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01-19-2011, 11:03 PM   #31
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I'd like to see Pentax offer up the first EVIL with open source firmware.

Then we could see people develope apps for the camera, just as we see with the iphone, and android phones.

They might even include the ability for these cameras to "talk" to each other either through the IR conection the K-r uses, or bluetooth.

Then people could trade aps, settings, image filters, custom settings, games etc directly camera to camera.

But what ever pentax comes out with, I expect it will be in the same vein as the colourfull K-mxr's. Fun fasionable cameras that match the photographers belt and shoes.

01-20-2011, 06:27 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
But what ever pentax comes out with, I expect it will be in the same vein as the colourfull K-mxr's. Fun fasionable cameras that match the photographers belt and shoes.
This is likely to be the "something no-one else is doing" they talked about. It is in the SLR world
though if the Kr is as successful aas the Kx I imagine we will see some imitators (and Oly already has 2 colours on the EP's)
01-22-2011, 08:53 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I'd like to see Pentax offer up the first EVIL with open source firmware.

Then we could see people develope apps for the camera, just as we see with the iphone, and android phones.
I've heard other people talk about camera apps, but I don't see how they are worth the cost and risk. Apps make sense for phones and tablets because nowadays they are general purpose computing platforms, and they have largish displays, touch-screens and keyboards. I don't see cameras in that role; they aren't suited to it physically.

If that's what you want, get a smart phone with a camera built-in. Stand-along cameras are more dedicated to photography. The only apps which really make sense are photography ones. I don't think there's an unbounded number of those. There's a limit to what I want to do on-camera, as opposed to downloading the photos to a PC (or tablet) and manipulating them there.

Again, it sort-of works for smart phones because you can take a picture, tweak it, then upload it directly to Facebook or whatever, without ever touching a PC. That doesn't work for a camera unless it has wifi or similar, and even then if that's what you want to do you don't much care about the image quality and you do care about the size.

It's an obvious idea, and someone may try it, but I don't think what works on a smart phone will translate to working on a dedicated camera.

I would like to see better ways of getting images out of the camera and into a tablet, and that probably means using micro-SD instead of full-sized SD.
01-22-2011, 09:40 AM   #34
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But what about applications that take in the raw output of the camera and let you manipulate it? Instead of having only the camera maker jpg engine, you could have as many as the memory allocated for them could let. Instead of choosing raw developer to install on your PC, you could do it for your camera.

And also applications that take control of the camera to make focus stacks making the camera on tripod perform a series of shots each one with a different step of focus, then combines it and output a single exposure wth very extended depth of field. The same could be for HDR, BW, better handling of noise reduction... endless possibility.

01-22-2011, 12:30 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by eurostar Quote
But what about applications that take in the raw output of the camera and let you manipulate it? Instead of having only the camera maker jpg engine, you could have as many as the memory allocated for them could let. Instead of choosing raw developer to install on your PC, you could do it for your camera.

And also applications that take control of the camera to make focus stacks making the camera on tripod perform a series of shots each one with a different step of focus, then combines it and output a single exposure wth very extended depth of field. The same could be for HDR, BW, better handling of noise reduction... endless possibility.
Why is the camera a better place to do these types of things than the computer? What if you want something more than an 8 bit jpeg? Can the processors and memory handle 16 or 32 bit uncompressed files, and can they do it better and/or faster than my PC? Whose gonna write the software and is the interface gonna be as good as a commercial application? Is there gonna be an "app store", and if so who is going to build the infrastructure and host everything in a single place. Phones had "apps" long before the iphone, but the masses didn't bother with them because they're not dead simple to find, install, and use. Anyway, these are the questions that come to mind when I hear about open source applications on a camera.

Last edited by Vertex Ninja; 01-22-2011 at 05:46 PM.
01-22-2011, 05:38 PM   #36
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Apps could be useful:
focus bracketing
hyperfocal calculation etc
01-22-2011, 10:13 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Apps could be useful:
focus bracketing
hyperfocal calculation etc
Good ones. Also:

customized intervalometer
panoramic stitching
GPS/Geotracking
EXIF editing/copywriting
etc...

Also, the idea of apps is distinct and different than the idea of Open Source. Open Source gets you closer to the silicon, so to speak, with enterprising individuals modifying things like the AF algorithms to suit their specific needs.
01-23-2011, 04:14 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I'd like to see Pentax offer up the first EVIL with open source firmware.

Then we could see people develope apps for the camera, just as we see with the iphone, and android phones.

They might even include the ability for these cameras to "talk" to each other either through the IR conection the K-r uses, or bluetooth.

Then people could trade aps, settings, image filters, custom settings, games etc directly camera to camera.

But what ever pentax comes out with, I expect it will be in the same vein as the colourfull K-mxr's. Fun fasionable cameras that match the photographers belt and shoes.
I think that could actually be quite successful. For me, this would be great and I think that lots of geeks would buy it (they all buy the newest gadgets and the more they are able to play around with it the more interesting it is for them/us).
Also: imagine all the digital filters and other nice stuff that would be programmed within a short time...

01-23-2011, 09:16 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Also, the idea of apps is distinct and different than the idea of Open Source. Open Source gets you closer to the silicon, so to speak, with enterprising individuals modifying things like the AF algorithms to suit their specific needs.
True, but there are open source applications too. I get what you mean though; some people are talking about the actual firmware, and some are talking about add on applications. I think some of these ideas sound useful, but I wonder how Pentax would support them. I mean, with an SDK, etc. The support costs would have to be rolled into the camera. They would also have to create a new, more advanced OS to run these apps in the first place.

Maybe a more cost effective idea would be, to create some hooks in the firmware that allow an external source to have more control. Almost everyone has a mobile phone these days... make apps for the phone that interface more tightly with the camera. Pentax could have their own branded iPhone, Android, etc. app, but the hooks would be in the camera for others to build from too. Pentax then wouldn't need to build an "app" store or support the camera's OS. Future camera's could also have these "hooks" and use the same applications.

These could all be done via a phone plugged into the USB of the camera... or better yet, bluetooth!
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
customized intervalometer
GPS/Geotracking
EXIF editing/copywriting
01-23-2011, 09:48 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vertex Ninja Quote
True, but there are open source applications too. I get what you mean though; some people are talking about the actual firmware, and some are talking about add on applications. I think some of these ideas sound useful, but I wonder how Pentax would support them. I mean, with an SDK, etc. The support costs would have to be rolled into the camera. They would also have to create a new, more advanced OS to run these apps in the first place.

Maybe a more cost effective idea would be, to create some hooks in the firmware that allow an external source to have more control. Almost everyone has a mobile phone these days... make apps for the phone that interface more tightly with the camera. Pentax could have their own branded iPhone, Android, etc. app, but the hooks would be in the camera for others to build from too. Pentax then wouldn't need to build an "app" store or support the camera's OS. Future camera's could also have these "hooks" and use the same applications.

These could all be done via a phone plugged into the USB of the camera... or better yet, bluetooth!
Agreed. All that's needed is an API that allows external control of the basic camera functions - shutter, aperture, ISO, focus. I've heard some chatter this is already built into the camera for QC and diagnostics. All Pentax has to do is open it up to a development community.
01-23-2011, 09:54 AM   #41
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Should make reverse-engineering easier for Canon, Nikon, et al.
01-23-2011, 10:37 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Should make reverse-engineering easier for Canon, Nikon, et al.
And that's exactly the reason why nobody's done it. On the other hand, open source efforts have helped smaller players in other industries make a much larger impact than their size suggests - Linux, OpenOffice, GIMP, etc... - not household names but surprising good and well-supported for free stuff.

And really, I don't think Nikon or Canon is interested in reverse-engineering Pentax's AF algorithms
01-23-2011, 10:59 AM   #43
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Open source firmware likely won't ever happen, but the other manufacturers already offer more external control than Pentax. Opening up simple things will not hurt them anymore than it's hurt the other guys.

They get things like this: DSLR Camera Remote - onOne Software
01-23-2011, 03:34 PM   #44
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I think that releasing an SDK for cameras would be a home run for Pentax
open source would be great ... the cameras would be worth more because they would not only have the support of Pentax through firmwares but also from the community ... it would be possible for people like gordonBgood to implement his k20d banding problem solution directly into the camera
01-23-2011, 09:03 PM   #45
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Not all apps need to be serious. Some could be just for fun.

The app I'd introduce, (if I had the programing skill) would be a pentax film camera simulator.

The camera would start off with the features of a Pentax S3, so no meter & manual focus. The camera would not have any ability to chimp. You would need to "load" a role of film every 36 shots. This would involve some key presses, and winding the film with rear e-dial. If you did it wrong, you would not expose the "film". After every shot you would advanc the film with the e-dial. After 36 shots, you need to "reload" the camera. The shots on the first "role" would not be available until they were "developed", so you would need to wait a day before you open them on your computer.

You start with a roles of Tri-x 400. So all you shoots look like Tri-x 400. As you develope roles of film, you earn points that can be used to "buy" the next camera model (a spotmatic, so now you have a meter), or new film types (kodachrome maybe), or if you save enough points, you can buy a one hour photolab, so now you don't need to wait a day to see your shots.

Eventually, you might earn enough points that you have your camera of you dreams, say an MZ-S, along with matrix metering, auto focus, and 2.5 frames per secound.

Sounds like fun to me.
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