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03-01-2011, 09:00 AM   #211
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote

However, I won't ask Pentax about it before 1.03 is out. A Hamburg technician returning from Tokyo told a German forum member that Japan is rather confident they found a way to fix it. Let's see.
How does this align with the German forum member who apparently said over a month ago that Pentax Germany had a FW fix top be released in 2 weeks ( 2 weeks overdue ).

If Pentax Japan has found a way to fix it now then it would obviously mean the previous rumour was false.

03-01-2011, 09:25 AM   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
How does this align with the German forum member who apparently said over a month ago that Pentax Germany had a FW fix top be released in 2 weeks ( 2 weeks overdue ).

If Pentax Japan has found a way to fix it now then it would obviously mean the previous rumour was false.
Given the amount of moaning that this "issue" has caused, were I Pentax I would be testing any firmware revision to the Nth degree before releasing it into the wild to make sure that fixing one thing hasn't broken anything else and that the fix has achieved the perfection that people who have bought a $1500.00 camera think they have a right to..
Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but a firmware revision designed to fix the front focus error will be tested rigorously with the intent of breaking it by a significant % of users, all of whom will gleefully report to various internet forums about how Pentax is obviously incompetent and how the loyal supporters of Pentax have a right to expect better out of a $1500.00 camera if they manage to find a way to make the AF fail.
This forum alone would probably be good for 50 threads and several thousand posts, all repeating exactly the same thing that has been repeated hundreds of times already.
I would almost bet money that if a firmware revision doesn't result in absolute perfection in any "test" designed to make the AF fail, the world will never hear the end of people moaning about their camera.
It's no longer good enough for them to come up with reasonable focus accuracy, the user base has spoken, and they will tolerate nothing less than absolute perfection.
This may take Pentax a bit longer to achieve than good enough under real world conditions would have taken.
03-01-2011, 10:42 AM   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Given the amount of moaning that this "issue" has caused, were I Pentax I would be testing any firmware revision to the Nth degree before releasing it into the wild to make sure that fixing one thing hasn't broken anything else and that the fix has achieved the perfection that people who have bought a $1500.00 camera think they have a right to..
Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but a firmware revision designed to fix the front focus error will be tested rigorously with the intent of breaking it by a significant % of users, all of whom will gleefully report to various internet forums about how Pentax is obviously incompetent and how the loyal supporters of Pentax have a right to expect better out of a $1500.00 camera if they manage to find a way to make the AF fail.
This forum alone would probably be good for 50 threads and several thousand posts, all repeating exactly the same thing that has been repeated hundreds of times already.
I would almost bet money that if a firmware revision doesn't result in absolute perfection in any "test" designed to make the AF fail, the world will never hear the end of people moaning about their camera.
It's no longer good enough for them to come up with reasonable focus accuracy, the user base has spoken, and they will tolerate nothing less than absolute perfection.
This may take Pentax a bit longer to achieve than good enough under real world conditions would have taken.
I'd be perfectly happy with the same focus accuracy I have with my old K100D Super. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation, do you?
03-01-2011, 10:58 AM   #214
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QuoteOriginally posted by areidjr Quote
I'd be perfectly happy with the same focus accuracy I have with my old K100D Super. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation, do you?
I think it's gone way beyond that in Forumville.
This is the only forum I read with regularity, and it has been akin to a pack of rabid dogs killing a small animal for the past several weeks.

As I've had AF fails on every Pentax DSLR camera I've ever owned, I can't really take umbrage with the K5 over any other camera. When the chips are down, I don't trust autofocus simply because when it matters, it always seems to fail me.

03-01-2011, 11:24 AM   #215
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Question for Falk - am I reading this chart correctly?


I'm interpreting the chart above as saying there are no focus shift until EV 2 and below, and even then it's not consistent (sometimes there is a shift, sometimes there isn't), and then below EV -1 there is more or less a consistent shift?
03-01-2011, 11:28 AM   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by areidjr Quote
I'd be perfectly happy with the same focus accuracy I have with my old K100D Super. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation, do you?
Maybe you are over estimating the auto focus capabilities of the K100 super. I never owned one, but I did own a K10 and also a K100 and they were terrible focusers in low light, even though if there occasionally was a point with enough contrast they could lock focus. I certainly would like useful autofocus in dim light...
03-01-2011, 11:32 AM   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote

As I've had AF fails on every Pentax DSLR camera I've ever owned, I can't really take umbrage with the K5 over any other camera. When the chips are down, I don't trust autofocus simply because when it matters, it always seems to fail me.
When standards start out that low, Pentax has no way to go but up!

.
03-01-2011, 12:07 PM   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Maybe you are over estimating the auto focus capabilities of the K100 super. I never owned one, but I did own a K10 and also a K100 and they were terrible focusers in low light, even though if there occasionally was a point with enough contrast they could lock focus. I certainly would like useful autofocus in dim light...
Nope, not overestimating it at all, as far as accuracy is concerned. When it locks, it has achieved proper focus. Sure, it's slow and sometimes doesn't lock in low light, but the accuracy is more than acceptable.

I posted comparisons in other threads so I won't repeat it here.

03-01-2011, 01:43 PM   #219
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I think it's gone way beyond that in Forumville.
This is the only forum I read with regularity, and it has been akin to a pack of rabid dogs killing a small animal for the past several weeks.
Hyperbole.

And nonsense!

Many of us, myself included, have had K10Ds, K20Ds, etc, etc which focussed fine at the light levels the K-5 is failing miserably at.

I am happy with the accuracy of both my K10D and K20D's AF. They take time to achieve that focus, but when they do it's accurate. I just want my K-5 to achieve the same accuracy


Oh and btw the reason some of us with the K-5 FF problem are getting angry is because we've been subjected to patronisation by people trying to either minimise the problem, claim the problem doesn't exist, divert and deflect about other camera brands having problems, claim the problem exists in all cameras, and most offensive of all claiming it's user error ( even by some who can't even take one picture in focus themselves at any light levels ), etc, etc

I just come to these threads to a] see if there's any news or b] engage in some banter with peeps having the same problems. I don't come here to be patronised.
03-01-2011, 01:54 PM   #220
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I've been trying to stay away from them so as to not risk getting rabies.
03-01-2011, 02:43 PM   #221
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It would be a shame if this thread became another dumping ground for those who complain of whining and those who feel compelled to justify themselves to the complainer. Let's just stick to the technical aspects of the low light FF study.
03-01-2011, 02:48 PM   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Given the amount of moaning that this "issue" has caused, ...
Gratuitous moaning can be irritating but excessive moaning about the moaners gets tiring as well.
Why don't you let the "moaners" do their thing in peace?

Note that this thread is about an unequivocally existing camera fault. It is not a case of unrealistic user expectations but a product not performing to the manufacturer's specification. The K-5 is not sold for the price of a toy so it better should perform according to the specification set by the manufacturer. This is not "asking for perfection".

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but a firmware revision designed to fix the front focus error will be tested rigorously with the intent of breaking it by a significant % of users, all of whom will gleefully report to various internet forums about how Pentax is obviously incompetent...
I think you are wrong in assuming that the intent of subsequent user testing will be to find a problem. If the firmware fix let's people take the shots they want to do then the issue will have been settled. I understand the FF issue cropped up because users weren't happy with photos they were trying to take in normal scenarios. Remember the K-7 shutter blur? This wasn't discovered by testers either. It was only investigated after repeated user complaints about normal scenario shots going wrong.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
This forum alone would probably be good for 50 threads and several thousand posts, all repeating exactly the same thing that has been repeated hundreds of times already.
I don't think you'll be able to observe that even now, but if you do then you are reading way too many threads and posts. If you do then I could understand why you are getting tired about the so-called "moaners" but I feel it is not the fault of the posters (few trolls excluded, of course ).

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
This may take Pentax a bit longer to achieve than good enough under real world conditions would have taken.
You are suggesting that Pentax is listening/responding to users. Past history shows next to no evidence for that. Or where is the firmware update that fixes the "Auto ISO" bug for my K100D?
03-01-2011, 03:28 PM   #223
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Because the phase sensor cannot use it, i've the idea that another sensor (+sensor or whatever) is at play. And because this sensor may actually be outside the AF module ( unlikely but possible), it may be tested differently too.
Remember your annotated cutaway of the prism housing? You speculated that "D" could be the colour temperature sensor. Seems more likely to me than ever now.
03-01-2011, 03:29 PM   #224
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Given the amount of moaning that this "issue" has caused, were I Pentax I would be testing any firmware revision to the Nth degree before releasing it into the wild to make sure that fixing one thing hasn't broken anything else and that the fix has achieved the perfection that people who have bought a $1500.00 camera think they have a right to..
Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but a firmware revision designed to fix the front focus error will be tested rigorously with the intent of breaking it by a significant % of users, all of whom will gleefully report to various internet forums about how Pentax is obviously incompetent and how the loyal supporters of Pentax have a right to expect better out of a $1500.00 camera if they manage to find a way to make the AF fail.
This forum alone would probably be good for 50 threads and several thousand posts, all repeating exactly the same thing that has been repeated hundreds of times already.
I would almost bet money that if a firmware revision doesn't result in absolute perfection in any "test" designed to make the AF fail, the world will never hear the end of people moaning about their camera.
It's no longer good enough for them to come up with reasonable focus accuracy, the user base has spoken, and they will tolerate nothing less than absolute perfection.
This may take Pentax a bit longer to achieve than good enough under real world conditions would have taken.

AMEN!
03-01-2011, 03:41 PM   #225
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@ClassA wrote: "You are suggesting that Pentax is listening/responding to users. Past history shows next to no evidence for that. "

Oh, really. Then how do you account for the numerous features that were included in the K-5 which seem to be a direct response to people moaning about what was lacking in the K-7? Seems to me there is a direct conduit from this forum to Pentax/Hoya.
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