine) then, change system. AFAIK That's the 3rd lens Petax sources from Tamron in Pentax's history, but you're right, Pentax's doomed and will disapear very soon into a Tokina/Tamron rebadged system. I don't particularly want to change system, because frankly I'm less than impressed with the alternatives... Canon: Low-end gear feels like kids' toys (yes a cliche but it's true)... their equivalent products are relatively lacking in features, I have had terrible service from them in the past... and for several years they have considered it unnecessary to put an adequate viewfinder in a camera that you can actually look through without squinting hard. Nikon: Also overrated and overpriced; e.g. despite all the money they can sink into camera design, they came up with an entry-level model that was less impressive than Pentax's offerings (the D40/D40x) and removed lens compatibility too... and everyone lapped it up anyway... they will comfortably continue to do this sort of thing, whereas Pentax being the underdog had a real incentive to work hard and produce exceptional gear. Sony: Still only one reasonable entry-level body and one very expensive mid-level one... plus lens availability is not much greater than Pentax, and available lenses are massively overpriced too. So I'm in no hurry to change system. If I was, I wouldn't be posting here. I am posting because I have always liked Pentax, I very much want to continue liking them and using them, and it disappoints me that the system is far from living up to its potential, and that Hoya feels absolutely no need to give even the slightest confirmation that they have any faith in the system and intend to continue supporting it. When did I say Pentax was doomed? Never. I'm just not pretending it's not a possibility. To me it seems quite clear that Hoya are not as committed to the system as many folks were saying at the time of the takeover. Others are convinced that they are definitely going to sell Pentax; I'm not going that far, I'm just saying that the signs so far are not good. And a reliance on third-party glass (and Pentax/third-party joint designs, unless you are totally convinced that Pentax designs Tokina's lenses for them) is one of those signs, or at least it is when considered alongside the fact of there being no new Pentax glass and the refusal to even provide a possible timeframe in which we might see such glass. I also can't agree with the idea that everything will be fine even if Hoya dumps Pentax. Yes of course their current gear will continue to work... and if you are entirely satisfied with all the Pentax gear you have now and can confidently say you will be equally happy with it in 5 years' time, then good for you... for the rest of us it's not so good. Who will make the glass? Not the third parties; they've already stopped making their best lenses for the K mount. So we look to Samsung or whoever else the new buyer turns out to be... we have no idea if they will do a half decent job, or whether the system they create will bear any relation at all to the system we bought into. So, sorry if I am not entirely optimistic about that brave new world. Last edited by ZaphodB; 10-03-2007 at 09:55 AM.

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10-02-2007, 12:07 PM	#46
Harald Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 259	Originally posted by raz-0 does it at least get the SMC coating? Well, not mean to be rude but what do you think if its name is SMC P-DA 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 ED AL(IF)?

10-02-2007, 01:20 PM	#47
ZaphodB Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 264	Originally posted by thibs I see no problem with that, they buy the optical formula but manufactures the whole thing themselves. No compatibility problem, aesthetic looking like other Pentax lenses and SMC on top of it. Where's the problem? The problem is exactly the one I have said many times now... as follows... Why would I care if the lens is aesthetically like other Pentax lenses? How on earth is that going to affect the images? No compatibility problems? Good. Why? Should I have been expecting some? SMC coating? Well that's nice. A Tamron lens with probably less chance of flare... still a Tamron lens though. ... And this is the problem for me. When I buy Pentax glass I want it to be Pentax glass. Because I bought into the Pentax system mostly for Pentax glass. Just like people buy Nikon for Nikkors or Canon for L glass. Yes, the K10d is nice but I don't choose a system solely for a camera body... it's more about the lenses. And yes, occasionally previous Pentax, Nikon and Minolta lenses hve been rebadged from third-parties but it is an occasional thing, not something that happens all the time. I want to know that this is the case here; that it is not an example of Pentax becoming a system almost entirely consisting of third-party glass, because Hoya won't allow Pentax to develop their own designs while they milk the company. The "new" roadmap certainly doesn't help in that regard, doing nothing other than adding this lens and removing the projected release dates of high-end glass.

10-02-2007, 02:05 PM	#48
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001 Original Poster	Ten shoud count the amount of Tamron rebadged to Pentax lenses and really wonder if there"s a problem or not. If you come to the onclusion that there's a problem (I'd surprised but then that's your conclusion not mine) then, change system. AFAIK That's the 3rd lens Petax sources from Tamron in Pentax's history, but you're right, Pentax's doomed and will disapear very soon into a Tokina/Tamron rebadged system.

10-03-2007, 03:22 AM	#49
sharpshoota Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NYC Photos: Gallery Posts: 107	I'm seriously considering selling the whole system. I really do think the company is doomed.

10-03-2007, 03:57 AM	#50
maleek Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Karlstad, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 222	Well. Now it's official at least. On dpreview and probably a bunch on other sites as well.

10-03-2007, 03:59 AM	#51
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Originally posted by sharpshoota I'm seriously considering selling the whole system. I really do think the company is doomed. Of course, if Pentax disappear (in Minolta way) Pentax cameras and lenses will stop functioning immediately While Pentax as a brand name may be doomed, I do not believe Pentax system will be doomed. When Hoya sells Pentax imaging division (I think they will do that no matter how this division is going to perform) someone interested in camera making (Samsung?) will buy it and will continue to produce DSLRs with K-mount.

10-03-2007, 07:19 AM	#52
anomaly Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Barbados Photos: Gallery Posts: 264	Originally posted by Edvinas Of course, if Pentax disappear (in Minolta way) Pentax cameras and lenses will stop functioning immediately While Pentax as a brand name may be doomed, I do not believe Pentax system will be doomed. When Hoya sells Pentax imaging division (I think they will do that no matter how this division is going to perform) someone interested in camera making (Samsung?) will buy it and will continue to produce DSLRs with K-mount. I can appreciate what he is saying though. For someone who intends to develop their photography, whether as a hobby or professionally, for many many years to come, the system which they are using going under is a huge blow and it would make sense to sell off if you see such a time coming. You would get more money for your equipment that way. I am not worried about it actually happening though. Some one else will pick up the K-mount if hoya drops it. It is as simple as that. They would have a ready made market.

10-03-2007, 07:38 AM	#53
ngkmh Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 41	Originally posted by ZaphodB The problem is exactly the one I have said many times now... as follows... Why would I care if the lens is aesthetically like other Pentax lenses? How on earth is that going to affect the images? No compatibility problems? Good. Why? Should I have been expecting some? SMC coating? Well that's nice. A Tamron lens with probably less chance of flare... still a Tamron lens though. ... And this is the problem for me. When I buy Pentax glass I want it to be Pentax glass. Because I bought into the Pentax system mostly for Pentax glass. Just like people buy Nikon for Nikkors or Canon for L glass. Yes, the K10d is nice but I don't choose a system solely for a camera body... it's more about the lenses. And yes, occasionally previous Pentax, Nikon and Minolta lenses hve been rebadged from third-parties but it is an occasional thing, not something that happens all the time. I want to know that this is the case here; that it is not an example of Pentax becoming a system almost entirely consisting of third-party glass, because Hoya won't allow Pentax to develop their own designs while they milk the company. The "new" roadmap certainly doesn't help in that regard, doing nothing other than adding this lens and removing the projected release dates of high-end glass. I agree. Pentax's lens output has been atrocious for the past 5 years. The last pure Pentax zoom lens was probably the 16-45. The new DA* are joint Tokina designs as is the 12-24. Maybe their inhouse team is concentrating on prime lens design and Pentax is outsourcing zoom lens design.

10-03-2007, 08:19 AM	#54
thePiRaTE!! Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Calgary, AB Photos: Gallery Posts: 942	I recall reading recently how Hoya had intended to extract better profitability from Pentax while 'better serving' the market base. Its only been a few months since the merger and so far it seems to me they are simply following through on that. The DA* zooms were already on the doorstep, and came through. But this more consumer oriented 18-250 is squeezed in to satisfy the profitable (non-pro) consumer market, the kind that ask "whats the zoom on that?". Its a smart way to generate revenue while freeing up the R&D guys to work up the rest of the DAs. Unless this lens totally bombs (which it won't) I can't see how adding a lens to the consumer end is a bad thing for the company. Its simply a target of opportunity to bolster some revenue at little expense, clearly not intended to impress the professionals. On a strictly personal note, my dream would be for Pentax to simply dust off some of the older designs instead of forcing everything to APS-C compatibility. I wouldn't buy the new DA primes because I'm holding out hope for the day we get a K-mount, full frame sensor... but thats just me.

10-03-2007, 08:24 AM	#55
FotoPete Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,774	The DFA50mm and 100mm macros are also Tokina designs though slightly altered. (The Tokina Macros, the hood is mounted on the lens cam. In the DFA variants, the hoods are mounted on the outer rim of the lens and so the lens cam extends inside the hood. The DA*35 Macro Ltd is said to have Tokina origins as well. I hope Pentax does not become another "Vivitar". A once prestigous name diluted by the continued outsourcing.

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10-03-2007, 08:36 AM	#56
FotoPete Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,774	Originally posted by sharpshoota I'm seriously considering selling the whole system. I really do think the company is doomed. Haha why would that make a difference at this point? Btw Pentax is a tiny fraction of what Hoya is. Remember that Hoya makes ALL the glass blanks most of the big lens makers. Anyhow, Pentax's true worth lies primary in their M42-K-M-A-F-FA*-DA Ltd lineages. Heavily weighted to the left. =P Its like Vivitar nowadays. Its all afterthoughts from Cosina (although some are decent) but the lenses are nothing compared to the old Vivitars from Kiron, tokina and Komine. After the takeover, it may take a while for Pentax R&D to recuperate. Or you might get budding of discontented designers. (i.e. How decades ago, Nikon engineers left and formed "Tokina")

10-03-2007, 04:04 PM	#58
Duh_Vinci Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,300	So, who is going to have one in stock first? I have some spare cash burning in the pocket, planning the trip soon, want to take one lens, and somehow would like to think this would be the one Regards, D

10-03-2007, 08:37 PM	#59
Donald Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 329	what is the wisdom of 18-250 zoom lens? From reading and research it is suggested that 2 - 3X optical zoom is recommended, hence the plethora of manufacturers 12-24, 16-45, 16-50, 17-40, 70-210, etc.... Now Pentoya has bought a 14X optical zoom? This lens sounds like a piece of shit mistake before it even exists. I also don't understand the sycophants drooling over any Pentoya piece of shit no matter the rumour or how (im)probable.

10-03-2007, 11:24 PM	#60
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	The wisdom lies just in the fact that many potential customer now have never photographed with film, they mostly come from digital compact and especially cellular phones, they come to the reflex looking for more responsiveness (faster Af, lesser shutter lag etc) and for less digital noise, but doen't care (because they don't know) about absolute image quality. They are used to "one lens do it all" and want it over their reflex, like they had before on their picture taking device. Are they wrong? No, it's just another way, a different way, to take picture.