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02-02-2011, 02:40 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
Again, Hoya itself can easily absorb the loss with no problems, but it doesn't look good on the record of Pentax, what with Hoya's management being very insistent that its Pentax division prove itself worthy of its $1 billion+ purchase price and be able to support itself without eating into the parent company's profits.
I wouldn't worry much about that. The lens factory goes at full speed. They cannot meet demand on the K-5 or the 645D - don't know about the k-(m,r,x)(can't remember its name!)

02-02-2011, 03:29 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
You can not use serial numbers. There are no way to know if they are continuous. Often they aren't....
Hmmm... I was under the assumption that the serial number system Pentax uses is shared across all of their cameras (that is a camera produced is given the next serial number, no matter which model). Of course there weren't 150,000 K-5s produced in that time period, but it seems very reasonable that 150,000 Pentax cameras (K-5/K-r/K-x/645D) were produced in that time period. Also, I thought it's why K-5s start at 38xxxxx (indicating 3.8 million Pentax DSLRs were produced before that).

Of course I could be wrong as I don't work in manufacturing, so I don't know how such a system really works. Seems kind of silly if a serial number system is not serial (in sequence), heh.
02-02-2011, 03:38 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
mmm... I was under the assumption that the serial number system Pentax uses is shared across all of their cameras (that is a camera produced is given the next serial number, no matter which model). Of course there weren't 150,000 K-5s produced in that time period, but it seems very reasonable that 150,000 Pentax cameras (K-5/K-r/K-x/645D) were produced in that time period. Also, I thought it's why K-5s start at 38xxxxx (indicating 3.8 million Pentax DSLRs were produced before that).
You are correct , as production come the production , they get the next serial # independantly of the model produce
02-02-2011, 04:38 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by elho_cid Quote
I wonder what do they mean by emerging countries... I haven't heard about any new country emerging last year.
But some have submerged, sunked completelly (Island, Ireland, Greece) and a couple more taking on water. (Portugal and Spain).

Have fun,
Luis

02-03-2011, 12:00 PM   #35
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Ford recalls 500,000 F150s today because of a door handle problem...they've had recalls in past...yet sales are still great.

Rheingold beer (or it may have been Schaefer) had union problems in New York in the late 60s (or early 70s?)...was turning out an inferior product...and was forced to shut down because of low sales based on a temporary problem long fixed.

You never know how these things will play out.

However, a K5 customer is pretty damn sophisticated about the product he/she is buying, and is much more likely to understand the possibilities of a production problem, and much more aware of the camera's other attributes which make it the better buy.
02-05-2011, 05:03 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
If I'm not mistaken, the stain problem was Sony's fault (or whoever packaged the chips, i.e., not Pentax).
If it wasn't Pentax's fault, shouldn't we see stains on Nikon D7000 sensors as well?
02-05-2011, 05:48 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
If it wasn't Pentax's fault, shouldn't we see stains on Nikon D7000 sensors as well?
Not automatically, the sensors aren't exactly the same usually.
The base is the same and are tweaked given manufacturer specs.
02-05-2011, 07:00 AM   #38
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The error apparently happened when the sensor die was wrapped in the carrier and glass face (or thereabouts). Sony may have multiple late-stage assembly operations for multiple packaging types or there was a single bad batch and that batch was destined for Pentax.

02-05-2011, 10:43 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
If it wasn't Pentax's fault, shouldn't we see stains on Nikon D7000 sensors as well?
From the photos I've seen, I guess Pentax and Nikon receive the IMX071 sensor in different packaging. The Pentax is a BGA (I confirm this), the Nikon doesn't seem to be. I'm not sure as photos of the actual devices are rare and may be symbolic. Even the recent chipworks teardown didn't clarify the issue. Nevertheless, a BGA package for Pentax only makes sense as Pentax has much tighter size constraints (SR in a smaller body) and would pay extra for this package type. Moreover, BGA (ball grid array) has better heat transfer capabilities. I think that Nikon and Pentax receive the same dies though.
02-05-2011, 10:46 AM   #40
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The cost to Pentax for the stained sensors in the K-5 will probably at least to some degree be deteremined by whether their sensors were stained when they came from Sony, or whether they got stained after they were in Pentax's possession. If they came to Pentax already stained I would think Sony will have to bear some of the cost of their replacement or cleaning.
02-08-2011, 05:01 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
From the photos I've seen, I guess Pentax and Nikon receive the IMX071 sensor in different packaging. ...
Thanks, Falk!
02-08-2011, 05:31 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
Hmmm... I was under the assumption that the serial number system Pentax uses is shared across all of their cameras (that is a camera produced is given the next serial number, no matter which model). Of course there weren't 150,000 K-5s produced in that time period, but it seems very reasonable that 150,000 Pentax cameras (K-5/K-r/K-x/645D) were produced in that time period. Also, I thought it's why K-5s start at 38xxxxx (indicating 3.8 million Pentax DSLRs were produced before that).

Of course I could be wrong as I don't work in manufacturing, so I don't know how such a system really works. Seems kind of silly if a serial number system is not serial (in sequence), heh.
I do work in manufacturing, in fact Japanese manufacturing. Many of our Japanese suppliers do not have sequential serial numbers, many other systems are in play. Some are date/time based, some are location/assemby line based etc. We have no way of knowing if Pentax uses any of the above or some other system. It may even be that Pentax S/N's are sequential, but for the entire pentax camera line including P&S cameras. The generation of serial numbers is a closely held secret in many Japanese companies.

NaCl(unfortunately you cannot use serial numbers to try to determine the # of K-5s produced w/o knowing the S/N system used)H2O
02-08-2011, 09:18 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
I do work in manufacturing, in fact Japanese manufacturing. Many of our Japanese suppliers do not have sequential serial numbers, many other systems are in play. Some are date/time based, some are location/assemby line based etc. We have no way of knowing if Pentax uses any of the above or some other system. It may even be that Pentax S/N's are sequential, but for the entire pentax camera line including P&S cameras. The generation of serial numbers is a closely held secret in many Japanese companies.

NaCl(unfortunately you cannot use serial numbers to try to determine the # of K-5s produced w/o knowing the S/N system used)H2O
No more need to estimate production numbers: I have verified through Pentax Japan that the official production volume of the K-5 is indeed, as others have stated, 18,000 units per month (????????????K????????????PENTAX?K-5?????PENTAX). Assuming the K-5 had been in production for 3 months (from September to week 50) before the manufacturing issue was found, that means a total of 54,000 units in the affected time period. That means my estimate was in fact an underestimate and Pentax could quite possibly lose even more than I calculated.

As for the serial number conundrum, true we cannot know how it really works without asking Pentax themselves, but there are plenty of clues lying around that give a pretty good idea. All known K-5s, K-rs and the final produced K-xs for the affected period occupy the same 150,000 serial number sequence, while all previous Pentax DSLRs since the K10D (besides special editions) fall within distinct, chronological sequences, with contemporaneous models overlapping (check the serial number database). Thus I think it is a reasonable assumption to say that the numbers are linked to a general production time period, even if the exact distribution method between contemporaneous models is unknown.

Anyway, we can definitely rule out the idea that the serial number sequence includes P&Ss. It is a mathematical impossibility for the K-5 to account for more than 1/3 of serial numbers, when at least 2 cameras are definitively known to greatly outsell/produce it in the same time period: W90 and I-10, let alone the other Optios, the K-r and however many remaining K-xs were produced in that time.

The 150,000 estimate from counting serial numbers still looks like a very reasonable estimate for total Pentax DSLR production in the 3 month period following the introduction of 2 new models, with the K-5 taking up roughly 1/3 of that.

Last edited by Cannikin; 02-09-2011 at 02:01 AM.
02-09-2011, 04:51 AM   #44
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Cannikin, the only thing about your theory the numbers involved could be higher (and subsequently greater losses) is that a great many consumers do not read forums, and quite possibly will never really realise a) they ahve a fault, b) Pentax will repair it. Bearing in mind some countries have no official importer, and some countries have a 40 day warranty.

I'm not really nit picking or arguing, just wondering if you had really factored those into your equations?

woody
02-09-2011, 05:31 AM   #45
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Good news for the long run but not such good news for those hoping for price reductions. There will be no fire sale.
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