[and]

Didnt Nikon have a 300 f2 before as well.

[RMabo]

I highly doubt that either Benji or Codiac are spreading unfounded propaganda; Pentax Japan has been known throughout it history to keep its international arms in the dark.

It wouldn't surprise me if some distributors (Pentax US and Pentax France) has got beta-versions, pre-production models, of the new camera(s) - this was what happened with the K10D. It was on a "test drive" at many distributors several weeks before it was officially announced last fall.

Take care
R

[TDN]

I think you are right if you're introducing a point and shoot camera. But I don't think the sales for $1000 plus cameras are up there with other consumer products such as $150.00 Zunes, Ipods, and stereos. These things, I feel, would sell better in spring as people anticipate vacations and have paid off their Christmas debt. Most people for Christmas have to buy multiple gifts and ration their funds. Only small portions of people are going to spend $1000 plus for a dSLR during the holidays. I could be wrong, but I don't think so in this case. A $300 dSLR, maybe. But a pro model, nah, not during the holidays.

You make a good point there. Perhaps it won't be as big a market share as the other manufacturers make it seem, but I do think that the whole "buying spirit" of those times has some effect on DSLR sales. Maybe not as a gift for others, but as a gift to yourself

The K10D was out before Christmas, I got mine in November.

Then I stand corrected

[thosan]

Hmm, this thread and the K20D thread has put some doubts in my mind. I was pretty set on upgrading from my canon s3 is to a K10D with the kit lens and a tamron 70-300.
But since I'm a bit of a gadget freak and always like new a shiny stuff, i can't decide if i should go with the K10D or wait and see what they announce in January.
Decision, decisions....

[regken]

You make a good point there. Perhaps it won't be as big a market share as the other manufacturers make it seem, but I do think that the whole "buying spirit" of those times has some effect on DSLR sales. Maybe not as a gift for others, but as a gift to yourself

My ex partner in marketing ( a fellow countryman of yours by the way) would have loved to go into the Christmas season with the present Pentax lineup. The largest segment of the market is the first time DSLR buyer that has been using an advanced digicam. Compare pricing of a Canon XT, Nikon D40, and a Pentax K100D super with a stabilized super zoom lens. Also compare the pricing of a Canon Xti, Nikon D40 10MP, and a Pentax K10D equipped with the same lens. Now throw in a $100 to $150 rebate on the Pentax models. Those two "Christmas Specials" would put Pentax in a backorder situation that would extend into January.

[Harald]

In all honesty, if I never tried to do sports action photography I probably would have stuck with Pentax and lived with the other (relatively minor) issues I mentioned.

It is interesting that despite it that I shoot Icehockey at regular weekly basis during the season I have stuck with Pentax... and I would call shooting icehockey as sports action photography. Obviously your needs are more serious than mine in that respect

K10D and Sigma EX 70-200/2.8 DG focusing speed have been very well suitable to that task without any reservations.

Only thing I have noticed is that battery must be full and you have to change it well before the gauge shows any warnings. But you can actually hear it when you have to change battery. Focusing becames audible, you can hear the focus motor/gears. If battery is fully loaded, focusing is almoust silent, but when battery starts deplete, sound becames audible. But still there is no need for battery exhange during the game if you started with full battery. This is only an issue you have to work around with very simple actions.

I have never shoot sports with machinegun style, so the slower speed and smaller buffer are no issues for me. I have tried this with very speedy gears, but I only lost the good, precise timed shots, and got bucket full of rubbish....

So the choice of your gear obviously depends on how you are accustomed to work.
With my style of shooting I wouldnt get any benefits over the Pentax gear by choosing Nikon or Canon gear. Only my wallet would have been very very much thinner than it is now after buying comparable gears. (D200 + grip + AF-S 70-200/2.8 G IF-ED VR )

[benjikan]

It is interesting that despite it that I shoot Icehockey at regular weekly basis during the season I have stuck with Pentax... and I would call shooting icehockey as sports action photography. Obviously your needs are more serious than mine in that respect

K10D and Sigma EX 70-200/2.8 DG focusing speed have been very well suitable to that task without any reservations.

Only thing I have noticed is that battery must be full and you have to change it well before the gauge shows any warnings. But you can actually hear it when you have to change battery. Focusing becames audible, you can hear the focus motor/gears. If battery is fully loaded, focusing is almoust silent, but when battery starts deplete, sound becames audible. But still there is no need for battery exhange during the game if you started with full battery. This is only an issue you have to work around with very simple actions.

I have never shoot sports with machinegun style, so the slower speed and smaller buffer are no issues for me. I have tried this with very speedy gears, but I only lost the good, precise timed shots, and got bucket full of rubbish....

So the choice of your gear obviously depends on how you are accustomed to work.
With my style of shooting I wouldnt get any benefits over the Pentax gear by choosing Nikon or Canon gear. Only my wallet would have been very very much thinner than it is now after buying comparable gears. (D200 + grip + AF-S 70-200/2.8 G IF-ED VR )

I owned the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 when I was sponsored by Canon. One of the best lenses Sigma manufactures. Onpar with the best out there. Great choice.

Ben

[PaulAndAPentax]

I owned the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 when I was sponsored by Canon. One of the best lenses Sigma manufactures. Onpar with the best out there. Great choice.

Ben

I hope this will be one of my next lenses. I have heard good things. I have also been looking at the 300 f/2.8 and trying to find more information. With a converter you'd have a working 420 f/4 and a 600 f/5.6. For my funds availability, either lens would serve me well...

[Harald]

I owned the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 when I was sponsored by Canon. One of the best lenses Sigma manufactures. Onpar with the best out there. Great choice.

Ben

Yes indeed. I have nothing but good to say about this baby. One thing, maybe two: It is not Pentax, and it do not have Quick Shift....

[GaryML]

Didnt Nikon have a 300 f2 before as well.

Yes, introduced in 1984, it weighs 16.6 lbs and cost $21,000! The front element has 160mm filter threads. It was widely used at the 1984 Olympic games in L.A. It came with it's own matched 1.4X tele-converter.

[and]

Pentax also had a prototype 300 f2 that never made it into production.

[ZaphodB]

The problem with "where will Pentax be when time for upgrade comes" will be arising every time some other brand pulls another new toy from a hat and Pentax does not respond within weeks. Every time some people will herald doomsday for Pentax, and others will insatiably gulp rumors to make them sure that "they've made the right choice".

But the thing is, we aren't suddenly and irrationally reacting to Pentax being a couple of weeks late in responding to the another company's latest toy... no, many of us are responding to Pentax being several years behind all the competition in terms of lens choice (i.e. virtually no long glass at all), and also a little bit cautious about camera bodies because for years now Pentax have basically re-released the same camera (*Ist DS/DL/DS2/DL2/K100D/K110D/K100d-Super) with some minor improvements... the K10d was the only real exception, and it was very encouraging... until the company went completely silent, and was pretty late delivering their two higher-end zooms (which after all that wait frankly should be having better reviews and less reported problems)... as for why people would predict a "doomsday"... let's not forget that they were eaten up by another company, who were not exactly forthcoming with announcements promising their dedication to keeping and improving Pentax camera division. So to my mind there are plenty of good reasons for the worries and complaints; we're not just looking at a new Canikon and thinking "Oh no, Pentax doesn't make one like that!"

Well... I don't live on rumors. Hence, I just purchased two k10d cameras (one for my wife and one for me) along with some lenses and accessories. If this happens to be the last camera Pentax produces, so what. I'm sure we will enjoy many years of picture making with our cameras and have opportunities through third party lens makers to add to the system. I researched my purchase carefully for months. I purposely chose Pentax over Nikon and Canon (having had both of those brands in the past along with Minolta and we all know what happened to that venerable company).

Then again, I'm not one of those who stands in line at the check-out of our local supermarket and becomes enthralled by the latest rumors relating to the lives of Hollywood's so-called stars. I find rumor mills silly and mundane.

I'm glad you're confident that it would not inconvenience you if Pentax were to disappear... though personally I wouldn't be so sure about third-parties continuing to make lenses for Pentax in that situation, considering that they can't be bothered to make their best glass for Pentax even now.

I don't stand in line at the check-out reading celebrity magazines with dumb one-syllable titles either... I couldn't care less about who is doing what with whom... but this is really not comparable to worrying about camera systems. I haven't invested lots of money in Angelina Jolie, nor do I have a cupboard full of Lindsey Lohan which I won't be able to sell if she goes out of business.

I totally agree with your last sentence though... rumour mills are very silly... what I would like to see are announcements... and ok fine, let's say Pentax have a camera so spectacular that they have to keep it secret... I still haven't heard a remotely convincing argument for why they can't at least tell us about the new lenses.

At the end of the day if, as you say, the CaNikon lineup is more availble, or better or whatever, why do folks like you not own that system instead of Pentax? I suspect that there is one main reason, and that is simply the cost differential of owning CaNikon over Pentax.

So, given that, what everyone seems to want is everything CaNikon has, but they do not want to pay for it....

After all, if this is not true, those complaining would have just bellied up to the bar and put their money down for a CaNikon system, no?

Ray

Not at all... I don't want what Canon has (crappy entry-level stuff, cameras lacking in features and seemingly only designed for people with 20/20 vision who don't mind peering down tiny dark viewfinders, and terrible service in my experience)... nor do I want Nikon (overpriced gear with underwhelming features because they can afford to be complacent)... what I want is Pentax. The Pentax who produced the A and FA range of lenses. The Pentax who produced the LX, the MZ-S and yes the K10d. Not the Pentax who lazily knock out a "Super" version of the same camera they've been re-releasing for years... I don't want Canon and Nikon, I want Pentax to follow up their impressive achievement with the K10d by continuing to improve and expand the system (which means both lenses and bodies). I am one of those folks complaining... and no, I don't want a CaNikon system... I want a Pentax system, but proper Pentax.

I owned the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 when I was sponsored by Canon. One of the best lenses Sigma manufactures. Onpar with the best out there. Great choice.

Absolutely... a fantastic lens. And not even slightly available for Pentax any more. Ditto other high-end Sigma and Tamron lenses which they don't make for K-mount... maybe they might if they were a bit more confident in the system or had any idea what Pentax are planning to do with SDM?


Finally, thankyou Ben, Marc, Chris, and everyone else who seems to be in the know... you have told us all you can... I just think it is a real shame that you had to do so, and be met by doubts and barrages of questions... none of this would be necessary if Pentoya weren't doing such a good impression of a clam (a clam pretending to be dead even).

[Richard Day]

So, here's a question I hope those under NDA should be able to answer:

Assuming someone had a *ist, or someone was looking to switch to Pentax from a Nikon D70, or Canon EOS 300D. So, someone with a camera that works well enough, but is thinking of replacing it sometime in the not too distant future.

Based upon your knowledge of what the "BIG" announcement in January will be, would such a person be better off waiting until January, or should they get a K10d now?

The K10D is great value at the moment, it's price has dropped a fair amount since introduction and is a huge improvement over the istD models in ALL respects (I had an istD, now belongs to one of my sons).

The likelyhood that an upgrade/replacement for the K10D will be at a similar price point for some while is most unlikely. If you can afford to spend a fair bit more (30%?) than the K10D now costs and are happy with your *ist body for the interim period (could be late spring before new bodies are really available) then I'd wait until then.

Personally I will probably get the new camera (unless it's a dog of course! ) and keep my K10D as a second body.

[Richard Day]

The K10D was out before Christmas, I got mine in November.

So did I, but it was announced at PMA in February 06!

Maybe the next new one will be similar?

[and]

Personally I will probably get the new camera (unless it's a dog of course! ) and keep my K10D as a second body.

You dont mean "one of the new cameras" .... ?
I dont see myself updating my k10d to a k20d, but if they came up with a k1d as well then I doubt I would be able to resist. I had/have the DS and didnt feel like upgrading when the k100d came out. but the k10d was a class above and that justified the upgrade. I think the new body will have to be a performance and price class above the k10d for me to justify having to upgrade.