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01-16-2011, 02:11 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kenn100D Quote

Now the question is, will the mirroless replace the K-5 as flagship or this is between K-r.
I think it is pretty obvious that mirrorless is entry-level. It won't become flagship level for a long time to come.

Wrt its name: Whatever it is called, it won't be K-anything. After all, it's not a K-mount camera.

01-16-2011, 02:16 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
Olympus managed to fit in-body stabilization into their m4/3 bodies, so there's no reason why Pentax couldn't.
And their m4/3 bodies are ridiculously big. That's why I pointed this out.
Pentax may chose to out it to cut body size (as did Sony).
Lenses without stab can be made smaller and in marketing talk you win size.

Stupid I know...
01-16-2011, 02:36 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
a DA*60-250 may be an interesting lens with Pentax new mirrorless.
It would certinaly be intersting to look at--a big lens like that on a small mirroless camera (or more like a small mirrorless camera mounted on a big lens).

I do agree that even in the rather cryptic comments Pentax has made they see that the writing is on the wall, and they need to make a mirrorless camera. I agree with you that it's likely APS-C--Pentax has been committed to this standard for a while and seems comfortable with it (also probably less development cost/time for the camera doing this). And also, it does allow for ideal compatibility with the K-mount Pentax lenses. I think Pentax realizes that they are, even if they get into the mirrorless market, not going to be the big player, and so they would want the camera not just as a P&S upgrade for new users, but also as a side-grade (an extra body to get) for current Pentax DSLR users. And what would best attract current Pentax DSLR users to pick up the mirrorless camera is if they already had lenses they could use on it (and it is not an IQ downgrade).
01-16-2011, 02:57 PM   #34
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Whatever they do, just include a high quality EVF, two dials (one close to shutter button, one on the back, concentric to the directional pad), keep the general Pentax ergonomics, green button and all, and begin to bring a few high quality large aperture (f2 or larger) compact primes (think 24f2, 16f2.4, 40f2 and 85f1.4).

Please, no P&S without EVF ala Sony.

01-16-2011, 03:25 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Whatever they do, just include a high quality EVF, two dials (one close to shutter button, one on the back, concentric to the directional pad), keep the general Pentax ergonomics, green button and all, and begin to bring a few high quality large aperture (f2 or larger) compact primes (think 24f2, 16f2.4, 40f2 and 85f1.4).

Please, no P&S without EVF ala Sony.
I think you are about to buy a Samsung NX: 30mm f/2 already exists, 16mm f/2.4 and 85mm f/1.4 were shown at CES and should be available in July and September respectively, 35mm f/1.4 and 50mm f/1.4 are on the roadmap for next year and 24mm f/2 for 2013 .
01-16-2011, 09:48 PM   #36
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It is going to have an articulated screen, finally.
01-16-2011, 09:56 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
And their m4/3 bodies are ridiculously big. That's why I pointed this out.
Pentax may chose to out it to cut body size (as did Sony).
Lenses without stab can be made smaller and in marketing talk you win size.

Stupid I know...

Oly M43 body size is fine for me.
I went to a digital store yesterday and compared compact mirorless cameras in the market (E-PL1, GF1, Nex, NX100), played with them and shoot some pic with my own SD card.

What I found out is that Oly E-PL1 feels best in my hands.

Although Nex-5C is small, but it used the same battery as A-55, so the grip is sort of large for containing the battery itself. The grip is larger than E-PL1 but it's too short at height dimension and my little finger just have compeletely no place to put. I could only grab the camera with 2 fingers on grip.

Samsung NX100 has a weird curve on the place where there should be my middle finger, this curve pushes all my fingers downward, and make the camera in the same condition as Nex

GF1 from Pany has a tiny grip and feels the worst, I felt like grabing a box.

Oly E-PL1 size is similar to a film body, actually similar with my Me-Super, and the 14-42 zoom is smaller than Nex 18-55 when folded.

I shot photo with GF1, E-PL1 and Nex-5, GF1/E-PL1's ISO1600 is much worse than Nex ISO3200.

Actually none of them could be pocket size, the lens either limit the size(zooms), or limit what you could shoot (pencake primes).

I hope pentax camera will have a similar or better ergonomics than Oly, If pentax EVIL feels to bad in my hand, I will trade high ISO for ergonomics and buy a Oly. (Assume pentax EVIL have good high ISO performance)

BTW I am 6 feet, my hands are not quite big.
01-16-2011, 10:54 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I think you are about to buy a Samsung NX: 30mm f/2 already exists, 16mm f/2.4 and 85mm f/1.4 were shown at CES and should be available in July and September respectively, 35mm f/1.4 and 50mm f/1.4 are on the roadmap for next year and 24mm f/2 for 2013 .
Done that already!

I think they are on the right way with this camera and lens roadmap but I also think that Pentax could do it much better!

Samsung has learned a lot from Pentax but they didn't understand everything... suffice to look at their implementation of the green button... yes, it's there but no, it's not useful. They only use it as a "reset" button.

01-16-2011, 10:56 PM   #39
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I'm not buying the rumors of a Pentax mirrorless camera this year anymore. After going back and reviewing all the rumors and statements about it there is a real pattern. All the rumors saying its coming this year are from mysterious "unidentified sources". While every statement from anyone at Pentax states that they are looking at the market and have no firm plans. I'm sure they have looked into a normal me too EVIL and also a super compact digital auto 110 type camera. It seams they are leaning toward the auto 110 concept. But I don't believe they have decided to go ahead with it. I'm just speculating like everyone else but reading between the lines I'd bet its not happening. The February announcement rumor appears to be just confusion over the coming Nikon Evil, which will be announced in the next couple of months. I do hope I'm wrong, as this is the type of system I'm interested in investing into. I also hope a digital auto 110 won't be just a small sensor compact with interchangable lenses. I just can't see the point of interchangeable lenses without the quality and DOF control at least a 4/3 sensor, and preferably larger. Anyway, I'll sadly probably end up with the Nikon system because they have said it will be more pro than other systems. Everyone else is targeting the entry level market, and I want a highly portable enthusiast/pro system. I think Pentax could really dominate this sector if they would as their strengths play to the concepts ideals, but, Pentax won't take a risk and so will never return to their former market position. My only connection to Pentax is emotional, stemming from my film days shooting an sp1000 and super program, but I would still like to stick with Pentax. Here's hoping anyway.

Last edited by 1shot; 01-17-2011 at 04:53 PM.
01-16-2011, 11:04 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
And their m4/3 bodies are ridiculously big. That's why I pointed this out.
I've owned both an Olympus E-P1 and also a Sony NEX-3; as far as size goes I actually thought the Sony was too small. Lets face facts, these things are never going to be true pocket cameras. Both could fit into a pocket if I removed the lens, so with a tiny pancake attached some people may classify them as pocket cameras, but I'd rather just throw one into bag because they are simply too big to comfortably fit in a pocket (unless you're wearing cargo pants).

My own personal interest in mirrorless has as much to do with potential as it does size/weight advantages. I love composing with EVF"s and I think contrast detect AF is going to surpass phase detection in the very near future. For example, when shooting portraits face tracking is great. It's wonderful to not have to worry about fiddling around with AF points. That's just one less thing to distract me when composing.

So I'm more interested in an mirrorless cameras for the advantages they have over traditional DSLR's. Smaller size is just a bonus. Even though I know they won't do it, I'd love to see Pentax create a pro-grade mirrorless system above the K-5. If they could somehow get a global shutter working with flash sync speeds up to 1/2000 it could be the best strobist camera on the market.

Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 01-17-2011 at 12:09 AM.
01-17-2011, 02:02 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I think contrast detect AF is going to surpass phase detection in the very near future.
The problem, AFAIK, with contrast detect AF is that the camera doesn't know into which direction and how much to move the focus - instead it's more like a trial and error-process, (and educated guesses with tracking - this is my educated guess ). With phase detect AF these parameters are known and this gives a large inherit speed advantage.

Accuracy of contrast detect on the other hand may already be better than that of phase detect AF.
01-17-2011, 02:25 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by john_ven24 Quote
It would be cool if the camera had a retractable mount, this way we could still use k-mount lenses and the camera would remain compact when turned off.
Actually a nice idea.

Thinking of it, it could also be used as a built in macro tube for lenses that are made for the shorter registration distance.
01-17-2011, 03:45 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
Actually a nice idea.

Thinking of it, it could also be used as a built in macro tube for lenses that are made for the shorter registration distance.
It could be used to autofocus manual focus lenses, too.
01-17-2011, 03:47 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
And their m4/3 bodies are ridiculously big. That's why I pointed this out.
Pentax may chose to out it to cut body size (as did Sony).
Are you sure you're not thinking about Panasonic's G(H) series bodies? Those are basically exactly the same size and form factor as DSLRs, just slightly thinner (and and have no stabilization to boot). Olympus bodies are much smaller (not quite as small as a NEX, but close and not as horribly unbalanced).

Ironically, though, I much prefer the form factor of the G(H) series and Samsung's NX cameras because there's actually a halfway decent grip to hold onto. I really dislike P&S style boxy bodies, as I simply cannot figure out how to hold them to be stable (compounded by the fact that you have to hold it out away from your body). And yes, I have small hands for a guy (at least in comparison to Caucasians); my entire hand and all fingers fit quite easily onto the K-x's grip. It's less about the size of the grip, as the shape of it.

Last edited by Cannikin; 01-17-2011 at 04:05 AM.
01-17-2011, 04:24 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by 1shot Quote
I'm not buying the rumors of a Pentax mirrorless camera this year anymore. [...] But I don't believe they have decided to go ahead with it. I'm just speculating like everyone else but reading between the lines I'd bet its not happening. The February release rumor appears to be just confusion over the coming Nikon Evil [...]
That's why I created the thread. The speculations and rumors are confusing and some need to make purchase decisions. That's why I don't speculate in my OP. AFAIK, there is no February release rumor. But February will be the month where more information will be made available outside Japan and I'm sure, some of this info will make it into this thread.
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