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02-17-2011, 07:57 AM   #286
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These two mirrorless threads should really be merged. The same conversation with most of the same people is taking place in both.

02-17-2011, 09:02 AM   #287
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I agree. Would be the best option IMO
02-17-2011, 01:58 PM   #288
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Michael Reichmann of Luminous Landscape (who I hope needs no introduction) revisits the GH2, including a discussion of "good enough" (which we have beaten to death in this thread).

His conclusion?

It is good enough for him.

QuoteQuote:
Do you regularly print your work at 20X24" or larger? Great, then you should be using at least a 24MP camera and likely medium format. Smaller? Then, unless you're pixel peeping, the difference between APS-C and MFT is de minimus.

Last edited by juu; 02-17-2011 at 02:33 PM.
02-17-2011, 05:10 PM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
Michael Reichmann of Luminous Landscape (who I hope needs no introduction) revisits the GH2, including a discussion of "good enough" (which we have beaten to death in this thread).

His conclusion?

It is good enough for him.
If m43 cameras were smaller than the APS-C ones there would be an advantage but just like with 43, the camera with the smaller sensor is just as big as the others.

02-17-2011, 05:12 PM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
Michael Reichmann of Luminous Landscape (who I hope needs no introduction) revisits the GH2, including a discussion of "good enough" (which we have beaten to death in this thread).

His conclusion?

It is good enough for him.
Exactly.

As a person who regularly prints on Red River Polar Metallic or Aurora Art Natural 13 x 19 I can't see a difference between the K5 and the E-P2. That said I print the E-P2 shots at 12 x 16 and the K 5 shots at 12 X 18. BTW- in a shamless plug, Red River paper is very good.

I am very fond of the Olympus 6 x 6 crop frame which works extremely well with the 12 x 12 Red River papers.

I do think the Panasonic lenses are better than the Olympus equivalent.
02-17-2011, 05:16 PM   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by wjjstu Quote
If m43 cameras were smaller than the APS-C ones there would be an advantage but just like with 43, the camera with the smaller sensor is just as big as the others.
I'm not sure if this has to do with m4/3 but one other nice thing about the E-P2 is the backward compatibility of virtually any lens. Perhaps it's the same on ASPC mirrorless? I haven't tried the NEX so I don't know.

I think the point is that it's irrelevant at that print size whether it's M 4/3 or ASPC. So what difference would it make what size the sensor is? If you are making larger prints then yes the sensor size will make a difference.
02-17-2011, 05:33 PM   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
So what difference would it make what size the sensor is?
dynamic range and low light performance
the EP-2 is nice, but I don't see someone using it @ ISO 3200 without hesitation (or 6400 for that matter)
02-18-2011, 12:13 AM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by wjjstu Quote
If m43 cameras were smaller than the APS-C ones there would be an advantage but just like with 43, the camera with the smaller sensor is just as big as the others.
I'm pretty sure that m43 cameras CAN be smaller than APS-C ones (the fact that they aren't so far is either because of ergonomics, or because Sony is better at miniaturization of camera bodies than Panasonic/Olympus).

But they key thing is, how large /heavy the lenses are. And there are not enough data points to be sure right now (simply because NEX doesn't have enough lenses), but it seems lenses of comparable quality are smaller / lighter in the case of m43.

Which seems logical, given they have to cover slightly less area.

QuoteOriginally posted by dankoBanana Quote
the EP-2 is nice, but I don't see someone using it @ ISO 3200 without hesitation (or 6400 for that matter)
Again, that seems more of a property of EP-2, rather than m43 as such. It is simply using an old sensor (from 2008). The G3 will come out with a new generation of the sensor, and we'll see what it can do. Olympus has probably also procured a different sensor for EP-3.

02-18-2011, 02:38 AM   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
Again, that seems more of a property of EP-2, rather than m43 as such. It is simply using an old sensor (from 2008). The G3 will come out with a new generation of the sensor, and we'll see what it can do. Olympus has probably also procured a different sensor for EP-3.
we shall see
02-18-2011, 04:07 AM   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I've found that rear LCD only doesn't bother me for a month or two, but sooner or later I get tired of shooting without a view finder and sell the camera. I sold both both with my E-P1 and my NEX-3 after a few months due to lack of EVF (also lack of a hot shoe in the case of the NEX-3). Manufactures also need to realize an add-on EVF is not a solution to those of us that use strobes.
When I was looking for a small camera to have with me, I wanted a viewfinder because it's hard to hold a camera out in front of you steady plus I would need my reading glasses. I didn't like the way the sony or oly felt and the panasonic cost too much for me. After seeing a great deal on a nx-10 and seeing the sample images on the IR comparometer at the iso's I usually use (100 or 200) I got one and have been very happy with it and the 30mm f2 lens. I think if the pentax has a smaller sensor a lot of people would rather have a G-11.
02-18-2011, 07:17 AM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by borno Quote
I think if the pentax has a smaller sensor a lot of people would rather have a G-11.
It's a fair comparison. That Gx series really offers a lot for an enthusiast, and was clearly designed that way. Relatively portable, not an insane number of MP or over-ambitious lens. Lots of modern goodies... And two very useful manual control dials on top.



I do hope for their sake that Hoya produces something as well thought-out.
02-18-2011, 07:30 AM   #297
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I have no interest in an EVIL camera no matter the sensor size, even if it was full frame, and especially if it used a dead format like 4/3rds.
02-18-2011, 08:57 AM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by aragondina Quote
I have no interest in an EVIL camera no matter the sensor size, even if it was full frame, and especially if it used a dead format like 4/3rds.
It's a bit odd that you felt the urge to read this thread and post a response then.

I'm also not exactly sure why you think m4/3's is a dead format, it is certainly more appealing to me than a 2.5x sensor, and in some ways it appeals to me even more than APS-C. I do value small size after all; and if 4/3's IQ is good enough (which it is), then I imagine a good number of people will choose m4/3's over APS-C solutions simply because the lenses are smaller.

Oh, and one more thing, the Panasonic GF2 is the 3rd best selling interchangeable lens camera in Japan right now. Only the Canon Rebel/Kiss is selling better there.
02-18-2011, 09:15 AM   #299
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Yeah, the GF2 is selling really well in Japan.White GF2 at #3, NEX5 at #10, the rest of top 10 taken up by Canikon:
BCN camera rankings

And I'm quite puzzled by the Amazon UK sales numbers, they are either wrong, or m43 is outselling NEX by a huge margin:
Amazon.co.uk Electronics Bestsellers: The most popular items on Amazon.co.uk (Updated hourly)

In other semi related news, some guy writes a very long article about the future of mirrorless here:
If 2010 is Micro FourThirds' Year, 2011 is the Year of Olympus - Zone-10 - Beyond the Light

I don't think the picture he paints is fully accurate, but then neither is the reverse which has often been claimed in this thread.
02-18-2011, 10:27 AM   #300
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I excited about this one.
but pentax please give us good IQ not a toy camera
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