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05-16-2011, 08:21 AM   #586
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G3 Review - Conclusion | PhotographyBLOG

They are not going to be able to keep these in stock here in the US. When one looks at this camera and the X100 it's hard to see how Pentax can afford to avoid this market segment which is growing.
I agree. The G3 really does look like a true "Canon Rebel" killer. It's smaller, lighter, better made, has smaller lenses, the IQ looks good, and P&S upgraders will love shooting live view with the rotating LCD screen. I already know two "non-photographers" that plan on getting one. The simple fact is most of those users don't care about optical view finders. On top of that, IMO the EVF in the G3 is actually preferred to APS-C OVF's. The G3's EVF is larger, brighter, and has true DOF preview.

I really have enjoyed my G1 a lot, and the G3 seems to have addressed all the issues I have with the G1. Unless someone comes out with something better in June I'll be purchasing one myself to replace my G1. Pentax really needs to get on the ball with their CSC before too many people buy into other systems. My Pentax LX may very well be the last SLR I own.


Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 05-17-2011 at 07:26 PM. Reason: Typo
05-16-2011, 08:50 AM   #587
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I agree. The G3 really does look like a true "Canon Rebel" killer.
And good riddance.

But something else has occurred to me. These CSC's might wind up in a position much like the netbook.

With the netbook, it was players like Asus and Acer-outside of the mainstream list of "classic" laptop makers-who disrupted the market with the small and light and good enough netbook. But then it was a traditional manufacturer that looked at the what the netbook solution offered and trumped the netbook with a next leap in products. Apple introduced the Macbook Air and the iPad. The iPad works because it offers the size and convenience but delivers far more utility and appeal at the same time. The Macbook Air offers a similar size solution but packs more horsepower in a much better-built product. Yes, they're twice the price of a netbook; but the iPad already offers the lower-price solution. Having had my first netbook die after two years I'm leery about buying another. And watching netbook sales slump while Apple's sales take off, I think the market agrees.

Perhaps one of the traditional camera manufacturers will respond to the CSC challenge by producing a DSLR that offers what the CSC's don't.

Of course:
a) I don't know if there's anything applicable between the laptop market and the camera market.
b) I did buy a netbook when they came out. And I'm very interested in these CSC's.
05-16-2011, 03:32 PM   #588
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I agree. The G3 really does look like a true "Canon Rebel" killer. It's smaller, lighter, better made, has smaller lenses, the IQ looks good, and P&S upgraders will love shooting live view with the rotating LCD screen. I already know two "non-photographers" that plan on getting one. The simple fact is most of those users don't care about optical view finders. On top of that, IMO the EVF in the G3 is actually preferred to APS-C OVF's. The G3's EVF is larger, brighter, and has true DOF preview.

I really have enjoyed my G1 a lot, and the G3 seems to have addressed all the issues I have with the G1. Unless someone comes out with something better in June I'll be purchasing one myself to replace my G1. Pentax really needs to get on the ball with their CSC before too many people buy into other systems. My Pentax LX may very well be the last DSLR I own.
Olympus is all set to announce a 12mm F2.0 and apparently a fast portrait lens shortly. See:

Two Olympus Lenses Coming Soon: 12mm f/2 Pro Grade Lens and a Portrait Lens? - Micro Four Thirds User Forum

I really want to get the G3 but I may hold off to see what Olympus new Pen body has since they have in body stabilization. Speculation (and it's just that) is that it will have a new sensor and a built in viewfinder. I agree with Steve Huff that the Olympus external EVF is the best one right now but I much prefer the built in one on the Panasonic cameras for ease of use.

DP review has a side by side with a Canon Rebel here. The top down shot is quite interesting:

Panasonic DMC G3 Preview: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

They are going to sell a lot of these cameras. Adorama has the body only for $599 on pre-order. I'm having a hard time not getting in the queue on this one.
05-16-2011, 05:33 PM   #589
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
Olympus is all set to announce a 12mm F2.0 and apparently a fast portrait lens shortly. See:

Two Olympus Lenses Coming Soon: 12mm f/2 Pro Grade Lens and a Portrait Lens? - Micro Four Thirds User Forum

I really want to get the G3 but I may hold off to see what Olympus new Pen body has since they have in body stabilization. Speculation (and it's just that) is that it will have a new sensor and a built in viewfinder. I agree with Steve Huff that the Olympus external EVF is the best one right now but I much prefer the built in one on the Panasonic cameras for ease of use.

DP review has a side by side with a Canon Rebel here. The top down shot is quite interesting:

Panasonic DMC G3 Preview: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

They are going to sell a lot of these cameras. Adorama has the body only for $599 on pre-order. I'm having a hard time not getting in the queue on this one.

If Olympus does come out with a 12mm f2.0, it will be the first Olympus of the high-end lenses for m-4/3 cameras. One would expect a new camera to match with up a high-end lens. With the EPL-2 selling well and the EP-2 being kind of old. I would expect to see a EP-3 to replace the EP-2. I would expect it to be about the same body style (no built-in EVF but most likely a built-in flash) and will have a new sensor. Maybe even more upscale since there is now the EFL series. I would also expect Olympus to add a third camera and it will have a built-in EVF. It would have a design inspired by te old Olympus OM series. This will give Olympus a three tier system in their m-4/3 camera line.

Now it will be interesting to see what Pentax is going to offer late this year.

Dave

05-16-2011, 05:37 PM   #590
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well rice high has a rumoured 50 f 1.0 (maybe it's for the milc, but damn it would be a helluva DFA
05-16-2011, 07:18 PM   #591
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QuoteOriginally posted by DaveBlack Quote
If Olympus does come out with a 12mm f2.0, it will be the first Olympus of the high-end lenses for m-4/3 cameras. One would expect a new camera to match with up a high-end lens. With the EPL-2 selling well and the EP-2 being kind of old. I would expect to see a EP-3 to replace the EP-2. I would expect it to be about the same body style (no built-in EVF but most likely a built-in flash) and will have a new sensor. Maybe even more upscale since there is now the EFL series. I would also expect Olympus to add a third camera and it will have a built-in EVF. It would have a design inspired by te old Olympus OM series. This will give Olympus a three tier system in their m-4/3 camera line.

Now it will be interesting to see what Pentax is going to offer late this year.

Dave
You may be right. I'm just quoting the moderator on the MU43 site on the built EVF. Even he's not sure. The "rumor" there is there will be a new Pen with a built in EVF, new 16MP sensor that Olympus developed, and a better build quality than the EPL2. I have the EP2 and EPL2. The EPL2 is the better camera but the EP2 is a much better quality camera. The speculation is it will be announced as early as July with at least 2 new lenses (possibly 3 with the third being a 50mm Macro). Personally I think that's a pretty good guess where Olympus is heading. That would still seem to leave them missing something like the upcoming Panasonic 25mm but that would probably come later, maybe next year. I'm not a long lens shooter but I'm not really sure that's what these cameras are good at it anyway. I just wouldn't know.

The 12mm is almost for sure as is the the portrait lens. The camera will definitely be coming but who knows when.

As for Pentax who knows. It does seem that G3 will be a big seller. Most of the pre release press I've read has been really positive. Not sure it will be like the Fuji X100 though.
05-16-2011, 08:47 PM   #592
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
To me what matters is the IQ I get out of the lens. If the raw converter does some magic to remove distortions and succeeds while keeping great resolution, I'm fine with that.

I think digital correction is the future. I'm very happy I have to correct for less things in postprocessing.
except you get uncorrectable noise banding = Adobe Forums: for Eric Chan - Panasonic software...
05-16-2011, 09:03 PM   #593
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
G3 with the 14, 25 and and 45 is pretty much the dream kit for that camera I think - corresponds to 28, 50, 90 FF.
45/2.8 is ok macro, but otherwise it is too short for a good tele, too long for a general purpose, too dark for a good portraiture lens if you want a good background blur (90/5.6 FF eq) and if you don't then any kit zoom is good enough on 43 sized sensor... and like a decent macro it is OK resolution wise when focusing for close objects, but worse for remote objects... probably worth to wait for the rumored Oly lens this year (one was rumored to be wide angle/fast and another was rumored to be portraiture/fast, unless Oly will try to go w/ something like 25/1.4)... for the record - I own 45/2.8.

05-16-2011, 09:15 PM   #594
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
Perhaps one of the traditional camera manufacturers will respond to the CSC challenge by producing a DSLR that offers what the CSC's don't.
Interesting theory. I'd posit that Sony has responded to the CSC challenge with their pellicle mirror A series. They may be the most technically innovative dSL (no Reflex) cameras around, and they've got the distribution muscle to sell boatloads.
05-17-2011, 05:34 AM   #595
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
except you get uncorrectable noise banding = Adobe Forums: for Eric Chan - Panasonic software...
I've never seen that in real pictures, so it's quite irrelevant for me.
05-17-2011, 06:58 AM   #596
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
I've never seen that in real pictures, so it's quite irrelevant for me.
that you did not see it in your pictures does not change the fact that software optics correction bands the noise...
05-17-2011, 07:55 AM - 1 Like   #597
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
that you did not see it in your pictures does not change the fact that software optics correction bands the noise...
I read all kinds of negative things from tecnophilies on why certain cameras aren't up to par, usually with links to DxO scores and bar charts. Then I go to Flickr and browse photos made by actual photographers with the camera in question and I'm quickly reminded how small technical flaws don't matter if you know how to use a camera properly. Take the Olympus E-4XX series for example. No camera in that series was technically a great camera, but put them in the right hands and they produce great results.

If Panasonic, Olympus, or Pentax can use software correction to reduce the size of cameras and lenses then I'm all for it; even if it causes cameras to produce flawed results 1% of the time. I can carry a small camera like the GF2 + 20mm/1.7 with me everywhere I go, in part due to software correction. As Chase Jarvis says, the best camera is the one you have with you...
05-17-2011, 08:23 AM   #598
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I read all kinds of negative things from tecnophilies on why certain cameras aren't up to par, usually with links to DxO scores and bar charts. Then I go to Flickr and browse photos made by actual photographers with the camera in question and I'm quickly reminded how small technical flaws don't matter if you know how to use a camera properly. Take the Olympus E-4XX series for example. No camera in that series was technically a great camera, but put them in the right hands and they produce great results.

If Panasonic, Olympus, or Pentax can use software correction to reduce the size of cameras and lenses then I'm all for it; even if it causes cameras to produce flawed results 1% of the time. I can carry a small camera like the GF2 + 20mm/1.7 with me everywhere I go, in part due to software correction. As Chase Jarvis says, the best camera is the one you have with you...
+1 I've never been much of a pixel-peeper but the older I get the less I care about such minutae - and specifications in general. This goes not just for cameras but for other things I love as well - like cars and motorcycles. I am much more concerned with visible results and with how enjoyable a camera (or car or motorcycle) is to operate. It doesn't mean the pixel-peepers aren't technically correct or that they don't have a point. It's just not a priority for me.
05-17-2011, 08:58 AM   #599
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
that you did not see it in your pictures does not change the fact that software optics correction bands the noise...
...and the fact that french fries have virtually no nutritional value doesn't stop me from eating them...

I take photos, not facts.
05-17-2011, 09:10 AM - 1 Like   #600
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I'll throw m'y 2 cents here.
Personaly I don't care if software can help get better quality.
But... If software become a way to sell crap or average lenses at high price counting on the software to correct for lens defficiencies, then I have a problem.
It is not only a question of principle but also a question of:
1) paying the right price
2) softwAre is always at risk of being not further developped/maintained. And we get screwed.

Otherwise, I don't care much. Rather a question of taste. Mostly the same thing as PSing a picture: how far?
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