The forthcoming Pentax Mirrorless Camera

macTak · 02-03-2011, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by ogl

It's Kenko system. 14 Mp, 1/2.33" sensor and C-mount.

Yes, the only question is whether the rumor site got confused information, or if Pentax is taking the same tack as Kenko. When I think about it, such an offering does make some sense for Pentax. Recall the rumor that Pentax would release two mirrorless cameras--one could be this ultra-compact 110-esque camera and another could be the more expected APS-C EVIL. The Japanese (the market Pentax actually cares about) have shown a desire for small cameras, and such a small camera could be a good P&S replacement option that has the added coolness of interchangeable lenses. Plus Pentax (a.k.a. Cosmicar) has a significant number of CCTV lenses in the C-mount already, so such a mount would mean they already have experience, components, and perhaps even a existing selection of lens designs. NC-1 could stand for New C-mount 1.... You've got to love this crazy speculation

eddie1960 · 02-03-2011, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by macTak

Yes, the only question is whether the rumor site got confused information, or if Pentax is taking the same tack as Kenko. When I think about it, such an offering does make some sense for Pentax. Recall the rumor that Pentax would release two mirrorless cameras--one could be this ultra-compact 110-esque camera and another could be the more expected APS-C EVIL. The Japanese (the market Pentax actually cares about) have shown a desire for small cameras, and such a small camera could be a good P&S replacement option that has the added coolness of interchangeable lenses. Plus Pentax (a.k.a. Cosmicar) has a significant number of CCTV lenses in the C-mount already, so such a mount would mean they already have experience, components, and perhaps even a existing selection of lens designs. NC-1 could stand for New C-mount 1.... You've got to love this crazy speculation

Pretty much my exact feeling. It also gives the Kenko some brand support so it sells as well. if they are out there on their own with no other brand it will fail. slap a fancier Pentax out there and you have an entry level and upgraded model with a brand recognized for cameras
It could also develop some kind of cool hipster thing which will be great for the brand awareness in general which helps us all

RonHendriks1966 · 02-03-2011, 01:25 PM

But still why not the sensor 1/1.63 or 1/1.7 like used in LX or Samsung Ex1 that is a better and still small sensor.

Art Vandelay II · 02-03-2011, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

But still why not the sensor 1/1.63 or 1/1.7 like used in LX or Samsung Ex1 that is a better and still small sensor.

That's a question I'd love to hear an answer to myself. If someone can make a case to me why we need a sensor smaller than 2/3's or 1/1.6 I'm all ears.

Not that it will matter much to me since I don't want a small sensor camera, but I'm hoping the leak got misreported and they are really using 2/3's size sensor instead of a 1/2.3. For someone that doesn't understand fractions those two could get confused really easily. 2/3's size might actually be a pretty cool compliment to a DSLR, so I could see a use for it, but 1/2.3...that's a different story.

eddie1960 · 02-03-2011, 03:00 PM

2/3 would be very cool. the old canon power shot pro 1 was a great camera and it was 2/3. sold a ton of them when i was still in retail as it was pretty unique at the time. took good pictures had a quality lens. still to big to put in your pocket though

eurostar · 02-03-2011, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by cfraz

What am I missing?

You miss the fun aspect of the thing. It's like the Pentax 110, it was not much more than a toy camera, because as much as it was good, it was still limited by the quality of the 110 film, which was bad. The Kenko camera, costing 260 euro, like a medium level compact, allows the owner to hunt for old C-mount lenses, put the camera behind microscopes, telescopes, pinhole, at a fraction of costs, but also at a fractions of burden, of using an APS-C relfex system. It's just for playing with no serious interest in the technical quality of pictures.

Mistral75 · 02-03-2011, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

But still why not the sensor 1/1.63 or 1/1.7 like used in LX or Samsung Ex1 that is a better and still small sensor.

May be because such (existing) sensors are CCD sensors, only capable of 720p video whilst the consumers targeted by Pentax would supposedly want FullHD 1,080p vidéo, which 1/2,33" CMOS sensors do allow for?

Last edited by Mistral75; 02-03-2011 at 03:32 PM.

**Digitalis** · 02-03-2011, 03:29 PM

When They do come out with this camera, I hope they market it better than they have marketed their more recent products.

dnas · 02-03-2011, 03:49 PM

Should I state the obvious?

Pentax would have been better off using micro 4/3, with an innovative camera smaller than the Panasonic GF2.

And so much for the delights of being able to use Pentax lenses via an adapter.... even a 40mm pancake becomes too big to use on the camera.

0144 · 02-03-2011, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Art Vandelay II

Does that help with DOF? My undestanding is focal length can't be cheated. For example what you get with a 75mm f/2 with a full frame sensor would require a 50mm f/1.4 lens on APS-C:
Digital Camera Sensor Sizes: How it Influences Your Photography

Also, there is a big difference between 2/3's and 1/2.33 (2/3'a is slightly larger than 1/1.7 on the diagram below, where as 1/2.33 is roughly the same size as 1/2.5).

Yes it does, by shrinking image circle like those old nikons, you are efectively using a reverse teleconverter. so not only focal length is reduced, but aperture is increased massively.

If you shrink 50mm F1.4 image circle to a 1/2.33 sensor, you will get a 9mm F0.25 lens. however lens will be at least as large as the original 50.

DoF imho is the least of the problems. DR and noise worries me most. If at least they made a nice 6Mp sensor....

link:
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/htmls/models/digitalSLRs/E3E3s/

p.s. just an idea - they can probably make those cameras real cheap(200$ body) and make all the cash on accessories/lenses. i think they would get a lot of interest at such prices, and i see no reason why they can't make some cheap plastic models for such a price.

DaveBlack · 02-03-2011, 04:38 PM

If the rumor is true it looks like I my guess (earlier in this thread or the orther mirrorless thread) was correct in that the first mirrorless camera from Pentax is going to be an interchangeable lens small sensor mirrorless camera. I do wish that a slightly larger sensor at least in line with the Panasonic LX-5 was going to be used a modern 2/3 sesnor would be great from this super small camera.

If the rumors are right later this year an APS-C sensor mirrorless interchangable lens camera will be released. So if you don't want a super small camera with its limits in IQ then just wait until Christmas time.

Dave

**Fontan** · 02-03-2011, 04:56 PM

Since I exclusively shoot with Auto 110 (which precisely means that I don't shoot at all), maybe it is time that I switch and jump over to the realm of digital photography when this stupid thing comes out.

nosnoop · 02-03-2011, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by DaveBlack

If the rumors are right later this year an APS-C sensor mirrorless interchangable lens camera will be released. So if you don't want a super small camera with its limits in IQ then just wait until Christmas time.

Am I the only one who find it practically impossible that Pentax would market two non-compatible interchangeable lens mirrorless systems? They would have their hands full on supporting just one.

uccemebug · 02-03-2011, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by macTak

Yes, the only question is whether the rumor site got confused information

Gotta be.

Originally posted by eddie1960

It could also develop some kind of cool hipster thing which will be great for the brand awareness in general which helps us all

Yeah! Now if only there was a hipster element to Japanese society.

jayp · 02-03-2011, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by nosnoop

Am I the only one who find it practically impossible that Pentax would market two non-compatible interchangeable lens mirrorless systems? They would have their hands full on supporting just one.

Actually I think they wouldn't have a problem doing so, I would guess they would just take some of the best of their current cctv lens lineup and just rebrand it as part of the NC-1 lens lineup. In that way they would be able to devote more attention to a proper mirrorless system.

02-03-2011, 03:49 PM	#219
dnas Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Japan (Australian expat) Posts: 179	Should I state the obvious? Pentax would have been better off using micro 4/3, with an innovative camera smaller than the Panasonic GF2. And so much for the delights of being able to use Pentax lenses via an adapter.... even a 40mm pancake becomes too big to use on the camera. Last edited by dnas; 02-03-2011 at 03:55 PM.

02-03-2011, 04:20 PM	#220
0144 Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Lithuania Posts: 38	Originally posted by Art Vandelay II Does that help with DOF? My undestanding is focal length can't be cheated. For example what you get with a 75mm f/2 with a full frame sensor would require a 50mm f/1.4 lens on APS-C: Digital Camera Sensor Sizes: How it Influences Your Photography Also, there is a big difference between 2/3's and 1/2.33 (2/3'a is slightly larger than 1/1.7 on the diagram below, where as 1/2.33 is roughly the same size as 1/2.5). Yes it does, by shrinking image circle like those old nikons, you are efectively using a reverse teleconverter. so not only focal length is reduced, but aperture is increased massively. If you shrink 50mm F1.4 image circle to a 1/2.33 sensor, you will get a 9mm F0.25 lens. however lens will be at least as large as the original 50. DoF imho is the least of the problems. DR and noise worries me most. If at least they made a nice 6Mp sensor.... link: http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/htmls/models/digitalSLRs/E3E3s/ p.s. just an idea - they can probably make those cameras real cheap(200$ body) and make all the cash on accessories/lenses. i think they would get a lot of interest at such prices, and i see no reason why they can't make some cheap plastic models for such a price. Last edited by 0144; 02-04-2011 at 12:03 AM. Reason: link

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02-03-2011, 12:25 PM	#211
macTak Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 759	Originally posted by ogl It's Kenko system. 14 Mp, 1/2.33" sensor and C-mount. Yes, the only question is whether the rumor site got confused information, or if Pentax is taking the same tack as Kenko. When I think about it, such an offering does make some sense for Pentax. Recall the rumor that Pentax would release two mirrorless cameras--one could be this ultra-compact 110-esque camera and another could be the more expected APS-C EVIL. The Japanese (the market Pentax actually cares about) have shown a desire for small cameras, and such a small camera could be a good P&S replacement option that has the added coolness of interchangeable lenses. Plus Pentax (a.k.a. Cosmicar) has a significant number of CCTV lenses in the C-mount already, so such a mount would mean they already have experience, components, and perhaps even a existing selection of lens designs. NC-1 could stand for New C-mount 1.... You've got to love this crazy speculation

02-03-2011, 12:28 PM	#212
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by macTak Yes, the only question is whether the rumor site got confused information, or if Pentax is taking the same tack as Kenko. When I think about it, such an offering does make some sense for Pentax. Recall the rumor that Pentax would release two mirrorless cameras--one could be this ultra-compact 110-esque camera and another could be the more expected APS-C EVIL. The Japanese (the market Pentax actually cares about) have shown a desire for small cameras, and such a small camera could be a good P&S replacement option that has the added coolness of interchangeable lenses. Plus Pentax (a.k.a. Cosmicar) has a significant number of CCTV lenses in the C-mount already, so such a mount would mean they already have experience, components, and perhaps even a existing selection of lens designs. NC-1 could stand for New C-mount 1.... You've got to love this crazy speculation Pretty much my exact feeling. It also gives the Kenko some brand support so it sells as well. if they are out there on their own with no other brand it will fail. slap a fancier Pentax out there and you have an entry level and upgraded model with a brand recognized for cameras It could also develop some kind of cool hipster thing which will be great for the brand awareness in general which helps us all

02-03-2011, 01:25 PM	#213
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	But still why not the sensor 1/1.63 or 1/1.7 like used in LX or Samsung Ex1 that is a better and still small sensor.

02-03-2011, 02:20 PM	#214
Art Vandelay II Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 886	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 But still why not the sensor 1/1.63 or 1/1.7 like used in LX or Samsung Ex1 that is a better and still small sensor. That's a question I'd love to hear an answer to myself. If someone can make a case to me why we need a sensor smaller than 2/3's or 1/1.6 I'm all ears. Not that it will matter much to me since I don't want a small sensor camera, but I'm hoping the leak got misreported and they are really using 2/3's size sensor instead of a 1/2.3. For someone that doesn't understand fractions those two could get confused really easily. 2/3's size might actually be a pretty cool compliment to a DSLR, so I could see a use for it, but 1/2.3...that's a different story.

02-03-2011, 03:00 PM	#215
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	2/3 would be very cool. the old canon power shot pro 1 was a great camera and it was 2/3. sold a ton of them when i was still in retail as it was pretty unique at the time. took good pictures had a quality lens. still to big to put in your pocket though

02-03-2011, 03:12 PM	#216
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Originally posted by cfraz What am I missing? You miss the fun aspect of the thing. It's like the Pentax 110, it was not much more than a toy camera, because as much as it was good, it was still limited by the quality of the 110 film, which was bad. The Kenko camera, costing 260 euro, like a medium level compact, allows the owner to hunt for old C-mount lenses, put the camera behind microscopes, telescopes, pinhole, at a fraction of costs, but also at a fractions of burden, of using an APS-C relfex system. It's just for playing with no serious interest in the technical quality of pictures.

02-03-2011, 03:22 PM	#217
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,526	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 But still why not the sensor 1/1.63 or 1/1.7 like used in LX or Samsung Ex1 that is a better and still small sensor. May be because such (existing) sensors are CCD sensors, only capable of 720p video whilst the consumers targeted by Pentax would supposedly want FullHD 1,080p vidéo, which 1/2,33" CMOS sensors do allow for? Last edited by Mistral75; 02-03-2011 at 03:32 PM.

02-03-2011, 03:29 PM	#218
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	When They do come out with this camera, I hope they market it better than they have marketed their more recent products.

02-03-2011, 04:38 PM	#221
DaveBlack Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 441	If the rumor is true it looks like I my guess (earlier in this thread or the orther mirrorless thread) was correct in that the first mirrorless camera from Pentax is going to be an interchangeable lens small sensor mirrorless camera. I do wish that a slightly larger sensor at least in line with the Panasonic LX-5 was going to be used a modern 2/3 sesnor would be great from this super small camera. If the rumors are right later this year an APS-C sensor mirrorless interchangable lens camera will be released. So if you don't want a super small camera with its limits in IQ then just wait until Christmas time. Dave

02-03-2011, 04:56 PM	#222
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Since I exclusively shoot with Auto 110 (which precisely means that I don't shoot at all), maybe it is time that I switch and jump over to the realm of digital photography when this stupid thing comes out.

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02-03-2011, 05:29 PM	#223
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by DaveBlack If the rumors are right later this year an APS-C sensor mirrorless interchangable lens camera will be released. So if you don't want a super small camera with its limits in IQ then just wait until Christmas time. Am I the only one who find it practically impossible that Pentax would market two non-compatible interchangeable lens mirrorless systems? They would have their hands full on supporting just one.

02-03-2011, 07:03 PM	#224
uccemebug Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	Originally posted by macTak Yes, the only question is whether the rumor site got confused information Gotta be. Originally posted by eddie1960 It could also develop some kind of cool hipster thing which will be great for the brand awareness in general which helps us all Yeah! Now if only there was a hipster element to Japanese society.

02-03-2011, 07:22 PM	#225
jayp Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Florida State University Posts: 30	Originally posted by nosnoop Am I the only one who find it practically impossible that Pentax would market two non-compatible interchangeable lens mirrorless systems? They would have their hands full on supporting just one. Actually I think they wouldn't have a problem doing so, I would guess they would just take some of the best of their current cctv lens lineup and just rebrand it as part of the NC-1 lens lineup. In that way they would be able to devote more attention to a proper mirrorless system.