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09-25-2011, 12:15 PM   #541
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M43 is (Was in fact ) a lifeboat for Oly and Pana. A pretty good one I agree. Still, 43 is a massive failure.

09-27-2011, 01:12 PM   #542
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
M43 is (Was in fact ) a lifeboat for Oly and Pana. A pretty good one I agree. Still, 43 is a massive failure.
Previous poster says without 4/3, there would be no m4/3 yes but you're also right in that it was an escape.

Olympus promised too much with 4/3 and delivered on very little of it. A lot of hype and flash was there at the start but little substance then they got into the protracted release cycles, mega overpriced lenses, and that led to the downward spiral. It looked like they wanted to take on the big boys Canon and Nikon but did not commit enough resources to do it.

m4/3 was just Olympus admitting defeat and bowing out of a market they could not or would not compete in.
10-03-2011, 06:43 AM   #543
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It will take FF the better part of a decade to match that industrial volume/price combination.
.
You are too funny!
10-03-2011, 09:07 AM   #544
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
That's one way to look at it.

However, when the digital "revolution" started in photography some dozen years ago, all the action was in the small sensor area.

What then has happened some six years ago was an unanticipated success of entry-level dSLRs many people upgraded to, making FT and APSC very wide-spread. And mirrorless system cameras try to carry this to a smaller package which is certainly appealing to many who did upgrade.

We're now another six years later and three things are happening at the same time now:

1. cellphone cameras replace P&S.
2. mirrorless replace/make obsolete entry-level dSLRs (Q, N1, GH, PEN, NX, NEX, X10, ...)
3. larger sensors become affordable (FF like APSC some six years ago and MF like FF some six years ago).

All three are exciting developments and will probably be complete in another six years. APSC SLRs aren't though meaning there won't be any new ones then. I may be wrong. But I don't see heavy investments anymore in the APSC SLR segment. Look what happened to FT SLRs...
I agree as usual with you, despite the fact that i hope Ricoh will push ahead Pentax's R&D for AutoFocus improvement in APS-C reflex, wich still lags behind competition.

Re. next mirrorless with Pentax, i just hope they will deem and target 24x36 sensor...
The first in place, the better in the long run...

10-05-2011, 12:38 PM   #545
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Fuji getting into mirrorless I hear. Getting crowded. Too late in the game perhaps . . .
10-05-2011, 08:56 PM   #546
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In APS-C or smallest formats, definitely...
And we all know the relative "size risk" / "compacity concept chalenge" with bigger sensors hence lenses...
11-04-2011, 04:19 PM   #547
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Methinks that even though Pentax are late in the mirrorless field, they will get sales if they can plug the unique features that they have. There are some really great features they have that make them stand-out. The movable sensor , especially with the GPS unit is a big plus for astronomy. Pentax routinely have the best low temperature performance, once again a plus for astronomy. Weather sealing is also one of the best. As to mirrorless in general, it has a lot going for it. You still get via the viewfinder the actual image, but without the noise and shake of the mirror.Something for all of us to have a good hard think about-how often do we REALLY NEED the direct via via mirror? Ironically, I find that the bigger, heavier bodies are more ergonomic-easier to grip and give balance. Perhaps the mirrorless cameras could incorporate bigger batteries and bigger SD cards for prolonged shooting in those areas which are otherwise dead space. I don't know about you, but I find battery life and storage capacity to be major issues. The old film cameras still functioned without batteries- many of us still eyeball exposures, so could function quite well without. Ah, the good old days.
11-11-2011, 09:02 AM   #548
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What I want in a camera

The camera I would like to see stems from the way I view photography. To me, photography is not a means to an end. Rather, it is an artistic form that requires precision to get good results. As a result, I tend to dislike electronic viewfinders, huge menus, gadgets like face detection, etc (and I am not old, I only 24). I am fine if the camera has these features, but I like the ability to take photos without them (i.e. please do not make the camera a gadget).

What I would like to see is a camera similar to the fuji x100, but better (hopefully there is a way to work around the patents). Build a similar hybrid viewfinder, but make it so that the photographers can manual focus with the optical viewfinder. This can be done without the expense of a rangefinder mechanism by using the live view feed from the camera lens as the second image to create an overlay on the optical viewfinder (a digital form of the rangefinder focus mechanism, which is inexpensive to implement). Other advantages of the manual focus overlay are that you could move it anywhere on the screen, whereas the normal rangefinder mechanism is stuck in the center. Supporting manual focusing in this way could make it a distinct competitor to the leica M8/9.

As far as lens mounts go, make it as small as possible (m-mount or smaller). From there, it would be easy to make a fully functioning adapter for k-mount lenses. I think it is a bit silly to put a k-mount directly on the camera, when the k-mount was designed for full frame SLRs (I am assuming the camera will be APS-C, but I would be ok with full frame for the right price).

Please do not make the body like the sony NEX. I think it is silly to place huge lenses on such a small camera. Instead, I think they should concentrate on making high quality pancake primes for the system. The can have some zooms as well, but I have never seen a small zoom for an APS-C camera. Add in a quiet shutter, manual controls, and weather sealing, and you have a camera that myself and others would purchase in an instant (I would probably get it without weather sealing as well).

Lastly, keep the price around $1,000-$1,200, with lenses around $400-$500 each. All of the technology to make this camera exists, and fuji has come close with their x100 (both in features and price point). And I think there is a substantial market for a camera/system that is small and portable, quiet, well built, excellent IQ, and most importantly provides control over depth of field. If pentax makes a model like this, I think they could at the very least create a long term niche in the market. They may even be able to put a substantial dent in canonikon DSLR sales.

11-11-2011, 09:08 AM   #549
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Fuji will be releasing a interchangeable lens mirrorless compact in 2012. It will probably be similar to the X100/X10 in style and build quality. They will probably sell boatloads of them.
11-11-2011, 12:34 PM   #550
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Isn't size reduction one of the main reasons to go mirrorless?

ok, leave big sensors in the camera just make it smaller overall.
11-11-2011, 12:38 PM   #551
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QuoteOriginally posted by jackseh Quote
Isn't size reduction one of the main reasons to go mirrorless?

ok, leave big sensors in the camera just make it smaller overall.
The X100 and the GXR are both pretty small cameras with great image quality.
11-11-2011, 01:02 PM   #552
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I was out the other day with the K-5 and the Panasonic GH2 taking photos of a black motorcycle in bright sun. When reviewing shots with the K-5, I had to shield the LCD and then squint and guess whether or not I got the exposure correct. The light changed subtly with passing clouds, so I had to do a lot of shooting-shielding-checking to make sure each shot was good.

The GH2 was surprisingly much more usable in this situation. The EVF was set to display the shot just like it would be taken, with blinkies overlaid for blown highlights and crushed shadows. And after each shot, the EVF displayed the shot I had just taken for 1 second so that I could get immediate feedback while not having to battle the bright light.

EVFs will eventually improve to the point where they are hard to distinguish from OVFs. I hope the added usability described above will be part of Pentax's EVIL plan.
11-11-2011, 02:12 PM   #553
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I was out the other day with the K-5 and the Panasonic GH2 taking photos of a black motorcycle in bright sun. When reviewing shots with the K-5, I had to shield the LCD and then squint and guess whether or not I got the exposure correct. The light changed subtly with passing clouds, so I had to do a lot of shooting-shielding-checking to make sure each shot was good.

The GH2 was surprisingly much more usable in this situation. The EVF was set to display the shot just like it would be taken, with blinkies overlaid for blown highlights and crushed shadows. And after each shot, the EVF displayed the shot I had just taken for 1 second so that I could get immediate feedback while not having to battle the bright light.

EVFs will eventually improve to the point where they are hard to distinguish from OVFs. I hope the added usability described above will be part of Pentax's EVIL plan.
I agree that EVFs are extremely useful in many circumstances, and I think a mirror-less camera would be a bit lost without one. And EVFs will continue to get better to the point where there is no lag (maybe they are there already?). The last time I looked at EVFs was when I was looking for a camera 2-3 years ago. At that time the things that annoyed me were lag, grain when the scene was dark. I think these problems have been mostly fixed.

The reason why I would like an alternative to an EVF is because I don't always want to see the world through a computer screen (I do enough of that at work). I suppose my desire for an OVF in addition to a EVF is one of preference rather than rationality. I am sure anyone could get just as good of photos from an EVF as they could a OVF. But, I would not enjoy taking them as much. So why not use a DSLR? I find their size a bit large and they are loud (at least the k200D is). And I find they do tend to produce an intimidation factor when trying to photograph people who are not used to DSLRs.
11-11-2011, 02:55 PM   #554
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QuoteOriginally posted by kswier Quote
I agree that EVFs are extremely useful in many circumstances, and I think a mirror-less camera would be a bit lost without one. And EVFs will continue to get better to the point where there is no lag (maybe they are there already?). The last time I looked at EVFs was when I was looking for a camera 2-3 years ago. At that time the things that annoyed me were lag, grain when the scene was dark. I think these problems have been mostly fixed.

The reason why I would like an alternative to an EVF is because I don't always want to see the world through a computer screen (I do enough of that at work). I suppose my desire for an OVF in addition to a EVF is one of preference rather than rationality. I am sure anyone could get just as good of photos from an EVF as they could a OVF. But, I would not enjoy taking them as much. So why not use a DSLR? I find their size a bit large and they are loud (at least the k200D is). And I find they do tend to produce an intimidation factor when trying to photograph people who are not used to DSLRs.
Fair points. When I first got my GH2, I put it up to my eye and was like, "Ewwwww". And then when I bought the K-5 and put it up to my eye it was like, "Ahhhhhhh....". But you get used to the GH2 EVF after a while and learn it's strengths and weaknesses, just like every body, lens, and gadget we purchase.
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