The forthcoming Pentax Mirrorless Camera

zackspeed · 01-24-2011, 05:57 PM

the swede · 01-26-2011, 04:17 AM

Originally posted by zackspeed

If i were you.....

I wouldnt stand it, trying to keep it down to smileys

aaronius · 01-26-2011, 10:12 PM

I read quite a few speculations that the EVIL will be using M4/3 format. If it turns out to be true, its good too as M4/3 already has a pretty good selection of lenses esp the Pancakes (Panasonic 20mm F1.7 and 15mm F2.5) which are definitely a good fit for a small compact body. Plus it might also attracts M4/3 users of other brands to switch over to Pentax because of the Pentax IQ and colours.

But I personally dun think that the EVIL will be on-par with the current KR/K5 in terms of IQ and noise-control. From what I read from the interview sometimes back. The new EVIL should be a product in between Pentax compacts and entry-level DSLRs. So I am guessing it will be much better than the compacts but still inferior to KR?

"Speaking about the current crop of mirrorless ILCs, Pound told us 'I personally would be very interested in such a product'. Pound stressed that Pentax is 'very much in tune with what is happening in the marketplace' and speaking about the current gap between Pentax's compact digital cameras and its entry-level DSLRs, he commented 'I would personally love to see a Pentax product [in that position]'."

glanglois · 01-27-2011, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by aaronius

<snip>

But I personally dun think that the EVIL will be on-par with the current KR/K5 in terms of IQ and noise-control. From what I read from the interview sometimes back. The new EVIL should be a product in between Pentax compacts and entry-level DSLRs. So I am guessing it will be much better than the compacts but still inferior to KR?

Inferior in which ways? These markets are not a straight line from bad to good. Instead, they're a series of niches. That's one reason that photographers have multiple cameras of different styles and value sets.

"Between" may not be that simple ....

timh · 01-27-2011, 06:04 AM

If their low-end 'enthusiast'-level kit doesn't offer an upgrade path (i.e. K-mount) to their higher end stuff then in a few years they'll be entirely out of the SLR business. Canon and Nikon know this too, even with their huge pro ecosystems.

**Douglas_of_Sweden** · 01-27-2011, 02:58 PM

It could stand for New Cinema.

**Fontan** · 01-27-2011, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

It could stand for New Cinema.

Don't Pentax own interesting patents with CCTV lenses that are C mount?? Maybe I am wrong.

eddie1960 · 01-27-2011, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by Fontan

Don't Pentax own interesting patents with CCTV lenses that are C mount?? Maybe I am wrong.

"Cosmicar/Pentax is a leading supplier of CCTV lenses for machine vision and video security
applications. Pentax offers one of the broadest ranges of CCTV lens products available,
including megapixel fixed focal and long-range telephoto motorized zoom lens models for
high-end surveillance requirements."
Cosmicar / Pentax CCTV Lenses for Machine Vision & Video Security

**Douglas_of_Sweden** · 01-28-2011, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by Fontan

Don't Pentax own interesting patents with CCTV lenses that are C mount?? Maybe I am wrong.

Plenty of them, nowadays labelled Pentax, previously Cosmicar.
But I'm not that sure these lenses would come out very well for other than surveilance. The are fast (I have one f=0.9), very sharp in the center, but also mostly very soft in the corners. They are not optimised in the way we are used to.

**Douglas_of_Sweden** · 01-28-2011, 04:57 AM

If this thread is open for more or less crazy ideas, I have one.
I haven't given up on a thin camera that keeps the K mount.
The problem isn't really the K mount itself, but the registration distance of 45.46mm caused even the thinnest film SLRs to be about 50mm (like MX or ME Super). With sensor, SR system and LCD todays K mount DSLRs are more like 75mm thick.

But there may be a way around this. A thin Pentax EVIL with a mirror. A fixed mirror.

If a fixed mirror is used to reflect the picture upward to a sensor placed where the focus screen are on SLRs, the registration distance will no longer determine the camera thickness. Give the mirror a good SMC coating and the picture degradation should be minimal, place it behind the shutter and the mirror will not have more dust problems than the sensor. Some advantages:
-Thinner camera body
-Include the mirror in the SR system and correct motions with both sensor and mirror. This should help cutting down the difference between in body and in lens SR.
-And with a mirror that can shift a bit thanks to the SR system, everyone of your lenses would be a shift lens.
-The DA ltds fit right on without adapter and makes this packages super small.
-All current and passed K mount lenses fit directly without adapter.

This would at least be different.

The less modest version (with interchangeable viewfinders) you can find on my blog.

Supernaut · 01-28-2011, 05:28 AM

I like your idea Douglas!

thibs · 01-28-2011, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by Supernaut

I like your idea Douglas!

Like it much as well. The only problem is... no reduction at all in lens sizes.
But very interesting nonetheless.

**Douglas_of_Sweden** · 01-28-2011, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by thibs

Like it much as well. The only problem is... no reduction at all in lens sizes.
But very interesting nonetheless.

Thanks!
Do you really need smaller lenses than say DA21ltd, DA40lt and DA70ltd?

eddie1960 · 01-28-2011, 06:12 AM

your idea is very cool Douglas It'd definitely fall under the we'll be different than everyone else category
No reason it couldn't work i can see but I'm not an engineer

thibs · 01-28-2011, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

Thanks!
Do you really need smaller lenses than say DA21ltd, DA40lt and DA70ltd?

I know, those three are indeed very small but are, compared to other mirrorless mounts, slow (for their sizes I mean)

01-28-2011, 04:57 AM	#145
Douglas_of_Sweden Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,374	If this thread is open for more or less crazy ideas, I have one. I haven't given up on a thin camera that keeps the K mount. The problem isn't really the K mount itself, but the registration distance of 45.46mm caused even the thinnest film SLRs to be about 50mm (like MX or ME Super). With sensor, SR system and LCD todays K mount DSLRs are more like 75mm thick. But there may be a way around this. A thin Pentax EVIL with a mirror. A fixed mirror. If a fixed mirror is used to reflect the picture upward to a sensor placed where the focus screen are on SLRs, the registration distance will no longer determine the camera thickness. Give the mirror a good SMC coating and the picture degradation should be minimal, place it behind the shutter and the mirror will not have more dust problems than the sensor. Some advantages: -Thinner camera body -Include the mirror in the SR system and correct motions with both sensor and mirror. This should help cutting down the difference between in body and in lens SR. -And with a mirror that can shift a bit thanks to the SR system, everyone of your lenses would be a shift lens. -The DA ltds fit right on without adapter and makes this packages super small. -All current and passed K mount lenses fit directly without adapter. This would at least be different. The less modest version (with interchangeable viewfinders) you can find on my blog. Last edited by Douglas_of_Sweden; 01-28-2011 at 05:19 AM.

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01-24-2011, 05:57 PM	#136
zackspeed Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 527

01-26-2011, 04:17 AM	#137
the swede Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,310	Originally posted by zackspeed If i were you..... I wouldnt stand it, trying to keep it down to smileys

01-26-2011, 10:12 PM	#138
aaronius Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 188	I read quite a few speculations that the EVIL will be using M4/3 format. If it turns out to be true, its good too as M4/3 already has a pretty good selection of lenses esp the Pancakes (Panasonic 20mm F1.7 and 15mm F2.5) which are definitely a good fit for a small compact body. Plus it might also attracts M4/3 users of other brands to switch over to Pentax because of the Pentax IQ and colours. But I personally dun think that the EVIL will be on-par with the current KR/K5 in terms of IQ and noise-control. From what I read from the interview sometimes back. The new EVIL should be a product in between Pentax compacts and entry-level DSLRs. So I am guessing it will be much better than the compacts but still inferior to KR? "Speaking about the current crop of mirrorless ILCs, Pound told us 'I personally would be very interested in such a product'. Pound stressed that Pentax is 'very much in tune with what is happening in the marketplace' and speaking about the current gap between Pentax's compact digital cameras and its entry-level DSLRs, he commented 'I would personally love to see a Pentax product [in that position]'."

01-27-2011, 05:46 AM	#139
glanglois Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Madison, Wis., USA Posts: 1,506	Originally posted by aaronius <snip> But I personally dun think that the EVIL will be on-par with the current KR/K5 in terms of IQ and noise-control. From what I read from the interview sometimes back. The new EVIL should be a product in between Pentax compacts and entry-level DSLRs. So I am guessing it will be much better than the compacts but still inferior to KR? Inferior in which ways? These markets are not a straight line from bad to good. Instead, they're a series of niches. That's one reason that photographers have multiple cameras of different styles and value sets. "Between" may not be that simple ....

01-27-2011, 06:04 AM	#140
timh Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wales Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 445	If their low-end 'enthusiast'-level kit doesn't offer an upgrade path (i.e. K-mount) to their higher end stuff then in a few years they'll be entirely out of the SLR business. Canon and Nikon know this too, even with their huge pro ecosystems.

01-27-2011, 02:58 PM	#141
Douglas_of_Sweden Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,374	It could stand for New Cinema.

01-27-2011, 03:46 PM	#142
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden It could stand for New Cinema. Don't Pentax own interesting patents with CCTV lenses that are C mount?? Maybe I am wrong.

01-27-2011, 06:16 PM	#143
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Fontan Don't Pentax own interesting patents with CCTV lenses that are C mount?? Maybe I am wrong. "Cosmicar/Pentax is a leading supplier of CCTV lenses for machine vision and video security applications. Pentax offers one of the broadest ranges of CCTV lens products available, including megapixel fixed focal and long-range telephoto motorized zoom lens models for high-end surveillance requirements." Cosmicar / Pentax CCTV Lenses for Machine Vision & Video Security

01-28-2011, 04:41 AM	#144
Douglas_of_Sweden Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,374	Originally posted by Fontan Don't Pentax own interesting patents with CCTV lenses that are C mount?? Maybe I am wrong. Plenty of them, nowadays labelled Pentax, previously Cosmicar. But I'm not that sure these lenses would come out very well for other than surveilance. The are fast (I have one f=0.9), very sharp in the center, but also mostly very soft in the corners. They are not optimised in the way we are used to.

01-28-2011, 05:28 AM	#146
Supernaut Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: West Coast , Sweden Posts: 467	I like your idea Douglas!

01-28-2011, 05:52 AM	#147
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Supernaut I like your idea Douglas! Like it much as well. The only problem is... no reduction at all in lens sizes. But very interesting nonetheless.

01-28-2011, 06:10 AM	#148
Douglas_of_Sweden Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,374	Originally posted by thibs Like it much as well. The only problem is... no reduction at all in lens sizes. But very interesting nonetheless. Thanks! Do you really need smaller lenses than say DA21ltd, DA40lt and DA70ltd?

01-28-2011, 06:12 AM	#149
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	your idea is very cool Douglas It'd definitely fall under the we'll be different than everyone else category No reason it couldn't work i can see but I'm not an engineer

01-28-2011, 06:54 AM	#150
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Thanks! Do you really need smaller lenses than say DA21ltd, DA40lt and DA70ltd? I know, those three are indeed very small but are, compared to other mirrorless mounts, slow (for their sizes I mean)