[séamuis]

And what can be trusted in terms of market value in your opinion?

things are technically only worth what the demand on these things are. do either ebay or this marketplace sellers do any research on current demand for a lens? doubtful. the marketplace is leaps and bounds above ebay or just about anywhere else for Pentax equipment, but I still don't think it should be considered a good indicator. and of course ebay is just a joke. I dont know what place could qualify, I dont think I have ever purchased anything at what one could cionsider 'market value'.

[awo425]

things are technically only worth what the demand on these things are. do either ebay or this marketplace sellers do any research on current demand for a lens? doubtful. the marketplace is leaps and bounds above ebay or just about anywhere else for Pentax equipment, but I still don't think it should be considered a good indicator. and of course ebay is just a joke. I dont know what place could qualify, I dont think I have ever purchased anything at what one could cionsider 'market value'.

I carefully read your answer, but still didn't get any meaning out of it, except that " ebay is just a joke" and that you "never ever purchased anything at what one could cionsider 'market value'"

I probably too dumb to get it. Sorry for wasting your time.

[séamuis]

I carefully read your answer, but still didn't get any meaning out of it, except that " ebay is just a joke" and that you "never ever purchased anything at what one could cionsider 'market value'"

I probably too dumb to get it. Sorry for wasting your time.

was that sarcasm? goods are only worth what the demand on them is (not counting new products as their are all sorts of pricing reasons) unless the seller does research on the current demand and then prices the lens or whatever he/she is selling accordingly you cannot guarantee that you are getting it at market value, and its highly doubtful that most people do this. I regard the marketplace here higher because it is a small market where its easier to research the demand.

[Ratmagiclady]

"It's not really the white camera I'm bitching about, it's the timing of the white camera and how they made such a 'big deal' out of the white camera, like it was going to be some marvelous technical innovation. While Rome burns..."

----it's actually not a big deal to make a different color plastic on an amateur model.

"If you read on, you will see my thoughts on the Pentax 67, one of the greatest cameras of all times. And yes, it recoiled like an SOB, which is why they had to put a mirror lock on it, or you had to use the shuttered lenses."

----Which, as I recall, didn't come out for a number of years. I shot *weddings* with the old version. Did you scream all that while?


"Thank you, and they'll soon be lagging behind Panasonic and Olympus unless they do more than change the colour of the plastic on the outside of their cameras."

---I'd say, not likely. Olympus gambled on that tiny sensor and it's been dogging them ever since. They came out with Micro- Four Thirds to try and play to the strengths of that blunder, and then Pentax went and made a DSLR with an optical finder of comparable size, ...despite the Lumix colours. Don't get me wrong, I like Lumix, and their designs, they just aren't making cameras or lenses for me, and why the *heck* am I going to buy a G1 only to stick an adapter or two on so I can fit up a Zuiko that's three times the price and at least a half-stop slower than something K-mount in that size?



"A lot of you are completely misreading what I am trying to say. There's nothing 'wrong' with the white camera, they could easily make them green or with an American Flag on it, I don't care, what I really care about is the company, Pentax, is under attack FROM ALL SIDES and from a BUNCH of new players, BIG new players, and they make a big deal out of a plastic colour change. Nice..."

---Actually, people on the *Net* made a big deal of the color change. I've just *come* to a company that seemed to decide it was a great idea to make nothing but ersatz chrome for ten or fifteen years. If colors scare you, *wrong fricking brand, dude.*



"Exactly. They've got to get serious NOW or they're in big trouble. Look what Leica, a company teetering on the brink, came out with; a Medium format DSLR and 9 lenses! Now they're serious. And the effects of this will trickle down as sales to their other stuff. "

Leica's market will basically hand them a few hundred million just to have something to put something in a box. They'll scream bloody murder about it later, but they'll pay.



"Yup; minor upgrades. I sure hope they're working on something BIG, cause they REALLY need it now. Before they were just doing battle with Canon and Nikon; now they've got Sony and Panasonic to worry about as well. They are going to be crushed if they don't do something soon, I tell ya. I'm here cause I love the lenses, but this company is in some serious trouble with this AND the world economy tanking."


This is producing photographic instruments, not a battle.

Outside of 'beta culture,' what ends up *big* is something that *does it right* and *keeps doing it right.*


There's always the latest whizbang. Few cameras like that last.




"Thank you. Pentax is not even in the same LEAGUE - they are so far behind it is truly mind boggling."

League of what, hiring Internet trolls?


"I personally can't believe they let it get this bad. Go try a big Canon or Nikon OR NOW A SONY (!!!!) and you'll see what focussing should be like. Take it to the darkest part of the store, swing it around madly with the shutter button depressed. YOU, the Pentax owner, will soon be the one who's 'depressed'."

If you don't like the AF system, buy something else, or better yet, grow a *skill.* Darn thing's just a crutch, anyway, and pardon me for aging.






"In low light, I'm lucky if I get two shots off before the hunting and pecking occur."

Once, in the mists of time, focus rings woulnd't even turn for you at *all* Somehow we managed.


"And I usually borrow a friends K20D (nice camera, but...) because the *ist D is SO freaking bad, but it hunts and pecks like crazy as well."

If you're comparing AF on 'high-end Canons' to an *ist, and whining about the results, you deserve all the quality you get.

" I'm a musician,"

I'm not. Not a good one, anyway. But when I can't play, I don't complain about some inadequate auto-tuner.

"and I shoot a lot of live bands in very low light, often side by side with other pro Canon and Nikon users. I miss A LOT of shots - they don't. BRRRRAATTTTTTT! It's just humiliating; it really is."

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Last big concert I shot was with an AE-1P and a 2fps winder. I got the shots.

'BRRRRATTTT' is apparently the issue, with you.



" Real-world low-light AF performance of Pentax cameras right up to and including the K20D is SERIOUSLY bad - not even close. I hear them beside me firing away while mine is still going back and forth - vrrrrnt - vrrrnt - I usually switch to manual focus cause I just can't stand it anymore. And you can't rely on the auto-focus assist light on a big flash gun to help in a lot of sitations, as you're not allowed to use flash AT ALL in a lot of venues."


Was there something about 'learn to focus' that was difficult for you?


I admit I'd rather they didn't choose to blip the flash for low light AF assist, but I can have a headlight from a Dodge Dart on a Nikon and it won't help me cause I can't afford the lenses.



"They really do have to show they're serious and they're in this for keeps now - all the other companies have. And if you think battling Canon was tough, that will be looked back on fondly as 'the good old days'...Sony and Panasonic will CRUSH them...come on now. They're in deep doo-doo now, WAY more than they've ever been. And they're just rolling over and playing dead. That is why the White ******* camera pisses me off so much. DO YOU GUYS GET IT YET?"

No.

When Canon's EOS system first came out, they marketed a lot of funny-colored Sure Shot things in any garish color you wanted-but-trendy ones.

Nuffin to do with it.


Nuffin.



"I am trying to goad this totally somnabulent company into some action NOW before it's too late. AND SO SHOULD YOU! We know they listen to these forums, and you guys are applauding their piddly-asses little gestures as if they were a good thing - IT'S NOT. "

Actually, I entirely disagree. The major brands have been racing each other and being reactive, and the only way they can justify the expensive models is to hold back features we need from the affordable ones, while filling the 'serious' ones with crap I don't have the computer power or need for. I don't need a thousand dollar lame-arse video camera, I need a DSLR that'll do something like film *properly.*


"This company SERIOUSLY needs to get a grip NOW and get some pro stuff out there to show they are truly in this game, or they are about to get ANNIHILATED."

Actually, I think, if they have a grip, they will know their market, make serious things, and anyone who can't get a grip about it is trolling.



" The effects trickle down, even if they GIVE the stuff away to some pros, just to get the name out there and show their technical merit and capabilities. That's how it's done in this game, sorry, and a little also ran company like Pentax is now isn't going to change it. They need to muster up some gonads and throw a punch before it's too late."


Actually, you'd be surprised how much not thinking with your gonads can do in the real world.

Promotion could be worked on, but they aren't aiming at the followers, these days. As a company, it'd be *asinine* to try and out-spec the five thousand dollar cameras K20s are always being compared to.


If they want to make a prestige model, like everyone else, when they do that, it gets subsidized by amateur level sales and amortized about trickle down inovations. Rarely do the top level cameras for the chosen few *actually hit the market and start turning a profit.*

"Don't applaud they're BS. Pentax really needs to get a grip this time, or there truly won't be a Pentax really soon. I know people have been saying this for a long time, but times have truly changed, and there's some big guns in this now that are TOTALLY serious."

People who have big guns tend to *think* with them. Doesn't mean they're shooting straight.


" The economy is tanking, massive bucks are pouring into digital photography, and Pentax makes a big announcement about a white plastic camera that is NO DIFFERENT from their black plastic camera. As I said, fiddling while Rome burns."


It's an amateur line of cameras, not the Roman Empire.

"Just my $.02, but don't say I didn't warn you. It's a whole new ballgame now..."


From what?

"But anyway, Merry Christmas everyone, or whatever you and your loved ones celebrate this season. All the best for 2009.

Cheers,
Cameron
Pentaxian"


I can't help but be reminded of those of a certain religious persuasion who scream everyone's going to die and go to Hell, while of course, taking great offense Jesus isn't obligatorily-mentioned by everyone at Wal-mart.

Have a happy holiday, Cambs. In whatever world you live.

[Kunzite]

Comments with red.

It's not really the white camera I'm bitching about, it's the timing of the white camera and how they made such a 'big deal' out of the white camera, like it was going to be some marvelous technical innovation. While Rome burns...
Who makes a big deal about it? You, maybe?
And people like you will always complain, at every new camera launch (and I'm talking about real announcements, not another color of a new entry level), that Pentax didn't put x FPS, is not like this and that, and how Pentax is doomed because this. Ridiculous!

Thank you, and they'll soon be lagging behind Panasonic and Olympus unless they do more than change the colour of the plastic on the outside of their cameras.
The K20D crushes those Olympus and Panasonic cameras by a mile at image quality. Yes, at low ISO cameras like the E3 or G1 are very good (still not as detailed as a K20D with a good lens I'd say), but today people seems to shoot only at ISO1600 and higher
Look at Imaging Resource samples if you don't believe me
Yup; minor upgrades. I sure hope they're working on something BIG, cause they REALLY need it now. Before they were just doing battle with Canon and Nikon; now they've got Sony and Panasonic to worry about as well. They are going to be crushed if they don't do something soon, I tell ya. I'm here cause I love the lenses, but this company is in some serious trouble with this AND the world economy tanking.
"do something soon"... like lose a lot of money on products only about 15 people would buy? (your idea, not mine!)
I am trying to goad this totally somnabulent company into some action NOW before it's too late. AND SO SHOULD YOU! We know they listen to these forums, and you guys are applauding their piddly-asses little gestures as if they were a good thing - IT'S NOT. This company SERIOUSLY needs to get a grip NOW and get some pro stuff out there to show they are truly in this game, or they are about to get ANNIHILATED. The effects trickle down, even if they GIVE the stuff away to some pros, just to get the name out there and show their technical merit and capabilities. That's how it's done in this game, sorry, and a little also ran company like Pentax is now isn't going to change it. They need to muster up some gonads and throw a punch before it's too late.
Oh, well, of course I want Pentax to move faster. And I can tell them they have my support, by asking about products they can mass market with a profit, products I would buy.
Let's be realistic: asking for a lineup comparable to Canon over night is simply trolling.
Asking for a faster AF, for a generally faster and more responsive camera, for new lenses (skipping 'exotic' ones like a 1200mm f/1.4) that would cover gaps in the current lineup - while understanding no one can make miracles - is another thing.
And if that would be a "Please, Pentax" thread, I'd add few things I'd like to have in my next camera:
- a very quiet shutter release, even if this means no xxFPS
- a big&nice viewfinder, with good eyepoint
- better image quality. Not that my pictures need it
Don't applaud they're BS. Pentax really needs to get a grip this time, or there truly won't be a Pentax really soon.
I have absolutely no fear Pentax would disappear. However, I'm asking myself - aren't you just a tiny bit curious how Hoya's strategy will play?
Because, you know, I'm quite sure they'll have something next year that I'll really, really want, much more so than a D3whatever monster which is simply too good, too fast, too pricey and too heavy to lift
Just my $.02, but don't say I didn't warn you. It's a whole new ballgame now...
Ballgame? Now I have an idea! Pentax, please make the next camera round! (Death Star, anyone?)
But anyway, Merry Christmas everyone, or whatever you and your loved ones celebrate this season. All the best for 2009.
And Merry Christmas to you
Cheers,
Cameron
Pentaxian

[jeffkrol]

Translation result for http://www.impresswatch.com.cn/digi/347/8653347.shtml
Main characteristic

　　1. Attracts the people vision the sparkle white fuselage and the lens

　　This set of alone individuality coverall intension including receives the high praise PENTAX the K-m numerical code single lens reflection camera as well as the removable zoom lens, and uses the perfect arrangement the white outer covering material quality. Not only has provided another kind of color choice, meanwhile brings the pleasure which Shan Fan photographs, this time white coverall will certainly to attract the global numerous photography amateur's attention.

　　2. The compact dexterous fuselage brings a better portability and the mobility

　　Although the built-in great size's photosensitive part (23.5mm x 15.7mm), PENTAX the K-m white color print maintained as before exquisite and the facile fuselage, provides the splendid portability and the mobility. Benefits in the high strength stainless steel foundation, against shakes the organization and the peripheral electric circuit's miniaturization, the most new high density seal technology's use, had guaranteed the massive spare part accurately effectively localization and the layout, as well as the redesign battery compartment, causes the so compact fuselage possibly to design finally into. Moreover, camera's handle also undergoes the redesign, can guarantee that reliable and the comfortable fuselage grasps holds the feeling.

[247nino]

Interesting solution!

Does it function like a torch light while you used it with K10D? I mean always on?

yup, unless I turn it off, I like it on, in the nightclubs, drunks fools get out of my way when they see my bright light and make room for the hotties to pose for me



Am I the only one who uses an "Assist light"

seriously sounds like all everyone else cares about is speed, so get something faster... or help yourself, because when you bought the pentax, there was nothing wrong with it, but now that other brands are releasing faster this and thats, all of a sudden theres something wrong with your gear?

K1000, AE-1/A-1, FM - wouldnt you go with the first choice? the camera is only as fast as you and how you use it.


"Thank you, and they'll soon be lagging behind Panasonic and Olympus unless they do more than change the colour of the plastic on the outside of their cameras.
The K20D crushes those Olympus and Panasonic cameras by a mile at image quality. Yes, at low ISO cameras like the E3 or G1 are very good (still not as detailed as a K20D with a good lens I'd say), but today people seems to shoot only at ISO1600 and higher "
I SAY: I think the D3 is the only camera out right now that beats the K20D, sure the D300/700 is alright and the 50D is ok, but our $750 K20D body smashes on those other's even that half assed full frame nikon. even if they have the fast features, will you use them? So maybe the 5Dmk2 is better... well not with those problems with the sensor think about it, there isnt anything wrong with our system its just not time for us to have xxFPS, supermablob AF, or 25600 ISO. Its probably because most of us do well at 100-800 and we have some damn awesome glass...

---

Last edited by 247nino; 12-24-2008 at 05:58 AM.

[vinzer]

It's not really the white camera I'm bitching about, it's the timing of the white camera and how they made such a 'big deal' out of the white camera, like it was going to be some marvelous technical innovation. While Rome burns...



If you read on, you will see my thoughts on the Pentax 67, one of the greatest cameras of all times. And yes, it recoiled like an SOB, which is why they had to put a mirror lock on it, or you had to use the shuttered lenses.

And why did Sam Haskins switch again....? Wonder if he's upgrading to the white camera...





Thank you, and they'll soon be lagging behind Panasonic and Olympus unless they do more than change the colour of the plastic on the outside of their cameras.

A lot of you are completely misreading what I am trying to say. There's nothing 'wrong' with the white camera, they could easily make them green or with an American Flag on it, I don't care, what I really care about is the company, Pentax, is under attack FROM ALL SIDES and from a BUNCH of new players, BIG new players, and they make a big deal out of a plastic colour change. Nice...



Exactly. They've got to get serious NOW or they're in big trouble. Look what Leica, a company teetering on the brink, came out with; a Medium format DSLR and 9 lenses! Now they're serious. And the effects of this will trickle down as sales to their other stuff.



Yup; minor upgrades. I sure hope they're working on something BIG, cause they REALLY need it now. Before they were just doing battle with Canon and Nikon; now they've got Sony and Panasonic to worry about as well. They are going to be crushed if they don't do something soon, I tell ya. I'm here cause I love the lenses, but this company is in some serious trouble with this AND the world economy tanking.



Thank you. Pentax is not even in the same LEAGUE - they are so far behind it is truly mind boggling. I personally can't believe they let it get this bad. Go try a big Canon or Nikon OR NOW A SONY (!!!!) and you'll see what focussing should be like. Take it to the darkest part of the store, swing it around madly with the shutter button depressed. YOU, the Pentax owner, will soon be the one who's 'depressed'.

In low light, I'm lucky if I get two shots off before the hunting and pecking occur. And I usually borrow a friends K20D (nice camera, but...) because the *ist D is SO freaking bad, but it hunts and pecks like crazy as well. I'm a musician, and I shoot a lot of live bands in very low light, often side by side with other pro Canon and Nikon users. I miss A LOT of shots - they don't. BRRRRAATTTTTTT! It's just humiliating; it really is. Real-world low-light AF performance of Pentax cameras right up to and including the K20D is SERIOUSLY bad - not even close. I hear them beside me firing away while mine is still going back and forth - vrrrrnt - vrrrnt - I usually switch to manual focus cause I just can't stand it anymore. And you can't rely on the auto-focus assist light on a big flash gun to help in a lot of sitations, as you're not allowed to use flash AT ALL in a lot of venues.



They really do have to show they're serious and they're in this for keeps now - all the other companies have. And if you think battling Canon was tough, that will be looked back on fondly as 'the good old days'...Sony and Panasonic will CRUSH them...come on now. They're in deep doo-doo now, WAY more than they've ever been. And they're just rolling over and playing dead. That is why the White ******* camera pisses me off so much. DO YOU GUYS GET IT YET?



I am trying to goad this totally somnabulent company into some action NOW before it's too late. AND SO SHOULD YOU! We know they listen to these forums, and you guys are applauding their piddly-asses little gestures as if they were a good thing - IT'S NOT. This company SERIOUSLY needs to get a grip NOW and get some pro stuff out there to show they are truly in this game, or they are about to get ANNIHILATED. The effects trickle down, even if they GIVE the stuff away to some pros, just to get the name out there and show their technical merit and capabilities. That's how it's done in this game, sorry, and a little also ran company like Pentax is now isn't going to change it. They need to muster up some gonads and throw a punch before it's too late.

Don't applaud they're BS. Pentax really needs to get a grip this time, or there truly won't be a Pentax really soon. I know people have been saying this for a long time, but times have truly changed, and there's some big guns in this now that are TOTALLY serious. The economy is tanking, massive bucks are pouring into digital photography, and Pentax makes a big announcement about a white plastic camera that is NO DIFFERENT from their black plastic camera. As I said, fiddling while Rome burns.

Just my $.02, but don't say I didn't warn you. It's a whole new ballgame now...

But anyway, Merry Christmas everyone, or whatever you and your loved ones celebrate this season. All the best for 2009.

Cheers,
Cameron
Pentaxian

Why stick with a dying brand, in your point of view? Best to move on to a brand that better suits your needs and isn't bleeding to death. It's interesting how you mention that there are "big guns now that are TOTALLY serious". Any camera manufacturer is totally serious. What, you think they're making cameras on a whim, to tickle their fancy? No, they don't. They all have their own plans. You don't like it? Again, easy to move on to another brand. Vote with your wallet, show Pentax that you'd rather have had a serious camera by buying a D3/1Ds/E-3/A900. That'll reflect on their bottom line, and it shows them what they should be doing better than posting on a forum Hoya may not be following at all.

Merry Christmas, and I hope the time off this season will clear your mind with what you want to do with your photographic purchases from here on out.

[kenyee]

247nino:

Is there any way to turn that Sima light off during a shot? Seems like it'd affect exposure?

[er1kksen]

I SAY: I think the D3 is the only camera out right now that beats the K20D, sure the D300/700 is alright and the 50D is ok, but our $750 K20D body smashes on those other's even that half assed full frame nikon. even if they have the fast features, will you use them? So maybe the 5Dmk2 is better... well not with those problems with the sensor think about it, there isnt anything wrong with our system its just not time for us to have xxFPS, supermablob AF, or 25600 ISO. Its probably because most of us do well at 100-800 and we have some damn awesome glass...

I'm curious as to why you say only the D3 and lump the the D700 in with the D300? The D700's image quality is identical to the D3's, so if the D3 is better then the D700 must be as well. I'd hesitate to make a bigger deal out of the 5D mk ii's sensor "problems" than really exist as well... the black dots do little to detract from otherwise great image quality in most situations. I'd say it's perfectly reasonable to say that the Nikon, Canon, and Sony full frame cameras have the K20D beat for image quality (and many other aspects of performance), and they should, given how much they cost. The amazing thing about the K20D is how incredibly close you can get to that IQ with perfectly adequate body performance for under $1000.

I mean, yeah, the K20D is great. I'm buying one. But let's be rational.

[cyclingshooter]

I have the K20 and love the flexibility of the system. I do wish for higher frame p/s and faster AF with tracking, but as I can't afford a D3 or D700, I dont complain. I have an excellent system for what I paid.

Society is pushing us to always want more_and_bigger_and_better and we tend to forget about what we actually need. I am extremely guilty of this myself, but when the finances begin to crunch and material wants/needs are re-examined, wiser thinking begins to prevail--at least in my case!

[Ratmagiclady]

yup, unless I turn it off, I like it on, in the nightclubs, drunks fools get out of my way when they see my bright light and make room for the hotties to pose for me



Am I the only one who uses an "Assist light"

Oh, that's *sweet.* What a great idea. I'm stealing it. (that idea, not the device )

Can you turn that sort of thing down by much? I don't see much detail there.

[Cambo]

I've always been on the 'Nahh, everythings fine' side of things whenever a thread came up on the demise of Pentax. And they have come up frequently.

This time it is different. Really different.

Companies as large as GM and Chrysler teetering on the brink; the world's economy in total chaos. These are very different times, indeed. Which is why I have sounded an extreme alarm bell for Pentax. I really feel they are in jeopardy this time, and I really feel the time has come for them to show their hand, if they've got one. There will be a lot of calamities in this global meltdown, I just hope Pentax has some tricks up it's sleeve to ensure it isn't one.

I'm really not too optimistic about this company. It might just become another Vivitar or Bell & Howell or Polaroid - a cheap, off-brand, rebadged subsidiary, living off remnants of former glory. I certainly hope not. They have to act now and position themselves to survive the impending meltdown; we've only just seen the start of it, I'm afraid.

Sincerely,
Cameron

[Samsungian]

I own both Pentax k20D & Canon 5D. Feature wise I like the K20D alot. 5d is 3 years older tech. Even by todays standards K20D is more feature rich at or above its price thesedays. well except for E3 Olympus. Ever read those specs? And thesedays its $1249 at B&H or as i like to see it $50 less than K20D launched at earlier this year.

But when it comes to full frame 5D betters pentax since pentax isn't competeing in this market. If they did, and with an array of new full frame glass:

(competetively priced at issue),

Pentax would do well. But they are carving out a niche, as Olympus has with smaller format sensors. I havn't bought a new pentax lens in 6 years but I sure like my old manual focus K Mount glass on K20D.

I'm curious as to why you say only the D3 and lump the the D700 in with the D300? The D700's image quality is identical to the D3's, so if the D3 is better then the D700 must be as well. I'd hesitate to make a bigger deal out of the 5D mk ii's sensor "problems" than really exist as well... the black dots do little to detract from otherwise great image quality in most situations. I'd say it's perfectly reasonable to say that the Nikon, Canon, and Sony full frame cameras have the K20D beat for image quality (and many other aspects of performance), and they should, given how much they cost. The amazing thing about the K20D is how incredibly close you can get to that IQ with perfectly adequate body performance for under $1000.

I mean, yeah, the K20D is great. I'm buying one. But let's be rational.

[Kunzite]

Sorry, Cameron, but every time Pentax is dying things are different. Really different
Sell everything to us, cheaply, go to Canon and be happy. I'm tired of this, I don't need another "the sky is falling! I'm telling you, the sky is really falling!".
Besides, I think 2009 will be an interesting year for pentaxians. No, not a system 100% equivalent to Canon as you'd like (the only way to survival, yeah, right!), but a clear step-up from the current situation.

Samsungian, the APS-C market is not the niche, full frame is.