Pentax EVIL NC-1 has smaller sensor than APS-C - your opinion?

ogl · 01-24-2011, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by froeschle

Well, there are some other options left. Why introduce a new mount at all? I would suggest for the near future:

1=2 Realize a pocket-sized Pentax "110" and "Limited" lenses for the m43 mount.

3b Make an entree level EVIL (price about 150$ below K-r, articulated screen, reasonably small body).
Thus, update and realize the "Pentax Digital K concept": Pentax digital camera concepts
Et voilà:

bad design like NEX

RMabo · 01-24-2011, 09:50 AM - **1 Like**

I believe that joining micro 4/3 would be a logical choice for Pentax.
- The mount is there, it is a standard, and there are lenses already on the market for it.
- Pentax needs only release a few Limiteds and then they are sailing, they don't have to build up a completely new system.
- Investment is less than if Pentax would build up a new system.

Now, Sony does not (yet) make sensors as small as 4/3 so sensor needs to be the Panasonic sensor the others are using, or a new design (Kodak again? they have many interesting ideas, it's time to release them...).

As a low level hybrid between p&s compacts and pro APS-C system, yes I can see a market and customers for it and the Pentax version needs of course be the smallest and most compact of them all...

So for me, there is lots of logic in there.
But this is a personal reflection, the reality may be different when (if) the camera is released.

netuser · 01-24-2011, 09:51 AM

No good for me!

Talisker · 01-24-2011, 10:28 AM

The original article seems to be three paragraphs of junk that says absolutely nothing new, recycling rumours, but gets the words/phrases 'mirrorless camera', 'Pentax', 'NC-1' in as many times as possible, presumably to try to fool Google et al that its actually saying something – so why the excitement? That particular site has claimed to 'know' within the past month that the rumored camera will have a Sony 14 mpx APS-C sensor, and then a 4/3rds sensor, from which I assume they 'know' absolutely nothing but are just generating traffic ...

Art Vandelay II · 01-24-2011, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by ogl

IQ of m4/3 is far away from K-5, for example. And from K-r/K-x too.

I may be wrong, but to me it seems like that has as much to do with the fact that all m4/3's sensors come from Panasonic where as the K-r/K-5 both use excellent Sony sensors. The Canon 60D pixel density is 5.4 MP/cm² where as Olympus 12mp m4/3 sensor is 5.1 MP/cm², yet the 60D produces better results at high ISO. I think the problem is just in the Panasonic sensors; not the 4/3's sensor size. I'm really hoping Olympus can find another vendor if Panasonic can't do better.

That said, I'd prefer Pentax use APS-C (even APS-H or full frame). I can get by with 4/3's, but anything smaller is unacceptable. It's just too hard to get shallow DOF at wide angles if you go any smaller. Also, if they do indeed decide to use the 4/3's size then I really hope they just join m4/3's and use that mount. As much as I like Pentax the only way I'm going to choose them over m4/3's is if they use APS-C or larger sensor. Why would a buy a 4/3-size camera from Pentax when I can buy into a much larger system with Olympus/Panasonic?

ogl · 01-24-2011, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by RMabo

I believe that joining micro 4/3 would be a logical choice for Pentax.
.

I hope m4/3 for NC-1 is myth.

I don't understand why should I buy m4/3 from Pentax, if I don't see any GOOD lens for me in m4/3 system.
I think that a lot of Pentax users love Pentax lenses.

johnmflores · 01-24-2011, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by RMabo

I believe that joining micro 4/3 would be a logical choice for Pentax.
- The mount is there, it is a standard, and there are lenses already on the market for it.
- Pentax needs only release a few Limiteds and then they are sailing, they don't have to build up a completely new system.
- Investment is less than if Pentax would build up a new system.

Now, Sony does not (yet) make sensors as small as 4/3 so sensor needs to be the Panasonic sensor the others are using, or a new design (Kodak again? they have many interesting ideas, it's time to release them...).

As a low level hybrid between p&s compacts and pro APS-C system, yes I can see a market and customers for it and the Pentax version needs of course be the smallest and most compact of them all...

So for me, there is lots of logic in there.
But this is a personal reflection, the reality may be different when (if) the camera is released.

+1

M43 is making some serious inroads in Japan, one of the largest markets for cameras. If Pentax joined the consortium it would add momentum to the movement. And if M43 does become a well established standard for consumers, then it it wise to get in now, after Olympus and Panasonic have done the hard yards.

FWIW, my time with the GH2 has been interesting. It is in many ways the equal of the K20d, with faster AF to boot. Is there any reason to doubt continued improvement of the format? Is there any technical reason why an M43 sensor 3 years from now won't equal the K-5's performance?

Art Vandelay II · 01-24-2011, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by ogl

I think that a lot of Pentax users love Pentax lenses.

I like their lenses just fine, but Olympus also makes some really fine lenses (at least in their classic 4/3's line). Their 12-60mm f/2.8-4 is the finest standard zoom I've seen. Now they just need to start making m4/3's versions of their high end lenses...and supposedly they plan to. Although I've read before they do that they are going to release a series of weather sealed small primes to go along with their upcoming pro-grade m4/3's body.

Panasonic has proven to be no slouch on their lenses either. I guess they learned something from their Leica partnership. Their 7-14mm f/4 is an outstanding lens. Their 20mm f/1.7 is also very nice for the price. Plus, they are supposedly about to release a 12-50mm f/2.8-3.3 as well as a 25mm f/1.4. As of right now m4/3's may be lacking a few lenses I need, but that won't be the case by the end of the year.

deadwolfbones · 01-24-2011, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by frank

If it's a smaller sensor (than APSC) in a much smaller body, I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as the IQ is good enough for most users.

Agreed. I get excellent quality out of m4/3, so I'm not worried.

DaveBlack · 01-24-2011, 02:32 PM

If one believes the rumors there will be two new Pentax cameras released this year. One will be an "Auto 110" with a smaller sensor released in the Spring; and the other will be an ILC with an APS-S senor released later in the year.

Now what does Pentax mean by an "auto 110" camera is up for debate until (if) it is announce. My guess is that the "auto 110" will be a small camera that will be in the Canon G-10, Panasonic LX5, Olympus ZX1 and Nikon L7000 market position. To be different it might take interchangeable lenses with maybe two released with the camera. Sensor size will most likely be the Sony sensor that is in the G-10/L7000 cameras.

The second camera will be a more traditional ILC camera like the Olympus EP-2 but would use the Sony sensor that is in the K-5 and it will have an optional adopter to take K-mounted lenses.

Anyhow it is just ideas on what the rumors mean.

Dave

Kenn100D · 01-24-2011, 03:18 PM

I think the Mirrorless Camera from Pentax will feature a micro 4/3 then release an APS-C mirrorless later. It's testing the waters of mirrorless. If micro 4/3 is succesful they might stay with it then APS-C later. I believe they still in the choosing which sensor to put in there mirrorless APS-C Camera.

Rumor has it they are releasing two mirrorless camera.

elho_cid · 01-24-2011, 04:25 PM

I don't see much sense in using SLR lenses on evil camera. Telephoto lenses are large so the advatage of small camera is gone and wide lenses can be so much smalled with mirrorless that using like DA14 with adaptor would be stupid.
I say they don't need to preserve compatibility with K-mount, not even and adaptor is necessary. They just need to continue supply more traditional and powerful K-mount cameras in the future and not abandon the market like Oly did.

builttospill · 01-24-2011, 04:40 PM

Maybe they'll keep going with the backward compatibility marketing and use the same mount as the Auto 110s!

zackspeed · 01-24-2011, 06:03 PM

Is 4/3 compatible with Pentax K and SDM???

**Aristophanes** · 01-24-2011, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

+1

M43 is making some serious inroads in Japan, one of the largest markets for cameras. If Pentax joined the consortium it would add momentum to the movement. And if M43 does become a well established standard for consumers, then it it wise to get in now, after Olympus and Panasonic have done the hard yards.

Problems:

M43 doesn't compete with Sony's offerings of MILC at APS-C size. Long term edge to Sony.

Cannot easily leverage existing lens base; ad for Pentax, and entire new line of proprietary lenses is a non-starter (unless their version is NOT MILC, but something closer to what Fuji is doing).

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01-24-2011, 09:49 AM	#16
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382 Original Poster	Originally posted by froeschle Well, there are some other options left. Why introduce a new mount at all? I would suggest for the near future: 1=2 Realize a pocket-sized Pentax "110" and "Limited" lenses for the m43 mount. 3b Make an entree level EVIL (price about 150$ below K-r, articulated screen, reasonably small body). Thus, update and realize the "Pentax Digital K concept": Pentax digital camera concepts Et voilà: bad design like NEX

01-24-2011, 09:50 AM - 1 Like	#17
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	I believe that joining micro 4/3 would be a logical choice for Pentax. - The mount is there, it is a standard, and there are lenses already on the market for it. - Pentax needs only release a few Limiteds and then they are sailing, they don't have to build up a completely new system. - Investment is less than if Pentax would build up a new system. Now, Sony does not (yet) make sensors as small as 4/3 so sensor needs to be the Panasonic sensor the others are using, or a new design (Kodak again? they have many interesting ideas, it's time to release them...). As a low level hybrid between p&s compacts and pro APS-C system, yes I can see a market and customers for it and the Pentax version needs of course be the smallest and most compact of them all... So for me, there is lots of logic in there. But this is a personal reflection, the reality may be different when (if) the camera is released.

01-24-2011, 09:51 AM	#18
netuser Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Azores Islands, Portugal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,236	No good for me!

01-24-2011, 10:28 AM	#19
Talisker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland Photos: Gallery Posts: 262	The original article seems to be three paragraphs of junk that says absolutely nothing new, recycling rumours, but gets the words/phrases 'mirrorless camera', 'Pentax', 'NC-1' in as many times as possible, presumably to try to fool Google et al that its actually saying something – so why the excitement? That particular site has claimed to 'know' within the past month that the rumored camera will have a Sony 14 mpx APS-C sensor, and then a 4/3rds sensor, from which I assume they 'know' absolutely nothing but are just generating traffic ...

01-24-2011, 12:26 PM	#20
Art Vandelay II Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 886	Originally posted by ogl IQ of m4/3 is far away from K-5, for example. And from K-r/K-x too. I may be wrong, but to me it seems like that has as much to do with the fact that all m4/3's sensors come from Panasonic where as the K-r/K-5 both use excellent Sony sensors. The Canon 60D pixel density is 5.4 MP/cm² where as Olympus 12mp m4/3 sensor is 5.1 MP/cm², yet the 60D produces better results at high ISO. I think the problem is just in the Panasonic sensors; not the 4/3's sensor size. I'm really hoping Olympus can find another vendor if Panasonic can't do better. That said, I'd prefer Pentax use APS-C (even APS-H or full frame). I can get by with 4/3's, but anything smaller is unacceptable. It's just too hard to get shallow DOF at wide angles if you go any smaller. Also, if they do indeed decide to use the 4/3's size then I really hope they just join m4/3's and use that mount. As much as I like Pentax the only way I'm going to choose them over m4/3's is if they use APS-C or larger sensor. Why would a buy a 4/3-size camera from Pentax when I can buy into a much larger system with Olympus/Panasonic?

01-24-2011, 12:45 PM	#21
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382 Original Poster	Originally posted by RMabo I believe that joining micro 4/3 would be a logical choice for Pentax. . I hope m4/3 for NC-1 is myth. I don't understand why should I buy m4/3 from Pentax, if I don't see any GOOD lens for me in m4/3 system. I think that a lot of Pentax users love Pentax lenses.

01-24-2011, 01:03 PM	#22
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by RMabo I believe that joining micro 4/3 would be a logical choice for Pentax. - The mount is there, it is a standard, and there are lenses already on the market for it. - Pentax needs only release a few Limiteds and then they are sailing, they don't have to build up a completely new system. - Investment is less than if Pentax would build up a new system. Now, Sony does not (yet) make sensors as small as 4/3 so sensor needs to be the Panasonic sensor the others are using, or a new design (Kodak again? they have many interesting ideas, it's time to release them...). As a low level hybrid between p&s compacts and pro APS-C system, yes I can see a market and customers for it and the Pentax version needs of course be the smallest and most compact of them all... So for me, there is lots of logic in there. But this is a personal reflection, the reality may be different when (if) the camera is released. +1 M43 is making some serious inroads in Japan, one of the largest markets for cameras. If Pentax joined the consortium it would add momentum to the movement. And if M43 does become a well established standard for consumers, then it it wise to get in now, after Olympus and Panasonic have done the hard yards. FWIW, my time with the GH2 has been interesting. It is in many ways the equal of the K20d, with faster AF to boot. Is there any reason to doubt continued improvement of the format? Is there any technical reason why an M43 sensor 3 years from now won't equal the K-5's performance?

01-24-2011, 01:05 PM	#23
Art Vandelay II Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 886	Originally posted by ogl I think that a lot of Pentax users love Pentax lenses. I like their lenses just fine, but Olympus also makes some really fine lenses (at least in their classic 4/3's line). Their 12-60mm f/2.8-4 is the finest standard zoom I've seen. Now they just need to start making m4/3's versions of their high end lenses...and supposedly they plan to. Although I've read before they do that they are going to release a series of weather sealed small primes to go along with their upcoming pro-grade m4/3's body. Panasonic has proven to be no slouch on their lenses either. I guess they learned something from their Leica partnership. Their 7-14mm f/4 is an outstanding lens. Their 20mm f/1.7 is also very nice for the price. Plus, they are supposedly about to release a 12-50mm f/2.8-3.3 as well as a 25mm f/1.4. As of right now m4/3's may be lacking a few lenses I need, but that won't be the case by the end of the year.

01-24-2011, 02:12 PM	#24
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Santa Fe, NM Posts: 7,451	Originally posted by frank If it's a smaller sensor (than APSC) in a much smaller body, I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as the IQ is good enough for most users. Agreed. I get excellent quality out of m4/3, so I'm not worried.

01-24-2011, 02:32 PM	#25
DaveBlack Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 441	If one believes the rumors there will be two new Pentax cameras released this year. One will be an "Auto 110" with a smaller sensor released in the Spring; and the other will be an ILC with an APS-S senor released later in the year. Now what does Pentax mean by an "auto 110" camera is up for debate until (if) it is announce. My guess is that the "auto 110" will be a small camera that will be in the Canon G-10, Panasonic LX5, Olympus ZX1 and Nikon L7000 market position. To be different it might take interchangeable lenses with maybe two released with the camera. Sensor size will most likely be the Sony sensor that is in the G-10/L7000 cameras. The second camera will be a more traditional ILC camera like the Olympus EP-2 but would use the Sony sensor that is in the K-5 and it will have an optional adopter to take K-mounted lenses. Anyhow it is just ideas on what the rumors mean. Dave

01-24-2011, 03:18 PM	#26
Kenn100D Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Paranaque City, Philippines Photos: Gallery Posts: 697	I think the Mirrorless Camera from Pentax will feature a micro 4/3 then release an APS-C mirrorless later. It's testing the waters of mirrorless. If micro 4/3 is succesful they might stay with it then APS-C later. I believe they still in the choosing which sensor to put in there mirrorless APS-C Camera. Rumor has it they are releasing two mirrorless camera.

01-24-2011, 04:25 PM	#27
elho_cid Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Prague Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	I don't see much sense in using SLR lenses on evil camera. Telephoto lenses are large so the advatage of small camera is gone and wide lenses can be so much smalled with mirrorless that using like DA14 with adaptor would be stupid. I say they don't need to preserve compatibility with K-mount, not even and adaptor is necessary. They just need to continue supply more traditional and powerful K-mount cameras in the future and not abandon the market like Oly did.

01-24-2011, 04:40 PM	#28
builttospill Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Utah, Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,398	Maybe they'll keep going with the backward compatibility marketing and use the same mount as the Auto 110s!

01-24-2011, 06:03 PM	#29
zackspeed Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 527	Is 4/3 compatible with Pentax K and SDM???

01-24-2011, 06:03 PM	#30
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by johnmflores +1 M43 is making some serious inroads in Japan, one of the largest markets for cameras. If Pentax joined the consortium it would add momentum to the movement. And if M43 does become a well established standard for consumers, then it it wise to get in now, after Olympus and Panasonic have done the hard yards. Problems: M43 doesn't compete with Sony's offerings of MILC at APS-C size. Long term edge to Sony. Cannot easily leverage existing lens base; ad for Pentax, and entire new line of proprietary lenses is a non-starter (unless their version is NOT MILC, but something closer to what Fuji is doing).