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05-27-2011, 04:03 PM   #631
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Thanks. I think I need to see (and touch) the NC-1 and G3 side by side before making up my mind.

There's supposedly a slew of compact interchangeable announcements in June, so I'll wait and decide.

Sony NEX C3 is coming out as well. This market is really hotting up. My main problem with the Sony is that the body is really small and sexy, but the lenses are really big and chunky.

05-27-2011, 06:30 PM   #632
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Thanks. I think I need to see (and touch) the NC-1 and G3 side by side before making up my mind.


Sony NEX C3 is coming out as well. This market is really hotting up. My main problem with the Sony is that the body is really small and sexy, but the lenses are really big and chunky.
Yep the body is nice on the Sony, but the lenses are way to big.

Nikon I think is on the right path, IMHO the 2.5x size sensor making the camera small and the lenses small .. a wise choice I think.


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05-27-2011, 07:33 PM   #633
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Thanks. I think I need to see (and touch) the NC-1 and G3 side by side before making up my mind.

There's supposedly a slew of compact interchangeable announcements in June, so I'll wait and decide.

Sony NEX C3 is coming out as well. This market is really hotting up. My main problem with the Sony is that the body is really small and sexy, but the lenses are really big and chunky.
I would definitely wait and see what Olympus is coming out with too.
05-27-2011, 10:22 PM   #634
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
I would definitely wait and see what Olympus is coming out with too.
I'd also recommend keeping an eye on Samsung as well. They have the cash to burn to make serious inroads into the EVIL market if that's what they really want to do.

After a few weeks of use I can say that the NX100 is an awfully compelling little camera, and I feel as though many of its positives are things Samsung learned from their dSLR association with Pentax.

05-27-2011, 10:51 PM   #635
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QuoteOriginally posted by thethirdcoast Quote
I'd also recommend keeping an eye on Samsung as well. They have the cash to burn to make serious inroads into the EVIL market if that's what they really want to do.

After a few weeks of use I can say that the NX100 is an awfully compelling little camera, and I feel as though many of its positives are things Samsung learned from their dSLR association with Pentax.
I like the direction Samsung is going. I think they are a generation away still, but I really like what they are developing.
05-28-2011, 04:30 AM   #636
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I like the direction Samsung is going. I think they are a generation away still, but I really like what they are developing.
Good to hear a favourable review. There's supposed to be an NX200 out this summer, I'm keen to see what they're going to do.

QuoteOriginally posted by thethirdcoast Quote
After a few weeks of use I can say that the NX100 is an awfully compelling little camera
Glad I'm not the only one. I was surprised at how well built and designed their EX1 is.
05-28-2011, 07:20 AM   #637
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ILC with 1/2.33" sensor? I doubt it

I'll publicly register my skepticism about this rumour here. I just can't see this being compelling. No doubt new products are in the pipeline, but not this.

It seems to me that Hoya/Pentax have been making very smart moves for the past couple of years, and this does not look like a smart move, hence my disbelief. I'm more inclined to think that this is disinformation designed to track information leaks from within the company.

The only way that I can make sense of this rumour is to think that maybe the NC-1 benefits from some new sensor technology that overcomes many of limitations that we're used to in sensors of this size. But I haven't heard of any radical new sensor technologies, so I wouldn't give this prospect much credence either.
05-28-2011, 11:19 AM   #638
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QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
I'll publicly register my skepticism about this rumour here. I just can't see this being compelling. No doubt new products are in the pipeline, but not this.
One possible explanation (mentioned earlier in this thread, I think) may be that it's a 1/2.33 crop sensor - that would make more sense.

05-28-2011, 09:47 PM   #639
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After getting my hands on an old MX, I fail to see why a K-mount mirrorless wouldn't work.

This thing is much smaller than my K-5 and even K-x. I went to Fry's today to compare it to the EPL-1 and Samsung NX, and this thing is roughly the same size. Very slightly thinner and shorter overall, in fact (except immediately around the lens mount), though it is a little wider. This despite the fact that it is a "full frame" SLR with an enormous FF mirror and viewfinder (I was stunned at how much bigger they were than my K-5's), as well room for two film spools.

With an APS-C mirrorless, you wouldn't have to have a big phase-detection AF system or light meter (both are handled by the main sensor), nor a big FF mirror box. They could easily cram the electronics into where the film spools were as well as the space savings in the viewfinder/mirror box. Current LCD technology should make the thickness added negligible (just take a look at today's smartphones). Figure out some kind of side mounting system for SR so it doesn't have to add thickness.

And there you have a full size K-mount mirrorless camera that's just as small as any mirrorless currently out there (besides the ridiculously unbalanced Sony NEX). As a bonus, if it looks all retro like those old SLRs, it'll be a huge hit if the Fuji X100 is any indication.

Last edited by Cannikin; 05-28-2011 at 09:57 PM.
05-29-2011, 12:29 AM   #640
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
After getting my hands on an old MX, I fail to see why a K-mount mirrorless wouldn't work.
  1. The camera would have to be relatively thick due to the flange focal distance of the K-mount - the mirrorless mounts are two times closer to the sensor
  2. The above would cause the wide angles and normals to remain large and inefficient inverse-tele designs (yes,we have pancakes, but they're quite slow and they would be optically better with a shorter FFD - the normals of today are ridicilously big)
  3. Does the K-mount provide connections to provide enough power to much stronger AF-motor than what the current lenses have (this is needed for contrast detect AF to work fast as the focus has to be moved fast back and forward for each focusing intead of just one direction as with phase detect AF)
Then again, you're right in that one could make it small - and they wouldn't even have to remove the mirror

QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
This thing is much smaller than my K-5 and even K-x. I went to Fry's today to compare it to the EPL-1 and Samsung NX, and this thing is roughly the same size. Very slightly thinner and shorter overall, in fact (except immediately around the lens mount), though it is a little wider. This despite the fact that it is a "full frame" SLR with an enormous FF mirror and viewfinder (I was stunned at how much bigger they were than my K-5's), as well room for two film spools.
Essentially the film cameras are empty boxes, so they can be made small. With DSLRs you need big battery (especially if EVF) and plenty of room for electronics. Then there is also need for usability and user interface - many more buttons and stuff needed than with film cameras. How to create a usable prosumer camera with a tiny body?
05-29-2011, 12:40 AM   #641
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
One possible explanation (mentioned earlier in this thread, I think) may be that it's a 1/2.33 crop sensor - that would make more sense.
AFAIK, there is no such CMOS sensor on the market.

Anyhow, going smaller, towards lower image quality, with a system that is the future hardly is likely. Pentax with it's limited resources is already having to provide for two mounts - K and medium format, they're only going to add one more mount for themselves to worry about, and that has to be large enough for at least APS-C, hopefully for FF. Putting a unnecessarily small sensor inside would not make any sense whatsoever as it'd not only hamper the image quality, enforce creation of lenses that would be compromises (as they'd have to work well with very different image circles, thus be larger than necessary, and more complicated to optimize), and it would not even bring the price of the system down (hard to imagine an obscure low production sensor to be cheaper than an APS-C mass product is), nor size at all.

When the camera comes out, it'll almost certainly have an APS-C sensor, though, I do have hopes that they'd reallly do something different and make the first model a pro(sumer)-model with a FF sensor. I'd buy one the day it came out (assuming EVF and SR included) and a Leica wide/normal as well to break my bank account...
05-29-2011, 03:27 AM   #642
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Samsung on the right track with the EX1 / a.k.a. TL500

And the Samsung EX1 / TL500 its taken me by surprise too: so I bought one after the itch became too great for another camera. Exceptional build quality, great lens, feels like a miniaturised version of the original version of the Pentax KM (a K1000 with a depth of field preview and self timer I think the differences were.) Sees in the dark with its 1.8 lens. If only Pentax could bring something like this out, even with a quality fixed lens. I am finding it quite relaxing not to have to worry about lenses.


Zenfolio | Stefan Carey | EXPERIMENTAL PHOTOS SAMSUNG EX1 TL500


QuoteQuote:
Glad I'm not the only one. I was surprised at how well built and designed their EX1 is.
05-29-2011, 03:55 AM   #643
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stefan Carey Quote
And the Samsung EX1 / TL500 its taken me by surprise too: so I bought one after the itch became too great for another camera. Exceptional build quality, great lens, feels like a miniaturised version of the original version of the Pentax KM (a K1000 with a depth of field preview and self timer I think the differences were.) Sees in the dark with its 1.8 lens. If only Pentax could bring something like this out, even with a quality fixed lens. I am finding it quite relaxing not to have to worry about lenses.
Nice set, there. The night time shots are a revelation, I wouldn't expected that level of quality to be honest. But then the EX1 also has a larger sensor at 1/1.7" than the rumoured NC-1. They seem to know how to price it, too: here in Toronto that camera is currently listed at $450.
05-29-2011, 10:03 AM   #644
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stefan Carey Quote
And the Samsung EX1 / TL500 its taken me by surprise too: so I bought one after the itch became too great for another camera. Exceptional build quality, great lens, feels like a miniaturised version of the original version of the Pentax KM (a K1000 with a depth of field preview and self timer I think the differences were.) Sees in the dark with its 1.8 lens. If only Pentax could bring something like this out, even with a quality fixed lens. I am finding it quite relaxing not to have to worry about lenses.


Zenfolio | Stefan Carey | EXPERIMENTAL PHOTOS SAMSUNG EX1 TL500

That is a great set of photos. I wish my quality shots looked half as good as your experiments!

Back on topic, the ergonomics of the NX100 are one of the things that strike me as very "Pentaxian". The organization and font selection on the menu system are excellent. The iFunction is a nice means of providing quick access to major exposure variables, but the standard controls are so well organized that iFn can be completely ignored. Build quality is also solid.

The bottom line is that I find the NX100 ergos so good that I have to wonder if Samsung had (has?) people intently studying Pentax' dSLR ergos during their association. The Pentax EVIL ergos are going to have a very tough time improving on what Samsung has already released.

Where the NX falls down is the lack of in-body shake reduction and an articulated LED screen. Both of these would be extremely helpful to street shooting. The first would assist with non-ideal lighting and the second would help the shooter stay very inconspicuous when going for candids. Some sort of dust reduction shield would also be very welcome when changing lenses. The folks at Sigma have implemented a physical shield, and Panasonic has an ultrasonic dust guard methodology.

As for retro styled cameras, I am probably one of the few people on this forum left fairly cold by styling that mines the past too heavily. I feel like Pentax would be better off bringing out something fairly modern to expand their customer base.
05-29-2011, 01:54 PM   #645
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QuoteOriginally posted by thethirdcoast Quote
As for retro styled cameras, I am probably one of the few people on this forum left fairly cold by styling that mines the past too heavily. I feel like Pentax would be better off bringing out something fairly modern to expand their customer base.
Thanks for posting on your experience with the NX100. It's looking more and more attractive to me. Especially now that it's being steeply discounted - that's less than the EX1.

As for "retro", I don't care what it looks like: it's the manual controls I want.
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