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06-08-2011, 03:29 PM   #736
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote

The Samsung is pretty intriguing. Does it have an viewfinder option like the EPL2? Nice lens lineup Wide, normal, portrait. Pretty much all most people need.
the higher-end Samsung NX10 has a built-in EVF. although it is slightly bigger because of the inclusion of the VF, it is still considerably small. and have a much flatter surface dimensions and slim compared to a typical dslr. between the two existing pocket type APS-C cameras (Sony NEX and Samsung NX), I prefer the built and dimensions of the Samsung. the cheaper Samsung NX100 is even more smaller and compact which looks like a typical sized P&S camera, except that it's not a P&S. although they have to remove the VF for it (which would make you rely on LV mode when shooting) to look more compact and made an optional EVF separately for it. but really, if one would look for using an EVF, just buy the NX10. for something really small and pocketable, the NX100 (just dont buy the EVF accessory).

I do agree that the lens lineup is really nice but the camera sensor and implementation needs some improvement. personally the current NX10 sensor is nothing more than a handicapped K-7 sensor. I call it handicap due to lesser sensitivity which is fine. but the real downside is the aggressive anti-aliasing and NR applied on the files. also the issue regarding hot/dead pixels. I'm hoping that Samsung would find a way to resolve those issues and improve the upcoming product since they have a very promising lens lineup already.

06-08-2011, 03:31 PM   #737
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oh and I forgot to mention, the Samsung NX series have a much better AF system than Pentax.
06-08-2011, 04:27 PM   #738
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
I do agree that the lens lineup is really nice but the camera sensor and implementation needs some improvement. personally the current NX10 sensor is nothing more than a handicapped K-7 sensor.
I thought the NX10/100 sensor was basically the K20D sensor, but I may have bad information.

Samsung's push to release fast NX-mount glass tells me that they have people in their camera branch that "get it" to some degree. I feel like they had at least a few saavy folks on staff that were tasked with studying Pentax and the low/mid-range dSLR market.

Beyond that, I can't wait for the 60mm Macro, but I wish the 85/1/4 MSRP was a bit lower.
06-08-2011, 05:04 PM   #739
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If Pentax will offer a mirrorless APS system, that would please me no end. I have a medium format system, but sometimes it would be nice to take something along in my pocket. I was considering the Samsung NX10 with 30mm, since the Fuji X100, while better, is also overpriced I feel. If Pentax gets in between, and makes itself proud, it could be very very interesting.

Just confused about the lenses though. Would there be a "crop" factor? I cannot understand how genuine K lenses can have the same flange. There will probably be new lenses.

06-08-2011, 05:14 PM   #740
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And new top lenses is was Pentax really needs, more than ever.
I have been deterred from buying the 31mm because, on a APS-C, it is more or less a standard lens. I'm sure it's excellent but its reputation is as a wide angle.
The DA 21mm is not quite of the same level, I read (I have no direct experience, I should admit up front). There's nothing but legacy primes in between. A 24mm and 28mm which would cover both APS and FF would be highly desirable. Or even just APS. But not cheap lenses, true contenders.
I'm sure I'm repeating wishes voiced long ago and many times. Just adding to the chorus.
06-08-2011, 05:48 PM   #741
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
the camera sensor and implementation needs some improvement.
Maybe this is where Samsung needs Pentax after all. Pentax won a lot of praise with its implementation of the Sony sensor; surely Sony gains by having Pentax around. At the very least, Pentax is helping Sony defray the costs of developing and manufacturing its sensors. Is anybody other than Samsung currently using Samsung's sensors?
06-08-2011, 05:53 PM   #742
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QuoteOriginally posted by thethirdcoast Quote
I thought the NX10/100 sensor was basically the K20D sensor.
I would say it's the K-7 due to same video capability, except that the NX10 has more tolerance to heat compared to the K-7 which heats up way quicker. aside from that, on the DXOmarks, both the K-7 and NX10 display the same output levels as opposed to the K20D.

QuoteQuote:
but I wish the 85/1/4 MSRP was a bit lower.
I 'm in agreement that Samsung could have atleast priced it more competitively around $600-$700, for them to create some stir in the market and attract a lot of prosumers in an instant. but we'll see if there are any changes upon the release of the lens. although having said that, maybe the cost of building the lens is just high. maybe the lens is really spectacular and have a lot of perks to offer in terms of functionality. I mean, probably it's an IF, OIS, ultra-quiet and very fast AF. I mean, the fast AF alone I think is worth the extra cost. and I don't think of any existing 85/1.4 lens that has an amazingly fast and silent AF.
06-08-2011, 06:00 PM   #743
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
Is anybody other than Samsung currently using Samsung's sensors?
None, but Samsung can improve on the sensor on it's own. I dunno what transpired between Samsung and Pentax that made either party went their separate ways. but from what I see is that Samsung somehow managed to build their own without Pentax. not to mention it was able to develop a fast AF system and a mirrorless concept. I mean for a consumer electronics firm that just barely got into the serious camera business, they are doing a great job so far.

06-08-2011, 06:05 PM   #744
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It's similair to when Apple dumped the RISC Motorola chips for Intel ones, those G series chips were slipping further and further behind and Apple realised it needed intel chips if it wasn't going to be hamstrung by the core component.

The K-7 sensor was enough for Pentax to wave good bye to Samsung and get on board with the sensor manufacturer that had the current performance advantage and seemingly the momentum to continue to pull ahead. I think the last 2 years have shown it was a very wise move.
06-08-2011, 07:10 PM   #745
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
It's similair to when Apple dumped the RISC Motorola chips for Intel ones, those G series chips were slipping further and further behind and Apple realised it needed intel chips if it wasn't going to be hamstrung by the core component.

The K-7 sensor was enough for Pentax to wave good bye to Samsung and get on board with the sensor manufacturer that had the current performance advantage and seemingly the momentum to continue to pull ahead. I think the last 2 years have shown it was a very wise move.
could be or the other way around. on Samsung's side, I think it is pointless for them to keep the partnership with Pentax, especially if they are offering the same cameras for sale in the market (GX10 and GX20 versus K10D and K20D). for the most part, the sales would mostly go to Pentax and it's lenses since Samsung is only practically selling their cameras. it could be that Samsung has already garnered enough info from Pentax to start their own line of lenses and leave Pentax in the dust fending for itself. the K-7 would had been probably the last remnant of the partnership and I think this is the reason why Samsung came up with a mirrorless system rather than releasing yet again a renamed K-7 (maybe a GX-7). this could be the reason why Hoya was able to acquire Pentax easily.

if we are going to evaluate things further, the K-5 practically is a rehashed K-7 with a different sensor and a few tweaks on the AF. there is no real innovative change so far aside from sensor change. and about the lenses? well, a rehashed 35mm, a re-release of the FA20-35, FA35, A50/1.2 and finally an overpriced kitlens with a new motor (DA18-135). so far, Pentax has been behind in the lens game. I'm not sure what advantage would Pentax obtain from going mirrorless aside from keeping the faithful happy with having possibly a small camera alternative. but still the question remains and the lack of new lenses, how are they going to improve their AF system? I'm sure they can retain the screwdrive function for backward compatibility of old Pentax AF system on a new camera. a sort of engage function one's an old lens is mounted on the camera. all they need is to change SDM with an efficient, quiet and faster one. it could had been the SSA system, but I guess Samsung kept that technology for themselves as a leverage for their own unique product.
06-08-2011, 07:36 PM   #746
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I cant agree if it is a growing market new competitors can gain share
The 1/2.33 camera isnt fir the typical forum member its for the larger market imho
The apsc has been rumoured to have some k mount compatability last i looked that means a lot more than 2lenses
K-mount mirrorless is big mistake IMO.
K-mount has very long flange focal distance
Flange focal distance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can explain - why I think about NX body...The answer is simple - Samsung lenses - 16/2.4...30/2....but I really want 85/1.4.
Not Sigma 85/1.4 for K mount, not manual 85/1.4...I really wish more compact camera with more compact 85/1.4.
Even the price of such combo is lower than another versions.

Last edited by ogl; 06-08-2011 at 07:44 PM.
06-08-2011, 07:45 PM   #747
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
K-mount mirrorless is big mistake IMO.
K-mount has very long flange focal distance
Flange focal distance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But if they launch a mirrorless camera without some level of K-mount compatibility - either directly or via an adaptor - than they will be starting far behind other mirrorless systems with respect to lens selection.

It's a difficult position to be in, and I don't envy the person at Pentax/Hoya that had to make that decision...
06-08-2011, 08:16 PM   #748
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
But if they launch a mirrorless camera without some level of K-mount compatibility - either directly or via an adaptor - than they will be starting far behind other mirrorless systems with respect to lens selection.

It's a difficult position to be in, and I don't envy the person at Pentax/Hoya that had to make that decision...
Olympus has AF adaptor for 4/3 lenses. You are right - K-mount compatibility must be.
06-08-2011, 11:13 PM   #749
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Olympus has AF adaptor for 4/3 lenses. (...)
And so does Sony for SAM and SSM lenses in Alpha mount (= those who have their own motor).

Two things however shall be taken into consideration:

1. - Most Pentax lenses, including all pancakes, rely on the body's motor to autofocus. Compact system cameras do not have an autofocus motor. Autofocus via adapter would therefore be limited to SDM and DC lenses.

2. - Contrast detection autofocus with lenses designed for phase detection autofocus is often slow, again see the results of many Sony lenses mounted on NEX bodies with the Sony LA-EA1 adapter.

Last edited by Mistral75; 06-08-2011 at 11:23 PM.
06-09-2011, 02:25 AM   #750
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
1. - Most Pentax lenses, including all pancakes, rely on the body's motor to autofocus. Compact system cameras do not have an autofocus motor. Autofocus via adapter would therefore be limited to SDM and DC lenses.
Unless the adapter contains a motor.
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