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10-06-2007, 05:00 AM   #136
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My prediction

QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
Come on folks, dig deep and keep up the speculation!
Richard,

As much fun as this has been I'm afraid the fat lady just sang. If they don't announce a new camera before the end of the Paris show, Hoya has shown their hand. There will be NOTHING new until next July, August, and then there might not be anything.

The Hoya game plan is to eliminate rebates, improve internal profitability, and ride this horse until it hits an acceptable net profit. If Pentax can't do it with what they have the division will be sold. I could go into a long post as to why I think this is true but put yourself in the shoes of the Hoya CEO and look at it from his point of view. There really is no other choice to make.

Regards,

Ken

10-06-2007, 12:00 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
As much fun as this has been I'm afraid the fat lady just sang. If they don't announce a new camera before the end of the Paris show, Hoya has shown their hand. There will be NOTHING new until next July, August, and then there might not be anything.

The Hoya game plan is to eliminate rebates, improve internal profitability, and ride this horse until it hits an acceptable net profit. If Pentax can't do it with what they have the division will be sold. I could go into a long post as to why I think this is true but put yourself in the shoes of the Hoya CEO and look at it from his point of view. There really is no other choice to make.
Is this from an "reliable" source (not that we haven't had enough unreliable "reliable" sources in the past)?

If so, then I really can't understand Hoya management. Sure, raking in profits is nice, but wouldn't it be more profitable to release a new premium body (especially if it is almost ready to go) than sell cheaper and cheaper K10d units. Wouldn't it also be more profitable to build consumer loyalty? There is enough "oh, don't buy a Pentax, because their future is uncertain" in the air already. If there is *silence* from Pentax/Hoya until next year that will just get worse and worse and no one will end up buying Pentax gear.

Sounds almost like Hoya wants an excuse to get rid of the Pentax camera division.
10-06-2007, 12:26 PM   #138
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Steve

QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
There are definitely people in the know. Maybe even I know more than I can say?
Hi Richard;

Steve came by today to see me at the Salon de la Photo. We hung in the VIP room for about an hour. Great guy. I'm sorry you couldn't make it. I hope things turn out well. Let us hope so...Steve showed me his kit...Some serious lenses..Geez.

Ben

PS...Oh yeah, of course there is a next generation Pentax. That IS agiven...OH and "what a given!!"

Ben
10-06-2007, 12:28 PM   #139
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Wrong....

QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Richard,

As much fun as this has been I'm afraid the fat lady just sang. If they don't announce a new camera before the end of the Paris show, Hoya has shown their hand. There will be NOTHING new until next July, August, and then there might not be anything.

The Hoya game plan is to eliminate rebates, improve internal profitability, and ride this horse until it hits an acceptable net profit. If Pentax can't do it with what they have the division will be sold. I could go into a long post as to why I think this is true but put yourself in the shoes of the Hoya CEO and look at it from his point of view. There really is no other choice to make.

Regards,

Ken
WRONG, Big Time!!!

10-06-2007, 12:38 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
PS...Oh yeah, of course there is a next generation Pentax. That IS a given...OH and "what a given!!"
Ben
Are we talking days, months, or years?
10-06-2007, 01:06 PM   #141
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I hope I am

QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
WRONG, Big Time!!!
Ben,

I seriously hope I am wrong. Unfortunately the facts indicate I'm not.

Regards,

Ken
10-06-2007, 02:48 PM   #142
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My perspective on this is that it would make no sense to launch the gallery, Pentaxian.com and keep launching lenses if Hoya already knew it was going to scrap Pentax camera. Why bother making people feel part of a special group just to walk away? Remember that all of these came on line after the Hoya merger and Hoya could have easily scrapped them. Further, if Hoya wants profits they will have to bring something out to compete with C & N.

On a side note, I met a guy on a ferry ride today and I was outside with my K10D w/the Sigma 50-500. He pulls out a 1D and the big 500 f/4. We started talking and he was complimentary of Pentax but when I said I was waiting for what's next in bodies he said if I really wanted to upgrade I should go with the big 2. I said, ah, but I like the results I get from my underdog!
10-06-2007, 03:25 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by PaulAndAPentax Quote
My perspective on this is that it would make no sense to launch the gallery, Pentaxian.com and keep launching lenses if Hoya already knew it was going to scrap Pentax camera. Why bother making people feel part of a special group just to walk away? Remember that all of these came on line after the Hoya merger and Hoya could have easily scrapped them.
Part of why some of us are concerned is precisely because it seems like they have not been continuing to launch lenses... we finally got the two DA* zooms, and apparently issues with availability and possibly also quality control remain... apart from them, the only "new" lens is a superzoom which is actually a Tamron. As for all the other lenses on the "roadmap"... their provisional release dates have now been removed.
As for the gallery and website... well, launching a couple of websites is a relatively cheap way to draw attention to the company (certainly cheaper than producing new lenses or bodies!)... and why would Hoya continue this advertising if they were planning to scrap Pentax? Well, why wouldn't they? Even if they were planning to scrap Pentax they would want to milk it to the end; they would not admit it until the last minute.

As speculation it's no less valid than the endless speculation of the K20d, K15d, here's-what-I-think-the-K275D-Mini-Super-will-be-like type. But hopefully it's wrong; the recent posts by Ben and others "in the know" are promising, and hopefully they're based on actual sightings of equipment rather than just promises from Pentax people.

10-07-2007, 02:42 AM   #144
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Just a little off track - but I spent the whole day watching the V8 Supercars in Bathurst (the biggest event on the v8 calendar with very high TV ratings.
Congratulations to Loundes/Whincup and Triple 8 racing and yeah - Go Ford!

Now to make this a little more relevant - pretty much all through the 161 lap race there was a Pentax logo in the top left hand corner of the TV screen. Now believe me this certainly wouldn't have been cheap. A sticker on a headlight can set you back $100,000 for a possible few glimpses throughout a race on TV.

Now the glass is half empty guys on here will probably say -"hah proof Pentax is going to die as they are spending all the marketing $$$'s left in one big splurge."

Now the glass is half full guys (like me) will see this as a significant brand recognition push for Pentax in the Australian market. If they weren't looking to increase market share -- then why bother marketing?

I certainly believe people like Benjikan know stuff they can not reveal and I will continue saving to replace my *istDS with the next Pentax offering and will be investing in a Pentax 540 flash soon.
10-07-2007, 03:11 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by sft Quote
Hehe, quit teasing Richard

Well actually not interested in a new camera but since you do seem to have good relations with Pentax UK can you if possible get some info on a product we have known about for a while now - the DA*60-250? I know you're itching for this lens just like I am but what is going on? Is it still scehduled for late December release, is it Spring 08 now? Is it "God Forbid" on hold like the 645D, etc? Would greatly appreciate the info.
I've been told, quite specifically, that the 60-250 is "next" on the DA* releases. The 200 & 300 will also follow very shortly afterwards. The 60-250 was put first as it was deemed the "most next wanted". It has definitely not been shelved, nor any others on the roadmap (apart from the 645D + lens, which is "on hold" at this time). I was told to realistically expect the first deliveries in January 2008 although December 07 is the target date (I put in the years for the cynics!).

The delays have been purely down to stabilising the supply and manufacturig issues in making the first two DA*'s, especially the 16-50, the engineering team has been fully occupied with resolving these issues and shortage of engineers (throughout the industry) is a major factor here, in fact, the addition of the 18-250 was a recent (post Hoya) initiative to get a quality travel zoom on the stocks without affecting the program and it looks as though it's been generally well accepted as there was in no way, any other route open. It should be noted that the Pentax pricing is currently similar to the Tamron which should further please the critical. I shall be getting one as my general purpose P&S travel lens, it will replace my FA 28-105/3.2-4.5 with the added bonus of more reach at either end.

I hope that there will be further OEM projects, such as TC's and other specialised and/or desireable lenses to further expand the range. I have already made some suggestions along these lines ("Pentax" chipped TC's from Kenko and an SDM version of the 200-500 and 180mm macro from Tamron).

As a footnote, new bodies will always be a factor in the overall strategy as they are the vehicle for further lens sales and cannot be put off or delayed. They are the main deciding factor for most peoples initial decision to buy into the brand.

You will be very pleased with what Pentax are doing body wise with the next models. Even if you don't get one yourself, even Pentax realise that many find their existing body(s) fits their needs, but it will show that they have been, and still are, listening.
10-07-2007, 03:17 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
As speculation it's no less valid than the endless speculation of the K20d, K15d, tere's-what-I-think-the-K275D-Mini-Super-will-be-like type. But hopefully it's wrong; the recent posts by Ben and others "in the know" are promising, and hopefully they're based on actual sightings of equipment rather than just promises from Pentax people.
I'm not so optimistic here. Ben was making a lot of hints, however none of them materialized ("Big Fall surprise is coming", "Big news before October") unless rebadged Tamron lens was supposed to be sensation of the year.
And after spam about most incredible www site I don't really take into account what he tells... So far rumours from Malta, Bulgaria and Russia were much more credible than Ben's hints and predictions.
10-07-2007, 03:22 AM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Hi Richard;

Steve came by today to see me at the Salon de la Photo. We hung in the VIP room for about an hour. Great guy. I'm sorry you couldn't make it. I hope things turn out well. Let us hope so...Steve showed me his kit...Some serious lenses..Geez.

Ben

PS...Oh yeah, of course there is a next generation Pentax. That IS agiven...OH and "what a given!!"

Ben
Glad you two met up, I knew you you would get along.

Yep, Steve is passionate about his photography! I look forward to hearing all about your meet-up when he get's back from his escapades in Provence this coming week or two!

I'm sorry I couldn't make it, I could have come alone for the weekend, but it was my wifes (a significant) birthday yesterday and that would've been really a BIG No No!.

We were planning to be in Paris together for her birthday and the show, but some domestic issues arose which prevented this.

We are planning to come over in the Spring and meet up with a few photo friends. Maybe we can try out our new lenses and bodies then?
10-07-2007, 03:33 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by jms698 Quote
Are we talking days, months, or years?
Nothing this year, I expect announcements to be made pre-PMA (Jan 31) PMA - The Worldwide Community of Imaging Associations Home Page. I have no ideas about supply dates, but probably a few weeks later (late spring) so that people will have a reasonable chance to buy a new Pentax body (and some nice new lenses!) before the summer vacations.
10-07-2007, 03:42 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Richard,

As much fun as this has been I'm afraid the fat lady just sang. If they don't announce a new camera before the end of the Paris show, Hoya has shown their hand. There will be NOTHING new until next July, August, and then there might not be anything.

The Hoya game plan is to eliminate rebates, improve internal profitability, and ride this horse until it hits an acceptable net profit. If Pentax can't do it with what they have the division will be sold. I could go into a long post as to why I think this is true but put yourself in the shoes of the Hoya CEO and look at it from his point of view. There really is no other choice to make.

Regards,

Ken
Boy, your glass is just not half empty, it's almost all gone!

I don't see this at all from my viewpoint, nor do those who have a little more information than most others.

Cheer up and pour yourself a new drink, there is enough in the bottle!
10-07-2007, 03:47 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
I hope that there will be further OEM projects, such as TC's and other specialised and/or desireable lenses to further expand the range. I have already made some suggestions along these lines ("Pentax" chipped TC's from Kenko and an SDM version of the 200-500 and 180mm macro from Tamron).

You will be very pleased with what Pentax are doing body wise with the next models. Even if you don't get one yourself, even Pentax realise that many find their existing body(s) fits their needs, but it will show that they have been, and still are, listening.
Expanding the line with additional OEM offerings would be a very smart move and something Hoya would probably approve. It would also give the line enough inertia to carry it through the first quarter of 2008.

As for new bodies being introduced before then still seems very unlikely to me. The 2007 Christmas buying season is already lost so why not hold off this expense until a better profit picture can be proven.

Regards,

Ken
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