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10-12-2007, 11:09 AM   #181
Sam
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I mean the remaining three months, if Pentax' words to Ben have any credibility given the fiasco of Salon de Paris.

If it proves that after three months they come out with something MAJOR as Ben mentions, and if he is talking about the new Pentax System, if I understand well, correct me if I am wrong, then it is a win-win situation; shareholders, Hoya, Pentax , the pros and us the end-users :-)

Sam

10-12-2007, 03:05 PM   #182
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I have a problem with the use of the word major. If come January, Pentax releases a new top-of-the-line camera and a couple of DA* lenses, I wouldn't call that major, I'd call it what-they-bloody-well-need-to-do.

To me, major would be the release of a complete line of high-quality lenses (5 minimum), and a revolutionary body (not simply an enhanced K10D) for $1000. Somehow, I don't see this happening.
10-12-2007, 06:43 PM   #183
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What if...

QuoteOriginally posted by karma mechanic Quote
That seems to be sufficiently cryptic to actually mean something...
What if they are hinting at a new Foveon 1.5x crop sensor that Pentax contracted and hasn't been announced yet? Assuming the same photosite density as the existing 14 MP sensor, that would make it around 15.3MP, which is indeed higher than all have suggested so far.

Isn't fun to make wild guesses and spread rumors!
10-12-2007, 10:52 PM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miserere Quote
I have a problem with the use of the word major. If come January, Pentax releases a new top-of-the-line camera and a couple of DA* lenses, I wouldn't call that major, I'd call it what-they-bloody-well-need-to-do.

To me, major would be the release of a complete line of high-quality lenses (5 minimum), and a revolutionary body (not simply an enhanced K10D) for $1000. Somehow, I don't see this happening.
You're pushing things a bit too far IMO.
But if the push out a new body D200-D300-like capabilities and innovative sensor as well as a roadmap showing 400/600mm lenses and zoom like 200-400/4 or like those.
A body like K200D/K1000D would be welcome as well.

10-13-2007, 02:23 AM   #185
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Well, things do seem to be in a state of confusion!

I love it! But I guess whatever Pentax will do, I guess there will allways be the dissatisfied!

Okay - So it's not a Foveon? But what if it's a CMOS, but NOT a Sony, what then??

Even more speculation! - Ideas anyone?
10-13-2007, 04:59 AM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
Okay - So it's not a Foveon? But what if it's a CMOS, but NOT a Sony, what then??
Unlikely that Canon is selling. Samsung would seem a likely choice, except I don't think they make any that big. So, Kodak.

But oh how I would love for it to be Fuji instead.
10-13-2007, 05:52 AM   #187
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It's a Nikon Sensor!!!

QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
Well, things do seem to be in a state of confusion!

I love it! But I guess whatever Pentax will do, I guess there will allways be the dissatisfied!

Okay - So it's not a Foveon? But what if it's a CMOS, but NOT a Sony, what then??

Even more speculation! - Ideas anyone?
Richard,

Thank you!!! Ever since we started to hear Hoya is actually going to invest money and time into the Pentax brand I have been going through the possible scenarios and your post led me to the following conclusions.

Nikon is producing their own CMOS sensors now for both the D300 and D3. If they could find an OEM buyer for either or both of these sensors it would decrease burden significantly. An extra 20,000 to 50,000 sensors a year would make a great deal of difference to them. Let's just say for the fun of it some hotshot at Hoya approached Nikon with the following proposal. He suggests to Nikon that they sell Pentax one or both of their new sensors. Hoya will take a stab at making Pentax the "Value Added" brand in the marketplace. If they do not reach the goals Hoya has set for them they will sell the division to Nikon so they can market both brands under the same department and save money. The people at Nikon happen to be Procter & Gamble marketing disciples and understand the synergy that can come from selling different brands at different price points. It's a win, win situation for both Nikon and Hoya. The only problem with this is it appears Ben has hinted at the idea the sensor Pentax is coming out with is larger than 12MPs.

You wanted some crazy predictions so let me be the first to say the new Pentax camera(cameras) will sport sensors made by Nikon.

Regards,

Ken
10-13-2007, 06:32 AM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
Well, things do seem to be in a state of confusion!

I love it! But I guess whatever Pentax will do, I guess there will allways be the dissatisfied!

Okay - So it's not a Foveon? But what if it's a CMOS, but NOT a Sony, what then??

Even more speculation! - Ideas anyone?
Mmm that smells:
  • Kodak
  • Samsung (but I doubt it)
  • Pentax (they werer reports about them making their own sensors years ago... maybe manufatured by Samsung?

Just my 2 cents.

10-14-2007, 03:09 AM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Richard,

Thank you!!! Ever since we started to hear Hoya is actually going to invest money and time into the Pentax brand I have been going through the possible scenarios and your post led me to the following conclusions.

Nikon is producing their own CMOS sensors now for both the D300 and D3. If they could find an OEM buyer for either or both of these sensors it would decrease burden significantly. An extra 20,000 to 50,000 sensors a year would make a great deal of difference to them. Let's just say for the fun of it some hotshot at Hoya approached Nikon with the following proposal. He suggests to Nikon that they sell Pentax one or both of their new sensors. Hoya will take a stab at making Pentax the "Value Added" brand in the marketplace. If they do not reach the goals Hoya has set for them they will sell the division to Nikon so they can market both brands under the same department and save money. The people at Nikon happen to be Procter & Gamble marketing disciples and understand the synergy that can come from selling different brands at different price points. It's a win, win situation for both Nikon and Hoya. The only problem with this is it appears Ben has hinted at the idea the sensor Pentax is coming out with is larger than 12MPs.

You wanted some crazy predictions so let me be the first to say the new Pentax camera(cameras) will sport sensors made by Nikon.

Regards,

Ken
Well, well!

Now that's an interesting scenario (and plausible, even if not true)!

I truthfully don't know what sensor they are going to use, but I would love it to be the one used in the D2X (which I suspect is the one used in the D300) as it's the only CMOS sensor I've seen that doesn't smear the textural detail of most of the other CMOS sensors, it also has excellent dynamics and colour retention at high ISO's. Even the sample shots from the Sony A700 have been less than impressive and have a similar "C look", which I suspect is down to their "on sensor" NR technology or processing, which I've always been against, as I feel it "throws the baby out with the bathwater".

I know that most Japanese companies have OEM links which they like to keep under wraps, so who knows? It makes one become very !

I know that new bodies have to keep coming along to attract the new buyers, as that's whst they see and think about first. But I sincerely hope they can sort out the lens supply situation and get that roadmap on it's way. To me that's a huge priority as well.
10-14-2007, 06:26 AM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
I know that new bodies have to keep coming along to attract the new buyers, as that's whst they see and think about first. But I sincerely hope they can sort out the lens supply situation and get that roadmap on it's way. To me that's a huge priority as well.
Let's look at this from a purely marketing point of view. The market has to be divided into two segments, current owners looking for additional lenses and first time DSLR buyers. The faithful can be pacified by a couple of long lenses so if Pentax announces those at PMA that's about all they have to do until spring. That segment is much smaller than the first time buyer so Pentax needs to concentrate on that segment.

Pardon me for using US prices for this but I think a percentage factor applied to other countries will produce the same results. The biggest market is at the entry level and there are two models needed. The K100D Super with a $100 rebate puts it at $370. The Canon XT is $450 and the Nikon D40 is $500. Pentax is perfectly positioned as the "Value Brand".

The Canon XTI is $595 and the Nikon D40X is $600. If you have a $100 rebate on the Pentax K100D it would sell for $600 which makes it an entry level camera even though it has better specs. Again it becomes the entry level 10mp value brand. To drive the sale of these two models Pentax "announces" the new model at PMA, available mid to late summer. This model should be speced above the Sony A700 but just under the Nikon D300 and have a list of $1,200 to $1,400. The street price will be about $1,000. That would also give an upgrade path for present K10D owners without pricing it out of their reach. If they create a kit for both of these with the 18-250 lens the "Value Brand" is even more enhanced.

The addition of a bunch of OEM accessories would round out the line to make it look like it is close to a full system. I suspect this is Pentax's game plan, or at least I hope it is.

Regards,

Ken

Last edited by regken; 10-14-2007 at 06:40 AM.
10-14-2007, 07:39 AM   #191
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I highly doubt the sensor will be by Canon, Nikon, Sony, Sigma, Fuji or Kodak.

No, the big surprise is... the new sensor will be by Stelios. It will be in the Pentax EasyCam, with matching orange lenses.

10-14-2007, 09:24 AM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote

The Canon XTI is $595 and the Nikon D40X is $600. If you have a $100 rebate on the Pentax K100D it would sell for $600 which makes it an entry level camera even though it has better specs. Again it becomes the entry level 10mp value brand. To drive the sale of these two models Pentax "announces" the new model at PMA, available mid to late summer. This model should be speced above the Sony A700 but just under the Nikon D300 and have a list of $1,200 to $1,400. The street price will be about $1,000. That would also give an upgrade path for present K10D owners without pricing it out of their reach. If they create a kit for both of these with the 18-250 lens the "Value Brand" is even more enhanced.
Ken
I agree on the scenario you listed, the only thing to consider is that the competitors prices will drop a couple of hundred dollars in three months time and the rumours that Hoya considers Pentax pricing not on par the quality of the products. I would not be surprised if Pentax with the "massive" January announcements tries to lift the brand to a more premium level. And a low cost brand are never considered premium, however a premium brand can still deliver the best bang for the bucks. Look at D300, expensive-sure! but feature wise in a different league from 40D.

/Mats
10-14-2007, 10:26 AM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
I highly doubt the sensor will be by Canon, Nikon, Sony, Sigma, Fuji or Kodak.

No, the big surprise is... the new sensor will be by Stelios. It will be in the Pentax EasyCam, with matching orange lenses.

but you would only be able to purchase the camera using your EasyCard, right?!
hahaha
10-14-2007, 11:45 AM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
Well, things do seem to be in a state of confusion!

I love it! But I guess whatever Pentax will do, I guess there will allways be the dissatisfied!

Okay - So it's not a Foveon? But what if it's a CMOS, but NOT a Sony, what then??

Even more speculation! - Ideas anyone?

OOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Richard!!!!!!!!!!
10-14-2007, 11:51 AM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Richard,

Thank you!!! Ever since we started to hear Hoya is actually going to invest money and time into the Pentax brand I have been going through the possible scenarios and your post led me to the following conclusions.

Nikon is producing their own CMOS sensors now for both the D300 and D3. If they could find an OEM buyer for either or both of these sensors it would decrease burden significantly. An extra 20,000 to 50,000 sensors a year would make a great deal of difference to them. Let's just say for the fun of it some hotshot at Hoya approached Nikon with the following proposal. He suggests to Nikon that they sell Pentax one or both of their new sensors. Hoya will take a stab at making Pentax the "Value Added" brand in the marketplace. If they do not reach the goals Hoya has set for them they will sell the division to Nikon so they can market both brands under the same department and save money. The people at Nikon happen to be Procter & Gamble marketing disciples and understand the synergy that can come from selling different brands at different price points. It's a win, win situation for both Nikon and Hoya. The only problem with this is it appears Ben has hinted at the idea the sensor Pentax is coming out with is larger than 12MPs.

You wanted some crazy predictions so let me be the first to say the new Pentax camera(cameras) will sport sensors made by Nikon.

Regards,

Ken
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