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10-20-2007, 10:14 AM   #211
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
Yet, when anyone, including myself, would point out IQ difficulties and improvable shortcomings in K10D image processing - where concerted effort in more efficiently written, and feature laden firmware would help - posted on forums monitored by Pentax execs and customer service - YOU were right there as one of the few to loudly negate anything said.
This is extremely unfair. In an open forum, anyone can voice his or her opinion. Just because Roland's and others have different experience than yours, it did not mean that he was trying to "negate" what you said.

This is how open forum works. Everyone's experience and opinion is different. Some are extreme, some are opposite, some are biased, some are unwarranted. By having a collection of all different opinion and experience, a balance is struck somewhere in between.

Just like in this thread, one of the poster loved Foveon, I don't. I was not trying to negate what he said, I just voiced my point of view.

10-20-2007, 02:03 PM   #212
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I do not agree.

Regarding the VPN issue, I don't care much because it never went in my way so I not an issue for me. But I know it exists, I got it a few time (but really non critical work). Roland acted like (in his behaviour en DpR) like theres was NO problem or if it was a wanted feature by Pentax. Gosh !

I know why he reacted like that: he was (still is?) annoyed by the constant K10D has this issue K10D has that issue blabla which reigns on DpR and is indeed very annoying. But negating issues others have with a camera against evidence is irritating.

This is a salvo against Roland but it doesn't mean "boubouh Roland is bad". I still welcome Roland, here or in DpR. Just a constructive critics.
10-20-2007, 03:23 PM   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I know why he reacted like that: he was (still is?) annoyed by the constant K10D has this issue K10D has that issue blabla which reigns on DpR and is indeed very annoying. But negating issues others have with a camera against evidence is irritating.
Well, we are just at the opposite end of the opinion spectrum then.
On the contrary, I find other people's constant raising the same issue over and over again in multiple thread and hijacking thread irritating and annoying.

And I happen to agree with Roland more often than not.
10-21-2007, 03:40 AM   #214
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Well, we are just at the opposite end of the opinion spectrum then.
On the contrary, I find other people's constant raising the same issue over and over again in multiple thread and hijacking thread irritating and annoying.
Of course it is annoying. That's exactly what I said. But in the end Roland responded to legitimate reports the same way he responded to those hijack/annoying threads/posts.

10-21-2007, 05:03 AM   #215
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Roland is one of the very few whose comments I read always and with thought always. I'd hate to see his back, leaving this forum...

I for one have a DS. And yes, it is a love-thing. I don't have a K10D and I don't intend to get one. But I do plan to get it's follower.
10-21-2007, 06:58 AM   #216
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Geez I never said/tought that Roland should go away.... surely not !!
10-21-2007, 08:11 AM   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by 35mmfilm_user Quote
Hi Paul,

I know the designs are done or being completed for certain focal lengths (those above 300mm...). Don't hold your breath for an AF 400/2.8 though! The side bonus is that I suspect with time, those third party manufacturers will take notice of Pentax's success and start producing more options in the Pentax mount.

Besides, I think your listed focal lengths are too short...

Cheers!
Marc
So, do we think this is just lenses coming, or is there a new DSLR in the near future? I really want to buy a new body, but I kid you not, less than a month after buying my istDL, the k100d came out. Then, not long after I bit the bullet and got a k100d, the k10d started hitting stores! I don't want to be stuck one camera behind by a short margin again!
10-21-2007, 09:15 AM   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
Yet, when anyone, including myself, would point out IQ difficulties and improvable shortcomings in K10D image processing - where concerted effort in more efficiently written, and feature laden firmware would help - posted on forums monitored by Pentax execs and customer service - YOU were right there as one of the few to loudly negate anything said.

Even hardware related issues were at least able to be made a bit better with firmware by different algorithms, back-out programs, etc.

You posted so often in so many threads where people had issues that were inherent in K10D design (more obvious in some styles of photography), where your posts basically said the complaints were not worth consideration - that even Pentax customer service pointed out your comments as to show there is no reason to improve the K10D. Even I got an email reply from Pentax customer service linking to one of your responses - and then dismissed my complaint.
It is of course entertaining to see how you misinterpret what I'm saying.
I have had no issues with my Pentax DSLR's, and I do of course have the right to say that I have not had any issues with my Pentax DSLR's. If you can't stand this, then you really are having a problem.

I have NOT negated problems, I simply have written that I have not had problems and I have written so because it is the fact, it is true. Your problem is that you can't accept the fact that some, like me, has had no issues with their Pentax DSLR's. When you have a problem, then this does not automatically mean that everyone has the same problem like you. And this is what I have pointed out and I will still point it out. Not all Pentax DSLR's has problems.

I have NEVER said that complaints are not worth considerating, you are reading things that I have not read and then you make up a false story and accuse me of something that is all in your mind.
I have NEVER said there was no reason for improving the K10D, where should I have said or written that? Please provide evidence! Cameras can always be improved, but your problem is that you believe that ALL K10D has errors and you can't stand the fact that my K10D is working perfectly and I have no issues with it.

I'm sorry, but I have no interrest in breaking down my K10D just to make you feel better.

10-21-2007, 09:25 AM   #219
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Regarding the VPN issue, I don't care much because it never went in my way so I not an issue for me. But I know it exists, I got it a few time (but really non critical work). Roland acted like (in his behaviour en DpR) like theres was NO problem or if it was a wanted feature by Pentax. Gosh !
That is not true at all.
I simply wrote that MY K10D did not have a problem.
If you can't stand the fact that my K10D is working then fine, then I can't help you.
In your world, it seems like every K10D has a fault.

It is true that Pentax has quality issues, but things gets overblowned when some (hint hint) suggests that ALL K10D's are faulty and has lots of problems. Now, because this isn't true - mine is working just fine - I simply points out that my K10D is working fine.

I promised you that I will continue to point out that my K10D is working just fine as long as it is working just fine. Why? Simply to make the discussion more balanced.

If someone writes, for example "my k10D is backfocusing", yes I write that my K10D does not have a backfocus problem (because this is true, I have tested it).
Does this means that the person with the problem doesn't have a problem? No.
Does this means that I negate the persons problem? No.
What it means is simply - some has problems, some does not.
It is very easy to enter forums and get the impression that *all* cameras are faulty.
Well know that this isn't true, so that is why I'm balancing the discussion by writing that my K10D is working fine in those areas that it is working fine.

I promise you that I will continue doing so. If you can't stand that I'm expressing my opinion and my good experience with Pentax products and will continue doing so regardless of if you like it or not, then you are really having trouble.

I will not apologise for my K10D working fine, I will not apologise for me expressing that my K10D is working fine. I have the right to express my good experience with Pentax, just as you have the right to express your bad experience with Pentax. I can't help that my K10D is not faulty, so you are accusing the wrong person. I simply bought it and it worked! Why can't you accept that I got a fine working unit from Pentax?
10-21-2007, 09:33 AM   #220
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
But negating issues others have with a camera against evidence is irritating.
That is silly and unfair, I simply wrote that my K10D is working fine. Writing that my K10D is working fine is not negating other people's issues. You are reading things into my messages that are not there. It is amusing to read your interpretations, but they are very far from what I actually wrote.
Surely we must all be able to express our opinion and experiencies, even the good ones!
Just becase you have a problem does not automatically mean that everyone else is having the same problem.

My intention is to balance the discussion, because discussions about problems has a tendency to be overblowned. If I see someone that has a problem, and I am not having it, then I write that my K10D does not have it. If you have a problem with this, then it is in your mind because you are reading things into my postings that are not there.

I have the right to express that my K10D is a fine working unit, witout you starting a war because of it.
10-21-2007, 09:39 AM   #221
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You, at least, can't read better than me hen Roland since I clearly written I did NOT have a problem with MY camera.

And you not only replied with "My camera works fine" which indeed is no problem at all (why would that be a problem) to a "The K10D does not show that problem in normal conditions" which is stupid and annoying (this is kind of things I'm after).

I lso a couple weeks ago replied to one of your post because I thought you were going way too far and agreesively in that post and I was not the only one to express that feeling but of course I suppose you won't make the effort to remember that one, will you?

Last edited by thibs; 10-21-2007 at 09:47 AM.
10-21-2007, 09:44 AM   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
And, now it comes out that you regret buying your K10D?! But, you were the RiceHigh from a parallel universe!!
I love my *ist DS and my opinion is that a good lens, like chancing the 18-55 kit zoom to a Limited, is an upgrade that gives more image quality for the money than a camera change. The image quality with the K10D and 18-55 is not that different from the *ist DS with 18-55, but a *ist DS with DA 70 f/2.4 is clearly better than a K10D with 18-55. The K10D is of course a fantastic camera in many ways, I love it too, but the *ist DS is still a fantastic camera even if it's "stoneage". I rather spend my money on lenses than on new and improved bodies. I can't afford buying a camera every 2nd year, I have no money for that. But lenses, that is an investment in better image quality that gives more value for the money than upgrading the camera every 2nd year, yes that is my personal opinion. Now what RiceHigh and "parallel universe" has to do with this, this I don't fully understands???
Well, I do believe I am less interrested in new technology than he his (he is a technician, and I'm not, I'm working with humans by profession). For Pentax, they need to come out with new bodies because the market expects it. But they don't have to do it for me, I don't plan to buy a new camera anytiime soon - I will continue with what I have for the time being, the next years or so.
Some new lenses, yes I will surely buy into some of the new offerings...
10-21-2007, 09:49 AM   #223
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
And you not replaie with "My camera works fine" which indeed is no problem at all (why would that be a problem) to a "The K10D does not show that problem in normal conditions" which is stupid and annoying (this is kind of things I'm after).
I do not understand your point since I have not written "The K10D does not show that problem in normaln conditions". I have written out clearly endless times that when I speak about the K10D, I speak about MY K10D.

There are those with problems, there are those without problems.
When you issue a firmware update for curing problems, what happens with those cameras that does not have problems? Because of this, it is very important to not only tell "I have a problem", it is equally important to tell "I don't have a problem", just to see if it is a general problem with ALL (general problems can be fixed in firmware) or if only some are affected (those problems is a manufacturing issue and not a firmware issue).

Because of this, I will continue to tell when I don't have a problem.
10-21-2007, 09:51 AM   #224
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I lso a couple weeks ago replied to one of your post because I thought you were going way too far and agreesively in that post and I was not the only one to express that feeling but of course I suppose you won't make the effort to remember that one, will you?
I'm sorry that you feel that way, but I can't remember what everyone writes to me. How could I?
I am a member of several forums discussing many different topics and I can't possibly remember what everyone writes to me, if I have mixed you up with someone else then I apologise.
10-21-2007, 09:53 AM   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
I love my *ist DS and my opinion is that a good lens, like chancing the 18-55 kit zoom to a Limited, is an upgrade that gives more image quality for the money than a camera change. The image quality with the K10D and 18-55 is not that different from the *ist DS with 18-55, but a *ist DS with DA 70 f/2.4 is clearly better than a K10D with 18-55. The K10D is of course a fantastic camera in many ways, I love it too, but the *ist DS is still a fantastic camera even if it's "stoneage". I rather spend my money on lenses than on new and improved bodies. I can't afford buying a camera every 2nd year, I have no money for that. But lenses, that is an investment in better image quality that gives more value for the money than upgrading the camera every 2nd year, yes that is my personal opinion.
I won't deny that anytime. I had an istD change to a K10D. Howver about 6 months ago I bought a DL for my father (which is you know that very similar to the DS) and I felt like the DL was quite a nice camera (the little I used it), with a way better handgrip the my D had. I suppose the DS can ojnly be better.

QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
Now what RiceHigh and "parallel universe" has to do with this, this I don't fully understands???
I wouldn't compare you with Ricehigh, that is a bit... "hard" (sorry didn't find any other word to express that feeling) IMO. I would not even bother reading Ricehigh posts. I read yours. Not agreeing with you doesn't mean it has no interest to readyour posts.
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