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06-05-2011, 10:42 AM   #691
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Yep which is why i lové Canon solution a lot more

06-05-2011, 10:54 AM - 1 Like   #692
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
That is true. And not on the horizon.

Actually, I don't even watch for a serious mirrorless camera. The step before could be a hybrid camera with a translucent (read semitransparent) swing mirror but unlike the SLT, still retaining the optical viewfinder. The optical and electronic viewfinder images should then be overlaid in an adjustable way. Moreover, phase and contrast AF should then assist each other for ultimate speed and accuracy. And the choice between optical and electronic VF would be great during video too. The mirror would stay down for very fast (read 24fps) or quiet still video sequences, using electronic shutter circuitry.

That's the kind of camera I am watching out for, ideally FF. I lost hope for it though
Leica M9.

Ooooooohh.... you want auto-focus?
06-05-2011, 11:42 AM   #693
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It's very interesting to me that so many Pentaxians on these boards also own mirrorless cameras - mostly micro four-thirds but also some of the others, including Sony's SLT, Samsung's NX series and even Fuji's X100. It's possible that many CaNikon owners do as well - but, in my heart, I suspect there are more Pentaxians with mirrorless kits - at least as a ratio of ownership as opposed to raw numbers. Perhaps it should come as no surprise: Pentaxians don't tend to be fanboys and usually take a broader, more open-minded and enlightened view of photo systems.

But I also suspect that DSLR owners of all brands have been slowly and quietly moving to mirrorless because their traditional systems may not be giving them what they want. Yes, there isn't enough high-level, fast glass for most of the mirrorless cameras yet but I think that's about to change. Leica is already working on lenses for micro four-thirds and it seems only logical that Pentax would back up a mirrorless system with Limited- and DA*-quality glass. And I hope that Pentax will be the first to offer a weather-resistant APS-C mirrorless camera when the company makes its announcement this summer.

Mind you, I am not claiming the end of traditional DSLRs. But there is a market hole big enough to drive a tractor-trailer through for mirrorless. In my opinion, full growth and product excellence for these new systems won't be hard to achieve in a technical sense - and is only held up by the stupifyingly conservative nature of the Asian camera makers. The discussion, rumors and speculation in this string has been fun and fascinating. This is a great time to be into photography.
06-05-2011, 12:06 PM - 1 Like   #694
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Mmm somehow I just thought Pentax may indeed be in a difficult position.
Pentax IMO is thé incarnation (among other things) of a compact serious camera (vs useless p&s and vs big and heavy Canikon) but mirrorless changes that.
Most People Will get Canikon dslr and a mirrorless cam.

On size PoV, Pentax isn't as attractive as before.

06-05-2011, 12:41 PM   #695
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
It's very interesting to me that so many Pentaxians on these boards also own mirrorless cameras - mostly micro four-thirds but also some of the others, including Sony's SLT, Samsung's NX series and even Fuji's X100. It's possible that many CaNikon owners do as well - but, in my heart, I suspect there are more Pentaxians with mirrorless kits - at least as a ratio of ownership as opposed to raw numbers. Perhaps it should come as no surprise: Pentaxians don't tend to be fanboys and usually take a broader, more open-minded and enlightened view of photo systems.

But I also suspect that DSLR owners of all brands have been slowly and quietly moving to mirrorless because their traditional systems may not be giving them what they want. Yes, there isn't enough high-level, fast glass for most of the mirrorless cameras yet but I think that's about to change. Leica is already working on lenses for micro four-thirds and it seems only logical that Pentax would back up a mirrorless system with Limited- and DA*-quality glass. And I hope that Pentax will be the first to offer a weather-resistant APS-C mirrorless camera when the company makes its announcement this summer.

Mind you, I am not claiming the end of traditional DSLRs. But there is a market hole big enough to drive a tractor-trailer through for mirrorless. In my opinion, full growth and product excellence for these new systems won't be hard to achieve in a technical sense - and is only held up by the stupifyingly conservative nature of the Asian camera makers. The discussion, rumors and speculation in this string has been fun and fascinating. This is a great time to be into photography.
I am buying my wife a EPL-2 for her bithday in two weeks. She wants something more than a P&S (she has a Canon A-620) but smaller than my dslr. Then later on I might buy a future m-4/3 if they get a higher-end camera and lenses out. Then again if Pentax comes out with a mirrorless camera that is built like the K-5 (rugged, Weather-sealed, direct control with buttons and dials) with lenses for it built like DA* and Limited lenses I will go with the Pentax. So far there is not a good choice in mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras for users that like advance features and direct controls, except for a Leica M9. I did handle the new Fuji and like it a lot but want an interchangeabe lens camera.

Dave
06-05-2011, 01:05 PM   #696
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Fuji is said to go for mirrorless for their next cams after x100 success.
06-05-2011, 03:13 PM   #697
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The modern CDAF systems are fast enough for most forms of photography. I am hoping Samsung takes their 36x36mm MF sensor and puts it in a NX type body. For what I would use that camera for CDAF would be more than enough. Give me 3 fast primes for that system and I would be very happy.

I just keep looking at the glass that is available for mirror-less and I am not currently interested.
06-05-2011, 03:44 PM   #698
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Mmm somehow I just thought Pentax may indeed be in a difficult position.
Pentax IMO is thé incarnation (among other things) of a compact serious camera (vs useless p&s and vs big and heavy Canikon) but mirrorless changes that.
Most People Will get Canikon dslr and a mirrorless cam.

On size PoV, Pentax isn't as attractive as before.
Exactly.
BTW, the NX primes lineup looks much better than DA (even * and Ltd).

06-05-2011, 05:26 PM   #699
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Mmm somehow I just thought Pentax may indeed be in a difficult position.
Pentax IMO is thé incarnation (among other things) of a compact serious camera (vs useless p&s and vs big and heavy Canikon) but mirrorless changes that.
Most People Will get Canikon dslr and a mirrorless cam.

On size PoV, Pentax isn't as attractive as before.
This is an excellent point that I hadn't thought of. On the other hand, if Pentax's mirrorless system hits it out of the ballpark, current Pentaxians would have strong reason to stay with the brand. As for customers moving up from P&S cameras and owners of CaNikons, features like weather resistance, above-average and innnovative viewfinders, and a selection of great glass (already sized for mirrorless without needing adaptors) would differeniate Pentax from the other brands.

And while it might be asking for too much at this point, a full-frame mirrorless camera would probably bring the house down. I just hope Sony doesn't get there first.

I'll say this: In addition to my Pentax DSLR kit, I have a Panasonic G1 and GF1 as well as five micro four-thirds lenses - the 14-45, 45-200 and 100-300 zooms, and the 14mm and 20mm primes. Most of those lenses ran in the $300-$350 range (brand new) with only the 100-300 costing $499. I have intentionally avoided the $700-900 lenses because micro four-thirds is still a second system for me. But the kit is a whole lot of fun and extremely practical for traveling and vacations. But I'll sell it all in a second and go with Pentax if the mirrorless system we hope will be announced this summer becomes reality.

Last edited by Biro; 06-05-2011 at 05:34 PM.
06-05-2011, 08:20 PM   #700
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As for me I don't see the place in mirrorless market to where Pentax could get in...

Weather resist APS-C camera with very cool functional and ergonomics with line of WR fixed lenses (ONLY FAST LENSES - from 1.4 till 2) and WR fast zooms...

It could be interesting - but I doubt...It's not evolutional and saving way which Hoya chose.
06-06-2011, 07:16 AM   #701
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Someone needs to build a serious mirror-less camera with high quality fast glass.
Have you ever tried a Panasonic GH2 with the 20mm F1.7? It's a seriously sweet combination. The GH2 sensor is very clean at ISO1600, and the 20mm is as nice as any of my DA Limiteds. What's especially cool about the 20mm is that creates a nice subtle 3D space when used from around F1.7 to F2.8 at typical candid/street working distances.





06-06-2011, 09:45 AM   #702
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Exactly.
BTW, the NX primes lineup looks much better than DA (even * and Ltd).
I'm not sure I'd go that far, but I like the current NX roadmap a lot more than the NEX or m4/3rds roadmaps.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
As for me I don't see the place in mirrorless market to where Pentax could get in...

Weather resist APS-C camera with very cool functional and ergonomics with line of WR fixed lenses (ONLY FAST LENSES - from 1.4 till 2) and WR fast zooms...

It could be interesting - but I doubt...It's not evolutional and saving way which Hoya chose.
I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. The more I use the NX100 the more I feel as though it is the type of EVIL that Pentax should have brought to market. I don't think a wait and see approach favors Pentax in these market conditions.

QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
I'll say this: In addition to my Pentax DSLR kit, I have a Panasonic G1 and GF1 as well as five micro four-thirds lenses - the 14-45, 45-200 and 100-300 zooms, and the 14mm and 20mm primes. Most of those lenses ran in the $300-$350 range (brand new) with only the 100-300 costing $499. I have intentionally avoided the $700-900 lenses because micro four-thirds is still a second system for me. But the kit is a whole lot of fun and extremely practical for traveling and vacations. But I'll sell it all in a second and go with Pentax if the mirrorless system we hope will be announced this summer becomes reality.
I've seen some pretty impressive telephoto results from the GH2 + 100-300 zoom. I am sorely tempted by that and the articulated LCD on most Panasonic bodies, but I can't really justify a m4/3rds purchase without selling some of my existing gear.
06-06-2011, 09:57 AM   #703
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
As for me I don't see the place in mirrorless market to where Pentax could get in...

Weather resist APS-C camera with very cool functional and ergonomics with line of WR fixed lenses (ONLY FAST LENSES - from 1.4 till 2) and WR fast zooms...

It could be interesting - but I doubt...It's not evolutional and saving way which Hoya chose.
I look at marketing trends, especially at retail.

I do see mirrorless being a path for Pentax, but here needs to be a K-mount, APS-C option. Penatx is about loyalty to glass. I see Pentax having to enter the mirrorless market in order to retain its loyal base.

One thing I have noted lately is that advertising for DSLR's is still dominant over mirrorless. Mid to low-price DSLR's still the bulk of coverage. Sometimes the tail wags the dong, but I am not seeing diminished sales volumes in DSLR's as a result of mirrorless. Price is a factor. It's simply not a fact that mirrorless is the way everything is going. Certainly the hesitation of Canikon at going to mirrorless speaks volumes. When Oly and Pentax started to offer small body SLR's i the 1970's, Canon and Nikon and Minolta all continued to thrive with larger body production, and all 3 offered rangefinder's as well (as did Oly, but not Pentax).

In some ways, the bigger issue for Pentax is what replaces the K-5.
06-06-2011, 10:03 AM   #704
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QuoteOriginally posted by thethirdcoast Quote
I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. The more I use the NX100 the more I feel as though it is the type of EVIL that Pentax should have brought to market. I don't think a wait and see approach favors Pentax in these market conditions.
The main problem of new player is to offer something more special than competitors.
m4/3 and NX has very good line of lenses. To catch up "the train of another mirrorless system" is very hard for any new player. The train goes, no stops...

I've tried NX100. I prefer NX10's body.
06-06-2011, 11:02 AM   #705
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Mmm somehow I just thought Pentax may indeed be in a difficult position.
Pentax IMO is thé incarnation (among other things) of a compact serious camera (vs useless p&s and vs big and heavy Canikon) but mirrorless changes that.
It may be that line of thinking that's got them on the verge of bringing out a 1/2.33" based system. Someone in the Pentax or later Hoya camp figured out early that the rugged/WR route space was a good one, and I think that's a much stronger draw than being the absolute smallest. A Pentax MILC with sturdy manual controls and a grippy tough exterior would stand apart from the field. They seem to get this with their binoculars.

(Plus, I'll fantasize that they could uncripple the mount.)
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