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06-20-2011, 12:26 AM   #871
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[QUOTE=zackspeed;1548734
i only wanna know if the video lens is ok for use.]

Yeah, that would be awesome, nice fluid and well autofocussing video. Now that is something I wish for too. Indeed cann't have that without a suitable lens.
A 645d? Oh, that is wonderful. Of course I secretaly would want to use one, but well, not without a loyal no-commenting James to carry my stuff while faithfully trailing my lamentably slow pace.

06-20-2011, 12:28 AM   #872
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
The sensor quality has gotten to the stage where a smaller sensor is more and more feasible, and thus suited interchangeable lens systems can be designed smaller. Pentax have done well with APS-C, they can do it smaller yet with this proposed EVIL setup.
Dude, it's not the sensor performance that defines IQ but it's size. Look at 5d: it's sensor is much worse than one on K-5, but the IQ the camera produces is overall superior to pentax APS-C, especially at wide apertures.
06-20-2011, 01:44 AM   #873
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
Dude, it's not the sensor performance that defines IQ but it's size. Look at 5d: it's sensor is much worse than one on K-5, but the IQ the camera produces is overall superior to pentax APS-C, especially at wide apertures.
Like IQ is an objective criteria now...

IQ stands for Image Quality, and this is a criteria as blurry as it can be in Internet photo forum slang...
06-20-2011, 03:25 AM   #874
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
Like IQ is an objective criteria now...

IQ stands for Image Quality, and this is a criteria as blurry as it can be in Internet photo forum slang...
And? You didn't agree Canon 5D easily outperforms K-5 with lenses wide open?

06-20-2011, 03:32 AM   #875
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
And? You didn't agree Canon 5D easily outperforms K-5 with lenses wide open?
What does wide lens aperture have to do with IQ?
06-20-2011, 03:39 AM   #876
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QuoteOriginally posted by wjjstu Quote
What does wide lens aperture have to do with IQ?
Not the lens aperture, but sensor size
The explanation is simple, compare 31Ltd on APS-C and FF: on APS-C it's normal lens, on FF it's wide angle one with the IQ of APS-C normal one. But it will look even sharper: the APS-C crop is only center part of image.

Last edited by Emacs; 06-20-2011 at 04:12 AM.
06-20-2011, 04:34 AM   #877
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And? This the sharpest place it could be (center)
06-20-2011, 04:41 AM - 1 Like   #878
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Emacs, your statements are so disconnected with reality that it is hard to understand from where to even start opposing them.

06-20-2011, 04:59 AM   #879
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
Emacs, your statements are so disconnected with reality that it is hard to understand from where to even start opposing them.
I'm tired to expain why the larger magnification means better image quality, which is exactly the case when comparing different sensor sizes (larger sensor → greater lens magnification for the same FOV → greater image quality). I'm not a fanboy, so I clearly see the difference between APS-C and FF is greater than one between FF and 645D. And I have no doubt the Q system will be a big stupid joke: shitty IQ (about the P&S) at the cost of Samsung NX, which will outperform pentax dslr + DA fix lineup in the near future.
06-20-2011, 05:06 AM   #880
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
And? This the sharpest place it could be (center)
Compared to what? Shitty 21Ltd? 21Ltd @ 3.2? LOL
06-20-2011, 05:11 AM   #881
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If that's not fanboy/troll comment what is it?
06-20-2011, 05:18 AM   #882
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
arger magnification means better image quality
False.

QuoteQuote:
larger sensor → greater lens magnification for the same FOV → greater image quality
Wow, two non sequiturs for the price of one.

QuoteQuote:
the difference between APS-C and FF is greater than one between FF and 645D
Depends in what way. The difference between APS-C and FF is a lot bigger than the difference between m43 and APS-C, though.

Last edited by juu; 06-20-2011 at 05:24 AM.
06-20-2011, 05:22 AM   #883
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
I'm tired to expain why the larger magnification means better image quality, which is exactly the case when comparing different sensor sizes (larger sensor → greater lens magnification for the same FOV → greater image quality). I'm not a fanboy, so I clearly see the difference between APS-C and FF is greater than one between FF and 645D. And I have no doubt the Q system will be a big stupid joke: shitty IQ (about the P&S) at the cost of Samsung NX, which will outperform pentax dslr + DA fix lineup in the near future.
And another myth propagated... In the early 2000, Kodak released some full frame sensors (and a camera Kodak Pro DCS-14n) that were so shitty that it was a massive failure. At the same time Canon and Nikon started to release APSC cameras that were massively of higher "IQ".

Your argumentation is really flawed, I don't have any opinion about the Canon 5D vs Pentax K5 debate, which is pointless in my opinion, but as much as you don't take in account the "flavor" of the pictures (due to the shalower DOF, FOV and aperture equal) I don't see why an APSC camera of 2010 wouldn't be able to compete in "performance" with a camera released in 2005.

Especially that "performance" parameter is not really defined.
06-20-2011, 06:23 AM   #884
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
False.
True actually, when we are talking about optical system (lenses are optical systems). If the first glass magnifies the image λ times, the next one receives λ times more distance between spots, so it's easier to resolve them.
It's not so easy for the actual lenses due to their complexity, though. But it's near to this.
Of course, I'm talking about the lenses of the same FOV at the same distance.
On the other hand, lesser sensor means larger image "magnification", so it means those abberations become larger too
06-20-2011, 06:36 AM   #885
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
And another myth propagated... In the early 2000, Kodak released some full frame sensors (and a camera Kodak Pro DCS-14n) that were so shitty that it was a massive failure. At the same time Canon and Nikon started to release APSC cameras that were massively of higher "IQ".

Your argumentation is really flawed, I don't have any opinion about the Canon 5D vs Pentax K5 debate, which is pointless in my opinion, but as much as you don't take in account the "flavor" of the pictures (due to the shalower DOF, FOV and aperture equal) I don't see why an APSC camera of 2010 wouldn't be able to compete in "performance" with a camera released in 2005.

Especially that "performance" parameter is not really defined.
It was the case at the very beginning of the cheap digital era. It isn't such an imporant case due to general sensor technology progress. But there were no lenses one, the best optical schemes for fixed focal were achieved in 1970-1980s, almost no progress here since then.
Nikon guys tried to persuade everyone their APS-C aren't any worse than canon FF for a long time. Did they succeeded? Obviously no. They could to fake their fanboys, but not consumers who see how big was the difference.
As for me, I find both canon nikon primes to be shitty, I don't like rangefinders, I don't want to cut my LTDs. So I stay with Pentax stuff until mirrorless FF, where I can mount my lenses easily. But I stopped buying everything from modern Pentax which is just trashy compared to old stuff + shitty quality.
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