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02-11-2011, 09:42 AM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by Regular guy Quote
I get the feeling that the true pros and artists don't get why we want smaller system cameras.
You'd be surprised on that one. Henri Cartier-Bresson is the most obvious example, but Terry Richardson also prefers small cameras. I've also read that Annie Leibovitz likes small cameras. I'm sure there are many others.

The problem is in the film days people like them (as well as myself) had a number of small cameras to choose from. I didn't have to shoot with a bulky camera like a Nikon F5 to get great image quality. A tiny SLR like a Nikon FE or Pentax LX could produce the same quality. Camera makers have seemed to have forgotten that not all photographers like large SLR's. A number of pros chose the smaller Nikon F3 over the newer and larger F4. Even a "small" DSLR like a Pentax K-5 still isn't in the same league as an Olympus OM as far as size/bulk goes.

If Pentax or someone would make a digital "Pentax ME Super" DSLR that would surely get my attention, especially if it's full frame, but unless someone makes something like that then I'm done with DSLR's. For what I do they simply offer no advantages.


Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 02-11-2011 at 09:48 AM.
02-11-2011, 09:53 AM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
If Pentax or someone would make a digital "Pentax ME Super" DSLR that would surely get my attention, especially if it's full frame, but unless someone makes something like that then I'm done with DSLR's. For what I do they simply offer no advantages.
Digital Mx for me would be ideal. form and function is great on the mx, a digital SV would be nice as well.

not to mention a digital rangefinder that costs less than more than a months salary would be nice as well (the reason of course everyone is so hot on the Fuji x100)
02-11-2011, 10:17 AM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by Regular guy Quote
As far as people like me are concerned, whether the camera has a mirror is irrelevant. The size and ergonomics are key, along with image quality.
Agreed! I mean, that's really it in a nutshell. I don't think it matters how much experience you have or what sort of photography you like to do. I've been shooting with SLR-form cameras for over twenty years (p&s for thirty+; rangefinders & TLR for five...) and I have nothing to add to what you just said.

QuoteOriginally posted by Regular guy Quote
I am relatively new here,
Welcome aboard.
02-11-2011, 12:08 PM   #274
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While on the topic of small unassuming cameras here is a nice article about a solider in Afghanistan taking photos with is iPhone instead of his 5D Mk II:
Finding the Right Tool to Tell a War Story: Damon Winter in Afghanistan - NYTimes.com

Aside from not wanting to carry a 5lb camera around all day the reason I hear most often from street photographers for choosing small cameras is because people either don't care or don't notice a small camera, but if they start taking pics with a 5D Mk II with a 24-70mm lens virtually everyone within half a block turns and looks. I think the same can be true in studio situations. I actually liked doing studio shots with my Canon G10. You just sit there and look at the person and occasionally take a photo instead of hiding behind a massive camera. I know I'd be more comfortable if I were the model and a person was using some tiny unassuming camera opposed to something like the Nikon D3x.

02-11-2011, 02:24 PM   #275
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Thanks for the kind words everyone. I have been debating between Panasonic and Olympus for too long. I like the ergonomics of the GF1, but prefer Olympus jpeg images and IBIS. And neither company will make what a lot of people say they want - that kind of camera with a built-in EVF.

Personally, that is the biggest issue to me. I hate taking pictures with the LCD. It doesn't feel right and I don't feel like have the same control. Part of it is the isolation of the image and the elimination of background when I am using a viewfinder (optical or electronic). I suspect that this is equally if not more true of people who are used to an SLR.

I did not even think about Pentax until my wife commented on how much she liked her old Pentax film SLR. So I started looking, and I was disappointed not to find a m43 equivalent, but delighted to see how compact the DSLRs are. And they just feel right in the hands. The K-r is actually marginally smaller that the GH2 and the K-5 is only 10% larger (size, not weight). So that tells me Pentax could make a great smaller system camera. I hope that they do. If they created a mirrorless K-r and K-5, it would fill the bill with just a few modifications.

So now I am going to wait and see what Pentax does. The 110 equivalent looks too small, but maybe it will be OK, and maybe there will be an alternative. I have really enjoyed my time browsing this site and following the discussions. I have learned a lot, and even the disagreements here are less snarky that other forums. Maybe Pentax people are different.

Pentax, if you are listening, World Pentax Day would be a very good time to announce the new cameras.
02-12-2011, 12:13 AM   #276
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Regular guy, I think the m43 rangefinder-style camera with built in EVF will come. There are numerous rumors saying that it will. Panasonic already built a camera of that format in the LC1, so surely it is on the table.

That being said, you get used to not having a VF and just using the LCD. Took me about 2 weeks.

Last edited by juu; 02-12-2011 at 12:38 AM.
02-13-2011, 08:36 AM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
That being said, you get used to not having a VF and just using the LCD. Took me about 2 weeks.
I've found that rear LCD only doesn't bother me for a month or two, but sooner or later I get tired of shooting without a view finder and sell the camera. I sold both both with my E-P1 and my NEX-3 after a few months due to lack of EVF (also lack of a hot shoe in the case of the NEX-3). Manufactures also need to realize an add-on EVF is not a solution to those of us that use strobes.
02-13-2011, 10:13 AM   #278
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I've lasted a year without a VF. Nevertheless my next m43 body will either have a built-in VF or an add-on one. I don't want to buy the DMW-LVF1 though as I think the next ones will be a lot better.

02-14-2011, 04:30 AM   #279
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The Olympus VF-2 is quite good if expensive. It's probably not practical if you are a flash user. For manual focus using older lenses it's really good.
02-14-2011, 06:06 PM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I've found that rear LCD only doesn't bother me for a month or two, but sooner or later I get tired of shooting without a view finder and sell the camera. I sold both both with my E-P1 and my NEX-3 after a few months due to lack of EVF (also lack of a hot shoe in the case of the NEX-3). Manufactures also need to realize an add-on EVF is not a solution to those of us that use strobes.
That's the beauty of the E-pl1 - off-camera wireless support via built in flash. Not that I've actually used it yet....
02-14-2011, 08:36 PM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
That's the beauty of the E-pl1 - off-camera wireless support via built in flash. Not that I've actually used it yet....
There are a limited number of situations where control via flash is going to work well. Keeping the hotshoe free (and not having the VF as a separate item to break/lose/forget) is more flexible.

Fuji X100 FTW.
02-15-2011, 01:23 AM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
There are a limited number of situations where control via flash is going to work well.
I totally disagree with you. Almost all my indoor flash photos use off camera flash(es). And if it works as well as Pentax P-TTL, I am happy.

In fact, off camera flash control with built-in flash is one of my top list of features I want for my mirrorless. And sadly, only Olympus is offering it so far. I rest my hopes on Pentax, Nikon and Canon to give me more choices.
02-15-2011, 06:50 AM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
I totally disagree with you. Almost all my indoor flash photos use off camera flash(es). And if it works as well as Pentax P-TTL, I am happy.

In fact, off camera flash control with built-in flash is one of my top list of features I want for my mirrorless. And sadly, only Olympus is offering it so far. I rest my hopes on Pentax, Nikon and Canon to give me more choices.
Almost every shot I make these days uses artificial light. And after lots of frustration with trying to use optical triggering, I went to RF triggers and never looked back. Optical control of the off camera flash is iffy at best for most people, and mostly useless in almost any high ambient situation in my experience. And usage outdoors is hopeless. That's much more limiting than my remotes, which pretty much just work. If optical works for you, then you have better luck with it than most. That's pretty much why RF triggers are popular. So making one choose between an VF and use of radio triggers kind of makes the camera pointless. Of course, in a perfect world, Pentax could build P-TTL RF control into the camera and a new flash and leapfrog everyone, but that would be too close to actual innovation, so it could never happen. Or Pentax would have enough market share that the company that makes Radio Poppers (allegedly runner by a Pentax user) would make P-TTL compatible triggers.

And which is why I can't state enough how excited I am about the X100. Hot shoe + leaf shutter = Really easy dramatic flash effects without needing tons of flash power or a dedicated strobe. Overpowering daylight with a single hot shoe flash whenever you feel like it. Roll extremely light, but still able to much quality images. This is the kind of camera I've wanted from Pentax, instead of small sensor toy crap.
02-15-2011, 08:44 AM   #284
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Yep, like others said RF is the way to go. I just got a set of the new Cactus V5's and they are absolutely great. Here's an thought, why not including in RF transmitter in the body then supply a small antenna that can slide into an accessory port or hot shoe to extend the range?

One of the things I like about mirrorless cameras so much is the fact that it is a clean slate. DSLR's have always felt like retrofitted cameras from the film era to me (probably because that's what they are), especially with Canikon and their refusal to use sensor stabilization. In-lens was obviously the only option in the film era, but that era is long gone. These archaic flash systems are similar to me. Companies don't seem to realize that cameras now have 3" VGA screens on the back. I would love to have a built in RF system with touch screen interface to remotely control the power of each strobe. Strobes should also have built-in RF receivers. There is no longer a reason to use a commander like the Nikon SU-800. A built-in touch screen RF-TTL system is long past due.

Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 02-15-2011 at 08:51 AM.
02-17-2011, 01:04 AM   #285
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And another interesting, older (from 20 January) rumour, somewhat related to the topic:

Pentax rumoured to make m43 lenses for Tokina

P.S. Bah, I realized I have bumped two threads by accident. Sorry about that. Meant to post both rumours in the same thread.

Last edited by juu; 02-17-2011 at 01:15 AM.
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