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12-22-2008, 03:40 AM   #481
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QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
Well Ben, where is the announced 'Pro-grade' Pentax dSLR ?
The K20D is a pro grade DSLR. Ben uses one and he is a pro. What more evidence do you need?

QuoteQuote:
Where is the long-tele ?
Pentax did release the DA Star 300 in spring this year. This is a long tele.

QuoteQuote:
This thread was all about the K20D ?
No, it was also about the K200D.

QuoteQuote:
I can't say it is on par with the Autofocus speed and accuracy of the Nikon D300/D700/D3 AF systems, and also not the Canon 40/50D AF system(which is worse than the Nikon system).
Autofocus is as fast according to tests in swedish magazines in a controlled studio environment (all cameras has the same setup and lighting so results can be comparable). Tests done with kit lenses. Of course it depends a bit which lens one has, and no magazine can test all lenses. But with kit lenses, the differencies was so small it wasn't really noticeable.

12-22-2008, 07:03 AM   #482
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Well lets see what pma brings.. I'm quite surprised they didn't add some sort of video function to the Km as it would've been a feature all those house wives want! Why don't people ever think!?

Like the k20d in a sence had the worlds first video function, but pentax just didn't make the photos into video but it was possible in quicktime.

I hope for their sake they think things through this time...


and in any case PMA this isn't until march this year so they have plenty of time to think
12-22-2008, 10:33 AM   #483
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It's not this board that makes people cynical, it's Pentax...

QuoteOriginally posted by m8o Quote
LOL... Not to single you out; I'm of like mind. It's just Funny how almost every member that's come to this board with refreshing unabashed optimism ends up skeptical & jaded years to sometimes just months later. :ugh:
you get sick of going to events, or camera clubs, or stores, or pretty much anywhere where there's other photographers, some pro, some not, and getting harangued because of your choice of gear. Often I get from the pros some iteration of, "I used to shoot Pentax - beautiful lenses, but their cameras are just ghastly!" And we keep wishing and hoping that the company will bring something out to knock people's socks off, to give us some credibility, some pride, maybe attract some more pros (and BTW, I am one) and they almost do, then chicken out.

We, the Pentaxians, need a pro level camera, just one, once, PLEASE, to gain some credibility in the world. I'm tired of being 'embarrassed', of having to explain my choice of gear, of being sneered at, looked down upon like I'm an idiot or some second class dweeb for using this stuff. Some pros took notice of the K10D and K20D, a few, and that helped; but a really top-notch camera would really go a long way to re-establishing Pentax's lost credibility and market share, and show the photographic world that Pentax is serious and means business. Look what it did for Sony in the DSLR field - they ALREADY have a better rep than Minolta EVER did.

And outside of the camera field, look at Samsung in electronics, or Hyundai; they had NO market share in luxury autos, but they took a chance, a BIG chance, and now they have knocked everybody's socks off. Have you been in a new Sonata? What a GORGEOUS car. Hyundai's serious, and the world now knows it. They're selling MORE than ever. That's what Pentax needs to do - even if they sell 15 of them worldwide. Instead, they (Pentax) are still building 1984 Ponies.

OK, hands up now: if Pentax builds a pro camera for $3-4,000.00, how many of us will buy one? I WILL!!!! If it's any freaking good. I've been waiting and hoping and WISHING for one since 1995! Most of the pros, in the meantime, have GIVEN UP! THEY'VE GONE - YOU'VE LOST THEM.

A lot of the younger pros have NO IDEA of Pentax's old reputation - the 67 and the 645 - and just think it's a 'discount' brand. We need some semblance of compassion from the company to show that maybe, just maybe, they are listening to us HOWL WITH INDIGNATION! It used to be a very loud chorus of BOOS when they did something stupid - now it's geting quieter and quieter as photographers leave, one by one, leaving the dancefloor empty. This time it was just me.... They've pretty much lost ALL the pros now, there's very few left, and they sure aren't doing ANYTHING to get them back or attract new ones. Maybe they'll just be the official camera of Costco and Walmart...

We are in need of some serious gear, and what do we get - white plastic girly-cameras, and ugly ones to boot...



Pentax....PENTAX..... PENTAX!!!!!!

WAKE UP GER GAWD'S SAKE!

Cheeers,
Cameron

Last edited by Cambo; 12-22-2008 at 10:49 AM.
12-22-2008, 10:45 AM   #484
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
The K20D is a pro grade DSLR.
Almost...close, but no cigar. Typical Pentax fashion; no wonder we're cynical.



QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
Pentax did release the DA Star 300 in spring this year. This is a long tele.
I think he meant the pro-grade 2.8 stuff. You know, the kind real camera companies release to show they're serious, that they mean business, they have the passion, the committment, and the dedication to actually take a chance on good top-end camera equipment? Not the wimpy-f=4-we're-afraid-we're-not-really-that-serious-about-this-stuff-ohhh-our-market-share-our-market-share-maybe-somebody-will-buy-a-few-of-these-if-we-make-them-cheap kind of gear and lenses that Pentax always releases.

They're just chicken, that's the ONLY way left to describe this company. COMPLETE AND TOTAL WIMPS.

QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
Autofocus is as fast according to tests in swedish magazines in a controlled studio environment (all cameras has the same setup and lighting so results can be comparable). Tests done with kit lenses. Of course it depends a bit which lens one has, and no magazine can test all lenses. But with kit lenses, the differencies was so small it wasn't really noticeable.
Go to a wedding, or some dark concert, a real location, and try to autofocus quickly and grab a bunch of shots in a row with any Pentax. And while you're there, listen to the guy with the Canon or Nikon beside you going 'BRRATTTTT' at about 8 frames a second while you're waiting for your cache to clear after taking about 5 shots and tell me again we're not SORELY lagging behind in just about evey technological department but one....

WE'VE GOT A WHITE CAMERA!




Cheers,
Cameron


Last edited by Cambo; 12-22-2008 at 10:52 AM.
12-22-2008, 11:06 AM   #485
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the only credibility you need is your photos. the K20D is more than capable as a professional camera. excuse me for being blunt, but your point of view is utterly ridiculous. why the hell do you even care what other people use, or what they think of what you use? 'pro' or not, all I have read from you is that you care more about the name on your gear than the gear itself. go buy a canon, you wont have anymore more of your mentioned problems. if pentax releases a $5,000 FF 'pro' camera that will do 12 FPS will that make you a better photographer, or will it make you feel like one standing next to a canon user? jeez, get real.
12-22-2008, 11:30 AM   #486
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Yeah, it's a little silly.

I'd say, while Pentax could surely benefit from having a prestige model, ...will they turn a profit on it? Not likely, not directly, not now. The pros with the big budgets who are hanging on the latest beta release aren't going to up and change systems just like that if Pentax comes out with a piece of catch-up ball. It's got to be either just right or something really special to really win any converts.

I'm pretty confident performance will improve, by the time I need more than a K20d: part of being professional is *turning a profit,* after all. If I can get the shot on seven hundred in camera, I've got one over on someone who spent three grand, already.

I mean, my little operation here is about working through some disability: I don't want to be held back by gear, cause I have enough complications, but if I had that three grand, I'd invest it in my *health.* Materials, getting more product out there. Stuff like that.

Who knows, they might just have something in the pipeline, already, but hey. If they gotta sell some white cameras (And I think they're kind of neat, actually, not that I'd choose one) to bankroll it, great.
12-22-2008, 11:57 AM   #487
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
Almost...close, but no cigar. Typical Pentax fashion; no wonder we're cynical.





I think he meant the pro-grade 2.8 stuff. You know, the kind real camera companies release to show they're serious, that they mean business, they have the passion, the committment, and the dedication to actually take a chance on good top-end camera equipment? Not the wimpy-f=4-we're-afraid-we're-not-really-that-serious-about-this-stuff-ohhh-our-market-share-our-market-share-maybe-somebody-will-buy-a-few-of-these-if-we-make-them-cheap kind of gear and lenses that Pentax always releases.

They're just chicken, that's the ONLY way left to describe this company. COMPLETE AND TOTAL WIMPS.



Go to a wedding, or some dark concert, a real location, and try to autofocus quickly and grab a bunch of shots in a row with any Pentax. And while you're there, listen to the guy with the Canon or Nikon beside you going 'BRRATTTTT' at about 8 frames a second while you're waiting for your cache to clear after taking about 5 shots and tell me again we're not SORELY lagging behind in just about evey technological department but one....

WE'VE GOT A WHITE CAMERA!




Cheers,
Cameron
Umm...Sounds like your pissed...

Could be worse. It could have been
"PINK"
12-22-2008, 11:57 AM   #488
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Nonsense...

QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
the only credibility you need is your photos. the K20D is more than capable as a professional camera. excuse me for being blunt, but your point of view is utterly ridiculous. why the hell do you even care what other people use, or what they think of what you use? 'pro' or not, all I have read from you is that you care more about the name on your gear than the gear itself. go buy a canon, you wont have anymore more of your mentioned problems. if pentax releases a $5,000 FF 'pro' camera that will do 12 FPS will that make you a better photographer, or will it make you feel like one standing next to a canon user? jeez, get real.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Yeah, it's a little silly.

I'd say, while Pentax could surely benefit from having a prestige model, ...will they turn a profit on it? Not likely, not directly, not now. The pros with the big budgets who are hanging on the latest beta release aren't going to up and change systems just like that if Pentax comes out with a piece of catch-up ball. It's got to be either just right or something really special to really win any converts.

I'm pretty confident performance will improve, by the time I need more than a K20d: part of being professional is *turning a profit,* after all. If I can get the shot on seven hundred in camera, I've got one over on someone who spent three grand, already.

I mean, my little operation here is about working through some disability: I don't want to be held back by gear, cause I have enough complications, but if I had that three grand, I'd invest it in my *health.* Materials, getting more product out there. Stuff like that.

Who knows, they might just have something in the pipeline, already, but hey. If they gotta sell some white cameras (And I think they're kind of neat, actually, not that I'd choose one) to bankroll it, great.
the CAMERA STORES are even bailing on them because they're not seen as credible or serious. This is a company in true jeopardy now and they have to do something to show they are serious IMMEDIATELY. Both Olympus and Sony have far more credibility than Pentax does now, and it is so sad to see how far they have slid in the past 20 years. It is TOTALLY their own fault.

1988:

Pentax 67 - top camera of fashion photographers WORLDWIDE, and one of the top 3 for landscape and archetectural photographers. Also used widely by portrait and studio professionals, and is acknowledged to be one of the finest cameras and lens systems in the world, and completely unique in format and handling.

Pentax 645 - one of the top 3 cameras worldwide for portrait and studio photography, right up there with Hasselblad and Mamiya and possibly Contax. Acknowledged to be one of the finest camera systems in the world.

Pentax 35mm - LX starting to get long in the tooth, but still widely regarded as a great pro camera, but Pentax also stuns the world with the announcement of the world's first autofocus lens. Also, the K1000 is still the top seller worldwide as the entry level camera of choice, and is used throughout the world as a photo student's learning tool.

Fast forward to 2008:

Pentax is first in, er....ah......one of the top three in uh,... well, let's see now...one of the leading companies in...in...

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! But we're hoping to sell a couple of hundred white cameras to some 14 year old girls in February next year.

They are in SERIOUS trouble now. They have lost all credibility and are lagging behind everybody, including Panasonic. They have to do something very quickly.

IMHO. You're free to like the way they're going - straight down the dumper.

Sorry,
Cameron


Last edited by Cambo; 12-22-2008 at 12:05 PM.
12-22-2008, 11:58 AM   #489
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Cambo, you know what they say, "White is the new... pink"
What exactly do you want? That Pentax will make only advanced cameras, even more, cameras that would not be profitable? "Even if they sell 15 worldwide"? Sorry, but... do you want Pentax to die (actually, address your need then die) that badly?
I very much would like to see more advanced Pentax cameras, even a pro speed-demon that would eat Canikons at breakfast. But most of all, I want Pentax to survive, in order to sell me those nice cameras and lenses I can afford
Sorry, going after high-end Canikons is simply not possible; Sony is trying that, somehow, but Sony seems prepared to lose big money in this fight (Pentax/Hoya isn't!). If you really need the speed, you really should jump ship (keeping a Pentax and few lenses if you want/can).

However, I think we'll see some technological advancements in the next models. Pentax could have few pleasant surprises for 2009
But that's 2009, not 2008 so don't be upset it Pentax painted it's latest entry level white. It's not the time yet.

Btw, in Romania Pentax is very credible on the DSLRs market - much so than Sony or Olympus I'd say.
And in 2008 they launched the K20D, remember?
12-22-2008, 12:05 PM   #490
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"the CAMERA STORES are even bailing on them because they're not seen as credible or serious. "

Actually, the camera stores and chains, long since in some trouble because most of the money's been in film processing for years, are interested in *volume,* is what it is. They don't stock a900s, either, those that are left.

If putting a white case on something gets the brand in the stores, that's a good thing for all involved.
12-22-2008, 12:19 PM   #491
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No kidding I'm pissed...

QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Umm...Sounds like your pissed...

Could be worse. It could have been
"PINK"
A white ******* camera. Unbelievable. Those IDIOTS! Pink...Nah...that would've been smart, that would actually work, and it would've taken some GUTS! Panasonic will do it first, and outsell the Pentax 400/1.

Nice to see you Ben, btw. I got a new bass rig - Bergantino IP cabinets with Bang & Olufsen Poweramps built in, Summit Audio tube preamp and tube compressor and a tc electronic stereo parametric EQ. Sounds like GOD! 1,000 watts of ooey gooey tubey goodness. Can lay waste to 2 SVT fridges, and fits in the trunk of my car. The Summit stuff is amazing - high end recording gear - check them out. Makes bass equipment sound like toys.




And now, back to our regular programming....

"PENTAX IS DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Cheers,
Cameron
12-22-2008, 12:23 PM   #492
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
The surprise was that what I expected didn't happen...
Another 60-250mm delay announcement?
12-22-2008, 12:24 PM   #493
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QuoteQuote:
the CAMERA STORES are even bailing on them because they're not seen as credible or serious
im no fool so do not reply to me as if I am one.

your basically saying that because pentax isn't professional enough stores don't stock them... do you even think about what you are saying? that makes no sense what so ever. seriously none what so ever.

QuoteQuote:
They are in SERIOUS trouble now. They have lost all credibility and are lagging behind everybody, including Panasonic. They have to do something very quickly.
please show me evidence of how they have lost all credibility, also please show me evidence of how they are lagging behind everybody, especially panasonic. if you cant show me evidence of these, I would appreciate it if you would stop spreading misinformation. your almost as bad as ricehigh.

QuoteQuote:
IMHO. You're free to like the way they're going - straight down the dumper.
evidence please? and FYI, I am not concerned with what Pentax is doing, because I know they are making some very intelligent moves, they are also still recovering and restructuring from a takeover. either way my pentax cameras will continue to work, and continue to take wonderful photographs in capable hands. including my new K-m. oh wait sorry, that's not professional enough.


also, stop being a troll. seriously, now your just looking for attention and its pathetic. grow up.
12-22-2008, 12:26 PM   #494
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
A white ******* camera. Unbelievable. Those IDIOTS! Pink...Nah...that would've been smart, that would actually work, and it would've taken some GUTS! Panasonic will do it first, and outsell the Pentax 400/1.

Nice to see you Ben, btw. I got a new bass rig - Bergantino IP cabinets with Bang & Olufsen Poweramps built in, Summit Audio tube preamp and tube compressor and a tc electronic stereo parametric EQ. Sounds like GOD! 1,000 watts of ooey gooey tubey goodness. Can lay waste to 2 SVT fridges, and fits in the trunk of my car. The Summit stuff is amazing - high end recording gear - check them out. Makes bass equipment sound like toys.




And now, back to our regular programming....

"PENTAX IS DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Cheers,
Cameron
That is friggen awesome!!! Wow...You have inspired me to go listen to 3 HOURS of "MUSE"...

Ben
12-22-2008, 12:27 PM   #495
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
you get sick of going to events, or camera clubs, or stores, or pretty much anywhere where there's other photographers, some pro, some not, and getting harangued because of your choice of gear. ...etc...
wow, this thread is officially now in "high gear!"

I said my snide/cynical little remark mainly because of what's just happened w/the 60-250/4; what a laugh and the last straw for me at least in giving Pentax any credibility to be more than just a "me too" player.

I personally believe the K2*D series cameras are fantastic, even ignoring their price not because of how affordable they are on top of it..... even given I'll agree your "Go to a wedding, or some dark concert, a real location, and try to autofocus quickly and grab a bunch of shots in a row with any Pentax." Aside from Pentax's recent history on release of glass I want to buy, that's the only criticism I'd back; not enough to enrage me to flames however or give up my commitment to their format. And after all, being different than everybody else played a role in my decision to make Pentax my first foray into D-SLRs.

Last edited by m8o; 12-22-2008 at 12:33 PM.
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