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01-31-2011, 04:34 PM - 1 Like   #106
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Kenko C mount system camera

Going back to the subject of the topic, here is a system camera, not a Pentax but a Kenko one, to be shown at CP+.

Remember that Tokina belong to Kenko and there are links between Kenko / Tokina and Hoya / Pentax: Tokina lenses using Pentax-patented formulas and vice versa, same filters branded Kenko in Japan and Hoya abroad and more.

This camera uses C mount, the mount of 16mm cinema cameras and CCTV cameras. 16mm film size is 7.49mm x 10.26mm (12.7mm diagonal, hence x3.4 coefficient compared to 24x36) and Super16 is 7.41mm x 12.52mm (14,5mm diagonal, hence x3 coefficient compared to 24x36).

The sensor size is unknown. Some rumours are saying the standard lens is 6mm f/1.4 and therefore speculating on a tiny compact-camera 1/2,3" sensor.

Source: Photo Rumors Kenko to unveil their interchangeable lenses digital camera tomorrow (C-mount) | Photo Rumors quoting DCWatch ƒPƒ“ƒR[AƒMƒtƒgƒVƒ‡[t2011‚ɁuCƒ}ƒEƒ“ƒgƒJƒƒ‰v‚ŽQlo•i - ƒfƒWƒJƒWatch, themselves quoting a press release from Kenko ƒMƒtƒgƒVƒ‡[o•iV•i/ŽQlo•ibŠ”Ž‰ŽƒPƒ“ƒR[ and CP+o•iV•i/ŽQlo•ibŠ”Ž‰ŽƒPƒ“ƒR[

The following picture comes from Kenko's website: http://www.kenko-tokina.co.jp/gift2011_4.jpg

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NIKON D700  Photo 

Last edited by Mistral75; 01-31-2011 at 04:44 PM.
01-31-2011, 06:09 PM   #107
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Very interesting! I wonder why they chose JPG only if they're rolling out a body capable of switching lenses. For that matter, are any of the available lenses in that mount worthwhile?
01-31-2011, 06:21 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aku Ankka Quote
The future of photography is "mirrorless". The mirror is just a moving mechanicall part limiting the size and speed of the camera while making it less reliable and more expensive to make. .
An optical viewfinder is a feature and will be present on cameras dedicated for serious use for the foreseeable future. Just like optical windows and glasses instead of LCD screens....
The mirror assembly is more reliable than LCD screens; the former almost never fails while the latter does....

Last edited by Pl Jensen; 01-31-2011 at 06:59 PM.
01-31-2011, 06:56 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
If the rumors we heard the last months are correct the NC-1 will be a camera featuring a smaller than APS-C sensor.
[/B]

As for me, it's big mistake, if it's correct.

Who will buy Pentax micro 4/3 cameras?
What do you think?
Smaller than APS-C sensor - is the problem for you or not?
A smaller sensor is the only thing that makes sense. Removing the optical finder makes it possible the make a smaller system camera. What this add to the mix is smaller size and it also complement the larger Pentax system cameras.
Smaller sensor, smaller canmera and smaller lenses means lower prices and higher sales volume. The P&S crowd, which is the target market for EVIL's, will find it a compelling substitute.

01-31-2011, 09:31 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pl Jensen Quote
Smaller sensor, smaller canmera and smaller lenses means lower prices and higher sales volume. The P&S crowd, which is the target market for EVIL's, will find it a compelling substitute.
Smaller sensor = bad IQ.

Tiny camera is unreal to make good ergonomics for big hands.

The main task of camera is to make good IQ.
If you are professional marketer, yes...it's not very bad move.
If you are photographer, it's ridiculous.

The ordinary man choose P&S camera, not P&S with interchangeable lenses. It is marginal decision for Japanese market IMO. Like Ricoh interchangeable lenses + sensors.
01-31-2011, 10:10 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Smaller sensor = bad IQ.

Tiny camera is unreal to make good ergonomics for big hands.

The main task of camera is to make good IQ.
If you are professional marketer, yes...it's not very bad move.
If you are photographer, it's ridiculous.

The ordinary man choose P&S camera, not P&S with interchangeable lenses. It is marginal decision for Japanese market IMO. Like Ricoh interchangeable lenses + sensors.
The main task of camera is to make picture.
01-31-2011, 10:50 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by wjjstu Quote
The main task of camera is to make picture.
To make GOOD pictures. To make picture is easy by cameraphone.
01-31-2011, 10:57 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by froeschle Quote
"Worlds Smallest DSLR Camera": Chobi One Valid counterexample?
It's funny how in the article it links to another saying "Japanese girls love small things" , sorry I just found that funny.



QuoteOriginally posted by Regular guy Quote
With all due respect, I think that you guys are missing the point.

When I saw the specs on the Canon 7D ... I would never carry it around with me.

So the whole MFT thing makes a lot of sense for people like me. But it should make sense for a lot more of you than will admit it.

But what if instead of trying cram more megapixels in the camera, you used the same technology to make the system smaller?

The advancements in digital imaging have allowed us to completely rethink what a camera should be. The constraints that led to existing designs are gone, replaced by new and different constraints.

A lot of people want a smaller interchangeable lens system than even an entry-level DLSR. And for most of us, smaller means smaller lenses, not NEX. Full frame would just be a huge lens with a little box at the end. If you are going to lug those lenses around, you might as well balance them with a substantial camera.

But if you want the ability to take family pictures and to be creative, then a digital 110 would be perfect. With a digital camera, film is not an issue, and no one can tell by looking what was used to take most photographs. It would be way more than good enough.

I am more excited about a Pentax EVIL camera than I care to admit. Pentax already gets it when it comes to a compact, functional cameras. The overall dimensions of the K5 are only 10% bigger than the GH2. At 4.4 MP/cm2, the Pentax sensor has a density in the range of other 12 megapixel MFT cameras (the G2 is 5MP/cm2). If you just used a 4/3 size part of the Pentax sensor, you would have 10 megapixels.

If Pentax joined MFT, then it would have lenses available and a market for its own lenses. But I can tell you now that I would be first in line to get a Pentax MFT camera.

My purpose is not to start a fight, but to explain why some of us are so enthusiastic about a Pentax EVIL camera. I guess the starting point is whether you would like a smaller camera if it could meet all of your needs. If you would, then question is whether a smaller camera could meet your needs. I suspect that with current and continuing advances in technology, the answer is or will be yes.
Excellent post! I agree that if Pentax does go mirror-less that they should focus on getting a camera that has quality results, but still gives it a reason to exist by being a small system in both body and lenses. I too don't understand the purpose of these mirrorless cameras with comparatively large lenses attached. I just hope Pentax decided to implement a good optical viewfinder in the thing somehow (eg. something like Fuji's new camera). I like small cameras, but I don't know if I could sacrifice not having a good optical viewfinder.

01-31-2011, 11:27 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Going back to the subject of the topic, here is a system camera, not a Pentax but a Kenko one, to be shown at CP+.

Remember that Tokina belong to Kenko and there are links between Kenko / Tokina and Hoya / Pentax: Tokina lenses using Pentax-patented formulas and vice versa, same filters branded Kenko in Japan and Hoya abroad and more.

This camera uses C mount, the mount of 16mm cinema cameras and CCTV cameras. 16mm film size is 7.49mm x 10.26mm (12.7mm diagonal, hence x3.4 coefficient compared to 24x36) and Super16 is 7.41mm x 12.52mm (14,5mm diagonal, hence x3 coefficient compared to 24x36).
Now that's interesting! If Pentax used a C-mount with extra bits to make it have screw-drive AF and such it would be something I could be interested in for sure. It also looks like Pentax sells c-mount lenses or at least has in the past. Plus it opens a new market to Pentax for whoever uses those lenses and has a collection already.

This is interesting (A Pentax and other c-mount lens on a 4/3rds body):
PENTAX C Mount Lens | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
YAKUMO C Mount Lens | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Kern Paillard C Mount Lens | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Pictures taken with the Pentax: http://www.flickr.com/photos/eries/tags/pentaxcmount/

I'm really liking the size of those lenses. Imagine a tiny solid weather sealed Pentax (modified) c-mount camera that trumps P&S quality. That would be really neat.
02-01-2011, 02:12 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
Very interesting! I wonder why they chose JPG only if they're rolling out a body capable of switching lenses. For that matter, are any of the available lenses in that mount worthwhile?
Yes, there are very good lenses among the 16mm lenses: Carl Zeiss, Kern Paillard, Angenieux, Schneider Kreuznach and more. Quite expensive (second hand) though.

More there: US List of 286 c mount lens,
02-01-2011, 04:45 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Yes, there are very good lenses among the 16mm lenses: Carl Zeiss, Kern Paillard, Angenieux, Schneider Kreuznach and more. Quite expensive (second hand) though.

More there: US List of 286 c mount lens,
Good to hear. I see from your list that there are also adapters for just about every lens system ever made. Looks like the crop factor is >>1.6?

Camerapedia (getting better and better, that site) has an interesting write-up. I've known some film movie buffs who use 16mm, now I know what sort of gear is involved.

C-mount - Camerapedia
02-01-2011, 04:50 AM   #117
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MtgV[t2011ɃPR[́uC}EgJvQloi - fWJWatch
02-01-2011, 05:03 AM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The headline says, I think, that that's at a "gift show"?

I can't decide if that camera's "so ugly it's kinda cool" or even misses that mark.
02-01-2011, 05:57 AM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Smaller sensor = bad IQ.

Tiny camera is unreal to make good ergonomics for big hands.

The main task of camera is to make good IQ.
If you are professional marketer, yes...it's not very bad move.
If you are photographer, it's ridiculous.

The ordinary man choose P&S camera, not P&S with interchangeable lenses. It is marginal decision for Japanese market IMO. Like Ricoh interchangeable lenses + sensors.

You are absolutely right except that quality is good enough for the target market. Photographers prefer DSLR's and most causual snappers are better served with P&S. However, EVIL's is an answer to deteriorating sales of P&S due to more sophisticated cell phones.
02-01-2011, 06:17 AM   #120
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These lenses are far from being called pancakes. Is this mount having a register distance feasible for making a compact system? All looks "long" in size, not sure if the low aperture value causes this.
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