The forthcoming Pentax Mirrorless Camera

zackspeed · 02-03-2011, 06:41 AM

Mirrorless Rumors | Home
maybe interesting,maybe not.who knows

0144 · 02-03-2011, 07:02 AM

a rumor about a rumor

AlpenTak · 02-03-2011, 07:08 AM

An hour early:

Pentax mirrorless system with ultratiny sensor (5.6x crop)!

jayp · 02-03-2011, 07:11 AM

5.6x crop makes me sad, honestly why would someone choose this over one of the advanced compacts? Especially since the advanced compacts have a larger sensor and are still pocketable...

blende8 · 02-03-2011, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by jayp

5.6x crop makes me sad, honestly why would someone choose this over one of the advanced compacts? Especially since the advanced compacts have a larger sensor and are still pocketable...

Right!

Looks like they mixed this up with the Kenko camera.
At least I seriously hope so!

RMabo · 02-03-2011, 07:21 AM

Kenko and Hoya has a close connection - Kenko manufacturers the Hoya-filters.
And Tokina is part of the Kenko-group, Tokina and Pentax/Hoya are partners in lens design.

It would be logical to assume that Pentax somehow is connected with the little Kenko-camera thing. C-mount? Well, why not... Pentax has C-mount lenses.

Pentax Cosmicar, they have lots of lenses for 2/3" sensor size.

gazonk · 02-03-2011, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by jayp

5.6x crop makes me sad, honestly why would someone choose this over one of the advanced compacts? Especially since the advanced compacts have a larger sensor and are still pocketable...

Yes, that sounds like a really bad idea to me. Even 2/3" is a bit too small, I think (~4x crop).

uccemebug · 02-03-2011, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by jayp

5.6x crop makes me sad, honestly why would someone choose this over one of the advanced compacts? Especially since the advanced compacts have a larger sensor and are still pocketable...

Yeah. Better a credible WR fixed-lens body that's a step up from the W series.

5.6 crop just seems like lunacy. Surely that Kenko is a very fringe product?

(X100 keeps looking better among the options in the non-DSLR space.)

Caat · 02-03-2011, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by RMabo

Kenko and Hoya has a close connection - Kenko manufacturers the Hoya-filters.
And Tokina is part of the Kenko-group, Tokina and Pentax/Hoya are partners in lens design.

It would be logical to assume that Pentax somehow is connected with the little Kenko-camera thing. C-mount? Well, why not... Pentax has C-mount lenses.

Pentax Cosmicar, they have lots of lenses for 2/3" sensor size.

Even so how many existing Pentax C-mount lenses are going to be suitable for use with a 14mp sensor?

However I guess that an extra small sensor does two things:

- makes the camera and lesnes much smaller than m4/3s
- gives it's lenses much narrow field of view in a small package

If the image quality is good enough then the tiny size would probably appeal enough to distinguish the camera from large sensor MILCs.

Large sensor MILCs have to compete with DSLRs whereas if this really is tiny (A110 sized) then it actually doesn't have that much competition because m4/3s and Sony NEX etc are much bigger with much larger lenses. This could actually be pocketable.

The camera would also not compete directly with Pentax's own products: it is easier to differentiate DSLRs as 'serious' if your MILC doesn't use the same sized sensor.

edit: but it all depends if Pentax can source a sensor with good enough IQ characteristics to compete adequately with 4/3s - it doesn't have to be as good but not signifcantly worse.... not sure how likely this is though. The lack of depth of field control with such a tiny sensor could be mitigated using very fast lenses.

blende8 · 02-03-2011, 07:40 AM - **2 Likes**

I know what this is!

This is an attempt of mirrorlessrumors to draw Pentax out of their shell by posting so absurd a rumor, so awkward and embarrassing that Pentax has to come out and present the real thing.

Mistral75 · 02-03-2011, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by blende8

I know what this is!

This is an attempt of mirrorlessrumors to draw Pentax out of their shell by posting so absurd a rumor, so awkward and embarrassing that Pentax has to come out and present the real thing.

If this rumour is true, then "Much ado about nothing".

Art Vandelay II · 02-03-2011, 07:58 AM

Someone really need to merge these two mirrorless threads....

That aside, why would any sane person choose this POS over an Olympus XZ1? Why bother changing lenses? It doesn't matter what lens you mount on you will never have any DOF control. If the NC1 is really using a 1/2.33 size sensor what a total joke of a camera this will be. Seriously, 1/2.33? Why not just go for the gusto and use a camera phone sensor?

While I wouldn't buy one with a 2/3's size sensor either because 4/3's is the smallest sensor I will personally consider using, I could at least make a case for 2/3's for some people. However I can never make a case for a 1/2.33 size sensor under any circumstances for any reason. Ugggghhhh!

0144 · 02-03-2011, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by Art Vandelay II

It doesn't matter what lens you mount on you will never have any DOF control.

why?

just take 50mm F1.4 for FF and shrink it's image circle to 2/3". just like the first digital nikons were doing.
same DoF as with FF

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/htmls/models/digitalSLR...ilterillus.jpg

Art Vandelay II · 02-03-2011, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by 0144

just take 50mm F1.4 for FF and shrink it's image circle to 2/3". just like the first digital nikons were doing.
same DoF as with FF

Does that help with DOF? My undestanding is focal length can't be cheated. For example what you get with a 75mm f/2 with a full frame sensor would require a 50mm f/1.4 lens on APS-C:
Digital Camera Sensor Sizes: How it Influences Your Photography

Also, there is a big difference between 2/3's and 1/2.33 (2/3'a is slightly larger than 1/1.7 on the diagram below, where as 1/2.33 is roughly the same size as 1/2.5).

Image sensor format - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Caat · 02-03-2011, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Art Vandelay II

Someone really need to merge these two mirrorless threads....

That aside, why would any sane person choose this POS over an Olympus XZ1? Why bother changing lenses? It doesn't matter what lens you mount on you will never have any DOF control. If the NC1 is really using a 1/2.33 size sensor what a total joke of a camera this will be. Seriously, 1/2.33? Why not just go for the gusto and use a camera phone sensor?

While I wouldn't buy one with a 2/3's size sensor either because 4/3's is the smallest sensor I will personally consider using, I could at least make a case for 2/3's for some people. However I can never make a case for a 1/2.33 size sensor under any circumstances for any reason. Ugggghhhh!

Well except that on this camera you could mount:

1) A standard consumer style megazoom 28-300+ lens

or

2) An ultrafast 30mm equivalent lens

And not produce something absolutely huge. This would give you huge flexibility whilst also maintaining relatively tiny size versus anything else with an interchangeable lens mount.

Sure an Olympus XZ1 is an all-in-one option but this would have mutliple lenses. Are there any compacts with ultra-bright <f/1.0 prime lenses? No. The whole point would be that this camera could be an XZ1 but it could also be a Pentax X70 or it could be a unique prime-equipped compact etc etc.

That is why some might choose it over an XZ1. Now the image quality is important of course but whereas m4/3s (out) competes with compacts and bridge cameras in image quality they do not in size. This could compete potentially on both fronts.

02-03-2011, 08:02 AM	#193
0144 Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lithuania Posts: 38	Originally posted by Art Vandelay II It doesn't matter what lens you mount on you will never have any DOF control. why? just take 50mm F1.4 for FF and shrink it's image circle to 2/3". just like the first digital nikons were doing. same DoF as with FF http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/htmls/models/digitalSLR...ilterillus.jpg Last edited by 0144; 02-03-2011 at 08:04 AM. Reason: link added

02-03-2011, 08:10 AM	#194
Art Vandelay II Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 886	Originally posted by 0144 just take 50mm F1.4 for FF and shrink it's image circle to 2/3". just like the first digital nikons were doing. same DoF as with FF Does that help with DOF? My undestanding is focal length can't be cheated. For example what you get with a 75mm f/2 with a full frame sensor would require a 50mm f/1.4 lens on APS-C: Digital Camera Sensor Sizes: How it Influences Your Photography Also, there is a big difference between 2/3's and 1/2.33 (2/3'a is slightly larger than 1/1.7 on the diagram below, where as 1/2.33 is roughly the same size as 1/2.5). Image sensor format - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 02-03-2011 at 08:18 AM.

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02-03-2011, 06:41 AM	#181
zackspeed Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 527	Mirrorless Rumors \| Home maybe interesting,maybe not.who knows

02-03-2011, 07:02 AM	#182
0144 Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lithuania Posts: 38	a rumor about a rumor

02-03-2011, 07:08 AM	#183
AlpenTak Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 106	An hour early: Pentax mirrorless system with ultratiny sensor (5.6x crop)!

02-03-2011, 07:11 AM	#184
jayp Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Florida State University Posts: 30	5.6x crop makes me sad, honestly why would someone choose this over one of the advanced compacts? Especially since the advanced compacts have a larger sensor and are still pocketable...

02-03-2011, 07:15 AM	#185
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	Originally posted by jayp 5.6x crop makes me sad, honestly why would someone choose this over one of the advanced compacts? Especially since the advanced compacts have a larger sensor and are still pocketable... Right! Looks like they mixed this up with the Kenko camera. At least I seriously hope so!

02-03-2011, 07:21 AM	#186
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	Kenko and Hoya has a close connection - Kenko manufacturers the Hoya-filters. And Tokina is part of the Kenko-group, Tokina and Pentax/Hoya are partners in lens design. It would be logical to assume that Pentax somehow is connected with the little Kenko-camera thing. C-mount? Well, why not... Pentax has C-mount lenses. Pentax Cosmicar, they have lots of lenses for 2/3" sensor size.

02-03-2011, 07:29 AM	#187
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by jayp 5.6x crop makes me sad, honestly why would someone choose this over one of the advanced compacts? Especially since the advanced compacts have a larger sensor and are still pocketable... Yes, that sounds like a really bad idea to me. Even 2/3" is a bit too small, I think (~4x crop).

02-03-2011, 07:34 AM	#188
uccemebug Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	Originally posted by jayp 5.6x crop makes me sad, honestly why would someone choose this over one of the advanced compacts? Especially since the advanced compacts have a larger sensor and are still pocketable... Yeah. Better a credible WR fixed-lens body that's a step up from the W series. 5.6 crop just seems like lunacy. Surely that Kenko is a very fringe product? (X100 keeps looking better among the options in the non-DSLR space.)

02-03-2011, 07:37 AM	#189
Caat Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United Kingdom Photos: Albums Posts: 927	Originally posted by RMabo Kenko and Hoya has a close connection - Kenko manufacturers the Hoya-filters. And Tokina is part of the Kenko-group, Tokina and Pentax/Hoya are partners in lens design. It would be logical to assume that Pentax somehow is connected with the little Kenko-camera thing. C-mount? Well, why not... Pentax has C-mount lenses. Pentax Cosmicar, they have lots of lenses for 2/3" sensor size. Even so how many existing Pentax C-mount lenses are going to be suitable for use with a 14mp sensor? However I guess that an extra small sensor does two things: - makes the camera and lesnes much smaller than m4/3s - gives it's lenses much narrow field of view in a small package If the image quality is good enough then the tiny size would probably appeal enough to distinguish the camera from large sensor MILCs. Large sensor MILCs have to compete with DSLRs whereas if this really is tiny (A110 sized) then it actually doesn't have that much competition because m4/3s and Sony NEX etc are much bigger with much larger lenses. This could actually be pocketable. The camera would also not compete directly with Pentax's own products: it is easier to differentiate DSLRs as 'serious' if your MILC doesn't use the same sized sensor. edit: but it all depends if Pentax can source a sensor with good enough IQ characteristics to compete adequately with 4/3s - it doesn't have to be as good but not signifcantly worse.... not sure how likely this is though. The lack of depth of field control with such a tiny sensor could be mitigated using very fast lenses.

02-03-2011, 07:40 AM - 2 Likes	#190
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	I know what this is! This is an attempt of mirrorlessrumors to draw Pentax out of their shell by posting so absurd a rumor, so awkward and embarrassing that Pentax has to come out and present the real thing.

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02-03-2011, 07:55 AM	#191
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by blende8 I know what this is! This is an attempt of mirrorlessrumors to draw Pentax out of their shell by posting so absurd a rumor, so awkward and embarrassing that Pentax has to come out and present the real thing. If this rumour is true, then "Much ado about nothing".

02-03-2011, 07:58 AM	#192
Art Vandelay II Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 886	Someone really need to merge these two mirrorless threads.... That aside, why would any sane person choose this POS over an Olympus XZ1? Why bother changing lenses? It doesn't matter what lens you mount on you will never have any DOF control. If the NC1 is really using a 1/2.33 size sensor what a total joke of a camera this will be. Seriously, 1/2.33? Why not just go for the gusto and use a camera phone sensor? While I wouldn't buy one with a 2/3's size sensor either because 4/3's is the smallest sensor I will personally consider using, I could at least make a case for 2/3's for some people. However I can never make a case for a 1/2.33 size sensor under any circumstances for any reason. Ugggghhhh!

02-03-2011, 08:28 AM	#195
Caat Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United Kingdom Photos: Albums Posts: 927	Originally posted by Art Vandelay II Someone really need to merge these two mirrorless threads.... That aside, why would any sane person choose this POS over an Olympus XZ1? Why bother changing lenses? It doesn't matter what lens you mount on you will never have any DOF control. If the NC1 is really using a 1/2.33 size sensor what a total joke of a camera this will be. Seriously, 1/2.33? Why not just go for the gusto and use a camera phone sensor? While I wouldn't buy one with a 2/3's size sensor either because 4/3's is the smallest sensor I will personally consider using, I could at least make a case for 2/3's for some people. However I can never make a case for a 1/2.33 size sensor under any circumstances for any reason. Ugggghhhh! Well except that on this camera you could mount: 1) A standard consumer style megazoom 28-300+ lens or 2) An ultrafast 30mm equivalent lens And not produce something absolutely huge. This would give you huge flexibility whilst also maintaining relatively tiny size versus anything else with an interchangeable lens mount. Sure an Olympus XZ1 is an all-in-one option but this would have mutliple lenses. Are there any compacts with ultra-bright <f/1.0 prime lenses? No. The whole point would be that this camera could be an XZ1 but it could also be a Pentax X70 or it could be a unique prime-equipped compact etc etc. That is why some might choose it over an XZ1. Now the image quality is important of course but whereas m4/3s (out) competes with compacts and bridge cameras in image quality they do not in size. This could compete potentially on both fronts.