[vinzer]

Like I say in numerous forums, if a camera system cannot satiate your needs and wants, it's easy to move elsewhere. Saves you time and consternation.

[247nino]

I sometimes shoot in low light as well and have experienced hunting...
I shoot at night clubs and sometimes on the street...

I had to find a way to have my camera focus faster, although my camera was focusing slower than the other photographers, my image quality is superior. So I bought Sima sl-10lx LED lights and attached them to my flash and they help my camera focus like its day time.

I bought 3 at about $20 each. Ive also used them in my photoshoots where my location is dark and I cant bring in hot lights or open windows(I shoot in abandoned buildings).

so that said,
I agree that pentax needs to beef up some specs like AF, frame rate and [cant really think of anything else]

im very happy with the build of the bodies, glass and most importantly the image quality.
Having purchased my K10D in dec 2006 for $750 and my K20D in may for $740, I dont have much to complain about because Ive seen other results from my friends shooting with 40d, 50d, 5d, d200, d300, d700, and d3; the only one that is better in terms of image quality is the D3.

[take]

I had to find a way to have my camera focus faster, although my camera was focusing slower than the other photographers, my image quality is superior. So I bought Sima sl-10lx LED lights and attached them to my flash and they help my camera focus like its day time.

Interesting solution!

Does it function like a torch light while you used it with K10D? I mean always on?

[séamuis]

Yup. And that mirror going 'Ker-LAK!' like the recoil from a 12 guage shotgun blast. Magnificent machine. All in the dim dark past, I'm afraid. The company is teetering on the brink of total demise, totally lost in a vast blank mindless void, a marketing wasteland, and they come out with 'The White ******* Plastic Gawd**** Camera Bail-out Plan'...yeah, that'll work. People will REALLY want to buy your other cameras after seeing that litte baby...

your obviously not going to heed my advice and grow up, or at least post more intelligent responses. obviously because you are just being a forum troll at this point and in all honesty as waste of my time. however you really need to stop spreading misinformation. I will pose my question once again. CAN YOU PLEASE SHOW EVIDENCE? actually don't bother, because you are going on my ignore list after this post anyhow.

the 6x7 did not have 'recoil' like a 12 gauge shotgun, in fact it can be handled and produce excellent results. you obviously know pretty much nothing about it. if it was so bad then why has it been used and praised since 1969, and still used to this day? the camera was targeted as a landscape camera, so it would be on a tripod most of the time anyway. it was also updated with MLU, which makes your whole point completely moot. it also has the widest range of lenses available for any medium format camera. the 6x7, 67 & 67II are some of the best MF cameras ever produced. Sam Haskins has used the 6x7 since 1970, and was associated with pentax until 2000. that speaks volumes for the camera that in your words is 'All in the dim dark past.' especially seeing as how he also was associated with hasselblad and mamiya.
ya know it isnt your childish rants that annoy me, it isnt even your spreading of misinformation to try and prove some obscure ridiculous point. what annoys me the most about you, is that you actually believe the people here are stupid enough to buy your bullshit. that annoys me to no end.

why not do all of us (yourself included) a big favor. sell off your pentax equipment, switch to canon (for your obvious love of machine gunning to get photos) and leave this forum. if you do not want to contribute anything or behave approprietly ie: not being a troll, then you have no reason to be here.

[Priyantha Bleeker]

The K20D is a pro grade DSLR. Ben uses one and he is a pro. What more evidence do you need?

Well that's no evidence in my opinion Ben is a great photographer and a great 'pro'.
The camera itself is just not on-par with the competition like the Canon, Nikon and even Sony's(A700) versions.

Pentax did release the DA Star 300 in spring this year. This is a long tele.

Yes they did, that's not the long-tele I meant, like a 400mm F2.8(mind the fast aperture) or something longer maybe a long tele-zoom ?
No they didn't release any of this kind.
Yes they did release a DA* 200 F2.8(a FA* 200 F2.8 in another housing...), and yes a DA* 300mm F4.0....nothing really special if you compare it with the other OEM makers.

No, it was also about the K200D.

All the buzz about those to camera's a K10D Mk2(in my eyes, yes a great cam...) and a K100D with seals and the sensor from the K20D...

Autofocus is as fast according to tests in swedish magazines in a controlled studio environment (all cameras has the same setup and lighting so results can be comparable). Tests done with kit lenses. Of course it depends a bit which lens one has, and no magazine can test all lenses. But with kit lenses, the differencies was so small it wasn't really noticeable.

This is even the worst....
Yes I and all the others here do know you are 'the' Pentax fanboy out here, but you can't seriously mean that one test from one Swedish magazine is leading in this matter.
No I just can't believe it.
I do shoot a lot with my K20D in combination with my DA* 16-50 F2.8 in very dim lightning(on party's in clubs) with my AF 540 FGZ flash, also helping the AF(without it doesn't even lock!).
A girlfriend who is using a Sony A300 (which is in another league of the K20D in my opinion) is even faster...a friend of mine is using a old Canon 20D in combination with a 550EX flash and kitlens(18-55) and that combination blows my combination away when we compare in speed.
And let's not talk about the Canon 1D(s) mkII(and III) which is used by others

So NO the AF performance is NOT on par with the competition despite one test of a Swedish magazine.

[Priyantha Bleeker]

Almost...close, but no cigar. Typical Pentax fashion; no wonder we're cynical.

I can't disagree here with you

I think he meant the pro-grade 2.8 stuff. You know, the kind real camera companies release to show they're serious, that they mean business, they have the passion, the committment, and the dedication to actually take a chance on good top-end camera equipment? Not the wimpy-f=4-we're-afraid-we're-not-really-that-serious-about-this-stuff-ohhh-our-market-share-our-market-share-maybe-somebody-will-buy-a-few-of-these-if-we-make-them-cheap kind of gear and lenses that Pentax always releases.

Yes exactly yes. I meant the pro-grade F2.8 stuff, like good 70-200 F2.8 and a good 24-70 F2.8 maybe a 14-24ish(like Nikon has now ?) FF of course, so we can use them also on film and on a FF digital body in the future.
And of course the longer tele-primes like a 300mm F2.8, a 400mm F2.8, a 500mm F4 ? A 600mm F4 ?
Maybe a 80-400 zoom ? Or/And a 200-400 ?

They're just chicken, that's the ONLY way left to describe this company. COMPLETE AND TOTAL WIMPS.

Well I don't agree here fully But I can't say they are really showing their teeth's here to the competition.

Go to a wedding, or some dark concert, a real location, and try to autofocus quickly and grab a bunch of shots in a row with any Pentax. And while you're there, listen to the guy with the Canon or Nikon beside you going 'BRRATTTTT' at about 8 frames a second while you're waiting for your cache to clear after taking about 5 shots and tell me again we're not SORELY lagging behind in just about evey technological department but one....

Yes so true, I have the same experiences.

[awo425]

*After* making a fast 85. Ok, really, I can wait.

Edit: Oh, wait a minute, there's that 77. Proceed.

77 lim although is an excellent lens is in no way a substitute for FA*85 1.4
One can tell this by looking at the price in FleEbay or marketplace forum.

And comparing it to 85/1.2 L is, well, let's not even get there.

[Kunzite]

So, let's see... you want:
- pro cameras, like Canon (the same AF, build quality, weight and so on)
- pro lenses, like Canon (the same focal lengths, similar construction, white with a red strip, insanely fast telephotos with insane pricing)
- pro support, like Canon
- everything should be branded Canon, as we all know people will look down on you if you're using a Pentax
Well, one possible solution is to persuade Pentax to meet those criteria. I'm thinking, maybe, just maybe there could be an easier solution...

P.S. Even if I had the money and a sudden need for a such focal length I wouldn't buy a 400mm f/2.8 lens. Almost 6 kilos, and 6800$ for the Canon version. Not something I would want to pay or carry.

[séamuis]

77 lim although is an excellent lens is in no way a substitute for FA*85 1.4
One can tell this by looking at the price in FleEbay or marketplace forum.

And comparing it to 85/1.2 L is, well, let's not even get there.

ebay cannot be trusted in terms of market value, most of the time neither can our marketplace. and yes lets not go there seeing as how the 77mm Ltd. and the 85mm L are two completely different lenses. if you want to compare two 85s then compare the FA or A * lenses

[jeffkrol]

77 lim although is an excellent lens is in no way a substitute for FA*85 1.4
One can tell this by looking at the price in FleEbay or marketplace forum.

And comparing it to 85/1.2 L is, well, let's not even get there.

85 was designed specifically as a portrait lens meaning optimal bokeh ect. but not necessarily sharpness wide open. 77 was not, only as the best (at the time) and with the best coating (ghostless) that they could make...
At least that is my understanding of it...............
I have no idea as to the "philosophy" behind the Canon (if indeed anything other than making money or stretching their muscle).

[Cambo]

Cambo, you're still ranting about the white camera. Hmm, as you list your occupation as a graphic designer, I'm surprised you're still not open enough to accept such a colour for such a product...

If you're disappointed and unhappy that Pentax has little more to offer, then why not do the right thing and make the switch to some other brand rather than hold out and complaining about it. I'm sure some other brand have the right tools for you. Better to be happy rather than prolong your misery.

It's not really the white camera I'm bitching about, it's the timing of the white camera and how they made such a 'big deal' out of the white camera, like it was going to be some marvelous technical innovation. While Rome burns...

your obviously not going to heed my advice and grow up, or at least post more intelligent responses. obviously because you are just being a forum troll at this point and in all honesty as waste of my time. however you really need to stop spreading misinformation. I will pose my question once again. CAN YOU PLEASE SHOW EVIDENCE? actually don't bother, because you are going on my ignore list after this post anyhow.

the 6x7 did not have 'recoil' like a 12 gauge shotgun, in fact it can be handled and produce excellent results. you obviously know pretty much nothing about it. if it was so bad then why has it been used and praised since 1969, and still used to this day? the camera was targeted as a landscape camera, so it would be on a tripod most of the time anyway. it was also updated with MLU, which makes your whole point completely moot. it also has the widest range of lenses available for any medium format camera. the 6x7, 67 & 67II are some of the best MF cameras ever produced. Sam Haskins has used the 6x7 since 1970, and was associated with pentax until 2000. that speaks volumes for the camera that in your words is 'All in the dim dark past.' especially seeing as how he also was associated with hasselblad and mamiya.
ya know it isnt your childish rants that annoy me, it isnt even your spreading of misinformation to try and prove some obscure ridiculous point. what annoys me the most about you, is that you actually believe the people here are stupid enough to buy your bullshit. that annoys me to no end.

why not do all of us (yourself included) a big favor. sell off your pentax equipment, switch to canon (for your obvious love of machine gunning to get photos) and leave this forum. if you do not want to contribute anything or behave approprietly ie: not being a troll, then you have no reason to be here.

If you read on, you will see my thoughts on the Pentax 67, one of the greatest cameras of all times. And yes, it recoiled like an SOB, which is why they had to put a mirror lock on it, or you had to use the shuttered lenses.

And why did Sam Haskins switch again....? Wonder if he's upgrading to the white camera...

Well that's no evidence in my opinion Ben is a great photographer and a great 'pro'.
The camera itself is just not on-par with the competition like the Canon, Nikon and even Sony's(A700) versions.

Thank you, and they'll soon be lagging behind Panasonic and Olympus unless they do more than change the colour of the plastic on the outside of their cameras.

A lot of you are completely misreading what I am trying to say. There's nothing 'wrong' with the white camera, they could easily make them green or with an American Flag on it, I don't care, what I really care about is the company, Pentax, is under attack FROM ALL SIDES and from a BUNCH of new players, BIG new players, and they make a big deal out of a plastic colour change. Nice...

Yes they did, that's not the long-tele I meant, like a 400mm F2.8(mind the fast aperture) or something longer maybe a long tele-zoom ?No they didn't release any of this kind. Yes they did release a DA* 200 F2.8(a FA* 200 F2.8 in another housing...), and yes a DA* 300mm F4.0....nothing really special if you compare it with the other OEM makers.

Exactly. They've got to get serious NOW or they're in big trouble. Look what Leica, a company teetering on the brink, came out with; a Medium format DSLR and 9 lenses! Now they're serious. And the effects of this will trickle down as sales to their other stuff.

All the buzz about those to camera's a K10D Mk2(in my eyes, yes a great cam...) and a K100D with seals and the sensor from the K20D...

Yup; minor upgrades. I sure hope they're working on something BIG, cause they REALLY need it now. Before they were just doing battle with Canon and Nikon; now they've got Sony and Panasonic to worry about as well. They are going to be crushed if they don't do something soon, I tell ya. I'm here cause I love the lenses, but this company is in some serious trouble with this AND the world economy tanking.

This is even the worst....
Yes I and all the others here do know you are 'the' Pentax fanboy out here, but you can't seriously mean that one test from one Swedish magazine is leading in this matter.
No I just can't believe it.
I do shoot a lot with my K20D in combination with my DA* 16-50 F2.8 in very dim lightning(on party's in clubs) with my AF 540 FGZ flash, also helping the AF(without it doesn't even lock!). A girlfriend who is using a Sony A300 (which is in another league of the K20D in my opinion) is even faster...a friend of mine is using a old Canon 20D in combination with a 550EX flash and kitlens(18-55) and that combination blows my combination away when we compare in speed.
And let's not talk about the Canon 1D(s) mkII(and III) which is used by others

So NO the AF performance is NOT on par with the competition despite one test of a Swedish magazine.

Thank you. Pentax is not even in the same LEAGUE - they are so far behind it is truly mind boggling. I personally can't believe they let it get this bad. Go try a big Canon or Nikon OR NOW A SONY (!!!!) and you'll see what focussing should be like. Take it to the darkest part of the store, swing it around madly with the shutter button depressed. YOU, the Pentax owner, will soon be the one who's 'depressed'.

In low light, I'm lucky if I get two shots off before the hunting and pecking occur. And I usually borrow a friends K20D (nice camera, but...) because the *ist D is SO freaking bad, but it hunts and pecks like crazy as well. I'm a musician, and I shoot a lot of live bands in very low light, often side by side with other pro Canon and Nikon users. I miss A LOT of shots - they don't. BRRRRAATTTTTTT! It's just humiliating; it really is. Real-world low-light AF performance of Pentax cameras right up to and including the K20D is SERIOUSLY bad - not even close. I hear them beside me firing away while mine is still going back and forth - vrrrrnt - vrrrnt - I usually switch to manual focus cause I just can't stand it anymore. And you can't rely on the auto-focus assist light on a big flash gun to help in a lot of sitations, as you're not allowed to use flash AT ALL in a lot of venues.

I can't disagree here with you Yes exactly yes. I meant the pro-grade F2.8 stuff, like good 70-200 F2.8 and a good 24-70 F2.8 maybe a 14-24ish(like Nikon has now ?) FF of course, so we can use them also on film and on a FF digital body in the future. And of course the longer tele-primes like a 300mm F2.8, a 400mm F2.8, a 500mm F4 ? A 600mm F4 ? Maybe a 80-400 zoom ? Or/And a 200-400 ? Well I don't agree here fully But I can't say they are really showing their teeth's here to the competition.

Yes so true, I have the same experiences.

They really do have to show they're serious and they're in this for keeps now - all the other companies have. And if you think battling Canon was tough, that will be looked back on fondly as 'the good old days'...Sony and Panasonic will CRUSH them...come on now. They're in deep doo-doo now, WAY more than they've ever been. And they're just rolling over and playing dead. That is why the White ******* camera pisses me off so much. DO YOU GUYS GET IT YET?

So, let's see... you want:
- pro cameras, like Canon (the same AF, build quality, weight and so on)
- pro lenses, like Canon (the same focal lengths, similar construction, white with a red strip, insanely fast telephotos with insane pricing)
- pro support, like Canon
- everything should be branded Canon, as we all know people will look down on you if you're using a Pentax. Well, one possible solution is to persuade Pentax to meet those criteria. I'm thinking, maybe, just maybe there could be an easier solution...

P.S. Even if I had the money and a sudden need for a such focal length I wouldn't buy a 400mm f/2.8 lens. Almost 6 kilos, and 6800$ for the Canon version. Not something I would want to pay or carry.

I am trying to goad this totally somnabulent company into some action NOW before it's too late. AND SO SHOULD YOU! We know they listen to these forums, and you guys are applauding their piddly-asses little gestures as if they were a good thing - IT'S NOT. This company SERIOUSLY needs to get a grip NOW and get some pro stuff out there to show they are truly in this game, or they are about to get ANNIHILATED. The effects trickle down, even if they GIVE the stuff away to some pros, just to get the name out there and show their technical merit and capabilities. That's how it's done in this game, sorry, and a little also ran company like Pentax is now isn't going to change it. They need to muster up some gonads and throw a punch before it's too late.

Don't applaud they're BS. Pentax really needs to get a grip this time, or there truly won't be a Pentax really soon. I know people have been saying this for a long time, but times have truly changed, and there's some big guns in this now that are TOTALLY serious. The economy is tanking, massive bucks are pouring into digital photography, and Pentax makes a big announcement about a white plastic camera that is NO DIFFERENT from their black plastic camera. As I said, fiddling while Rome burns.

Just my $.02, but don't say I didn't warn you. It's a whole new ballgame now...

But anyway, Merry Christmas everyone, or whatever you and your loved ones celebrate this season. All the best for 2009.

Cheers,
Cameron
Pentaxian

[séamuis]

If you read on, you will see my thoughts on the Pentax 67, one of the greatest cameras of all times. And yes, it recoiled like an SOB, which is why they had to put a mirror lock on it, or you had to use the shuttered lenses.

And why did Sam Haskins switch again....? Wonder if he's upgrading to the white camera...

no it does not 'recoil' that doesn't even make sense. MLU is a useful feature on pentax cameras, since all pentax's have had a rather powerful mirror action, this is something any pentax shooter that has used their products for as long as you say you have should know. but it has never been so bad as to call it 'recoil' and you know that. again the 6x7 (even non MLU) is perfectly capable of hand held shots. and no you don't 'have' to use shutter lenses.

I never said he switched, I said he was affiliated with pentax ie: sponsored by and used their equipment to help promote pentax. as far as I know he still uses pentax MF equipment, among other brands. your lame joke is just that. lame.

It's not really the white camera I'm bitching about, it's the timing of the white camera and how they made such a 'big deal' out of the white camera, like it was going to be some marvelous technical innovation. While Rome burns...

that is a flat out lie. you have done nothing but bitch about this camera. and has already been mentioned, pentax did not make a big deal out of this. the people on this forum, in particular you, made a big deal out of this. this was a minor announcement from pentax, and the majority of us here have already come to that conclusion. you are just hell bent an making it 'big' so as to continue your childish rant.

Exactly. They've got to get serious NOW or they're in big trouble. Look what Leica, a company teetering on the brink, came out with; a Medium format DSLR and 9 lenses! Now they're serious. And the effects of this will trickle down as sales to their other stuff.

leica has always been serious, and expensive. they are only alive today because of private funds from leicaphiles. their new camera will do nothing to get leica to the masses, or change their current situation or market share. if those private funds stop leica would die out extremely quickly. and seeing as how nobody can afford this new 'serious' camera, it is just as ridiculous as you say the new white k-m is.

BRRRRAATTTTTTT! It's just humiliating

only to you it is. this is not a requirement for all 'pros'. you have reiterated this point so many times its ridiculous. why not just buy a canon and move on? if what you need is that kind of FPS then buy a camera that can do that.

DO YOU GUYS GET IT YET?

no, we dont.

I am trying to goad this totally somnabulent company into some action NOW before it's too late

right and "PENTAX IS DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" is how you plan on doing that huh? no. the only thing you are doing is bitching.

I couldn't block you yet as I was hoping you'd give some better responses. well I was still disappointed...

[awo425]

ebay cannot be trusted in terms of market value, most of the time neither can our marketplace.

And what can be trusted in terms of market value in your opinion?

[awo425]

85 was designed specifically as a portrait lens meaning optimal bokeh ect. but not necessarily sharpness wide open. 77 was not, only as the best (at the time) and with the best coating (ghostless) that they could make...
At least that is my understanding of it...............
I have no idea as to the "philosophy" behind the Canon (if indeed anything other than making money or stretching their muscle).

Indeed the philosophy of photographers buying 50mm and 85mm F1.2 L lenses is helping Canon, Nikon, etc. stretch there muscles. I completely agree with you. In fact even people lusting after K50 1.2 are doing it for the same reason.

[Supernaut]

It's not really the white camera I'm bitching about, it's the timing of the white camera and how they made such a 'big deal' out of the white camera, like it was going to be some marvelous technical innovation.

Can you pls describe who made a big deal of the white k-m? I see it as a monster that just grew on forums. Maybe you were part of this? Was there actually said to be big from any corporate sources?