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11-02-2007, 06:01 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Viewfinder or Top LCD ?

IMO for most people in low-end (K100D or hypothetical K1000D) the top LCD is not *that* mandatory. Most people won't ever look at it. The will ook through the voewfinder or the LCD back screen and nothing else.

On a higher end body, it is clear that I would not accept a body without top LCD.
Corrected...sorry!

11-02-2007, 06:09 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Corrected...sorry!
Hehe...

Let's say for being forgiven you have to spill the beans on one unknown up to now specifications on the upcoming bodies
11-02-2007, 06:30 AM   #78
and
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I like the top lcd too, especially on a tripod I do use it, it would be annoying to have to always look into the viewfinder to know what its set at.

But even better would be to keep the top lcd and also add a similar thin lcd under the main lcd on the back like you see on some pro cams. The main lcd on the back will of course now be 3 or 3.5 inches. How will they fit that on the back? integrate the damn grip! why have interated girp on a k10d level camera? fine, then give me an above k10d level camera then. oh and add a dedicated iso dial please

Again, why is sony taking so long to release a higher end camera... Its been a while since they showed 2 new cameras under glass. And they are keeping so many FF lenses.

Did anyone get a definite on the new nikon sensors? the d3 sensor designed by nikon and made by someone else. What about the d300 sensor, is it sony or not...
11-02-2007, 06:39 AM   #79
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OK...Deal

QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Hehe...

Let's say for being forgiven you have to spill the beans on one unknown up to now specifications on the upcoming bodies
Here is one very BIG up and coming BODY.....

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-releases/14235-not-news-but-very-important.html

Enjoy

11-02-2007, 06:54 AM   #80
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Spin doctors invited

OK, since this is the official rumor thread I figured I'd post the "latest" unverified, since I can't read japanese:
News from Japan
Rough translation

Hoya wants to gradually minimize Pentax's compact digital camera business in 2-3 years. Hoya concluded that it would be difficult to compete in budget digital camera market. Hoya investigates the profitability of high-end digital cameras, but they will mainly focus on DSLR for now. The decision is based on their forecast that the P&S digital camera market will peak out within 2-3 years. Hoya seeks a niche market with high margin instead. Though Pentax K10d and K100d are going off well, Hoya's standpoint is that it will be hard to provide complete line-up of SLR from entry-level to flagship model as Canon, Nikon and Sony do, considering Pentax's brand and selling power.
Copyright 2007 THE NIKKAN KOGYO SHIMBUN (daily industry newspaper)



For all you HOYA faithful, it doesn't seem like Hoya has much faith in Pentax cameras.....afterall HOW do you create brand and selling power without a product line? One trick ponies won't cut it... Seems they are still in the self-fullfilling prophecy mode...
And my take, HOYA doesn't want to sell cameras, never wanted to sell cameras and will eventually NOT sell cameras, period..... sorry. Hopefully samsung will pick up the pieces and Hoytax may even make the lenses/ modules for their COMPLETE line.
All speculation and really worthless but food for thought.
To Ben and the rest... Pentax better pull a rabbit out of their hat in January.....and start hitting 20% profit margins...
The deck is stacked against them.

Last edited by jeffkrol; 11-02-2007 at 07:03 AM.
11-02-2007, 07:15 AM   #81
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@Benjikan:

Yes I thought that Pro body but then there is not even a mention of how many fps the one can do so I neglected the whole thing

@Jeffkrol:

Yeah that's confirm more or less my informations but.. there is no question (in my infos of course) of boldly quitting P&S cams. Simply they will scrap Optio E-serie for example and keep the ones which have particuliar features (like Optio W-serie I suppose). They might also go more in the Optio 750Z-like P&S or Ricoh G-serie. Maybe Minolta DimageA-serie or Canon G-serie.

I would probably buy a Pentax Ricoh G-like if they come with one usable with their usual flashes and allow for RAW mode. Take a GR with a good sensor, K10D engine and 360FGZ flash
11-02-2007, 07:17 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
You suck
11-02-2007, 07:20 AM   #83
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Personally, I think it is probably a good thing to drop the P&S line. Think about the R&D dollars needed to churn out 10 to 15 new camera bodies a year. And that market is like the cell phone market in that in 3 months the camera is out dated based on the competition.

While I think it creates some market buzz, I bet it is hard to recoup the R&D dollars on the sale of P&S cameras.

I think a hard hitting DSLR product line from Pentax, with all the R&D bells and whistles turning for 2008 will bring about a whole new light for Pentax. If January truly brings about 2 new bodies, including 1 that may be Pro Class, as well as some of the DA* long glass, Pentax will be positioned to have a great 2008.

If the R&D and momentum can stay tightly focused on DSLR and Lenses for the year of 2008, then 2009 could be the year they catch up to the big 2.

But that is just my thinking at the moment. After reading more internet stuff, my opinions will probably change again by tomorrow.

11-02-2007, 07:38 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
.....afterall HOW do you create brand and selling power without a product line? One trick ponies won't cut it...
Let's not forget that the biggest selling SLR of all time isn't a Canon or Nikon...it's a Pentax. One of the cheapest Pentax's ever, btw. The question isn't whether or not Pentax can compete with the Big 2 without a full line of cameras. They can. That's how they made their name. The real question is, "Can they do it again?" I think Hoya is right to dump the P&S cameras. Pentax was too late to the game and only has average offerings in that area. And more than likely Pentax isn't going to muscle it's way onto the sidelines of sporting events with fast glass and high fps rates. But what they CAN do (and are already positioned pretty well for) is make every photographer who's thinking about stepping up from a P&S camera to a DSLR ask themselves, "How much money do I want to tie up in this hobby?" For the vast majority of those potential customers, the answer will be, "I don't know right now". Some folks will say, "Hang the cost! I want what the 'pros' are using" and then go out and buy a $2000 Nikon or Canon. But for many, many more people (those who have car payments, mortgages, and other bills to pay), they're going to look for a camera that offers much more flexibility than a P&S camera, but doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Something that will let them get great pics of their kids and also dabble in fine photography. This is how Pentax sold so many Spotmatics and K1000's. Pentax doesn't have to (and can't) compete at the top end of the spectrum. They just need to go back and reclaim the territory they once used to rule.
11-02-2007, 07:51 AM   #85
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What i would like to see is a small range finder camera of very high quality, SR a few high quality lenses ..... a Pentax Leica if you will. it needs to be ~ 25% smaller then a DS, yet feature packed.

Would love a 6 to 8 MP camera with very high ISO and very good DR. Shoots JPG and/or DNG.

What a nice little professional range finder that would be !


wll
11-02-2007, 08:12 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by wll Quote
What i would like to see is a small range finder camera of very high quality, SR a few high quality lenses ..... a Pentax Leica if you will. it needs to be ~ 25% smaller then a DS, yet feature packed.

Would love a 6 to 8 MP camera with very high ISO and very good DR. Shoots JPG and/or DNG.

What a nice little professional range finder that would be !


wll
Indeed, the problem being the relatively big lenses/mount for the type of product if it allows for interchangeable K-mount lenses. But then, the DA 21/40/70 would fit nicely

Oh, and I want no integrated flash but a TTL/PTTL compatible Pentax hot shoe.
11-02-2007, 08:54 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
OK, since this is the official rumor thread I figured I'd post the "latest" unverified, since I can't read japanese:
News from Japan
Rough translation

Hoya wants to gradually minimize Pentax's compact digital camera business in 2-3 years. Hoya concluded that it would be difficult to compete in budget digital camera market. Hoya investigates the profitability of high-end digital cameras, but they will mainly focus on DSLR for now. The decision is based on their forecast that the P&S digital camera market will peak out within 2-3 years. Hoya seeks a niche market with high margin instead. Though Pentax K10d and K100d are going off well, Hoya's standpoint is that it will be hard to provide complete line-up of SLR from entry-level to flagship model as Canon, Nikon and Sony do, considering Pentax's brand and selling power.
Copyright 2007 THE NIKKAN KOGYO SHIMBUN (daily industry newspaper)



For all you HOYA faithful, it doesn't seem like Hoya has much faith in Pentax cameras.....afterall HOW do you create brand and selling power without a product line? One trick ponies won't cut it... Seems they are still in the self-fullfilling prophecy mode...
And my take, HOYA doesn't want to sell cameras, never wanted to sell cameras and will eventually NOT sell cameras, period..... sorry. Hopefully samsung will pick up the pieces and Hoytax may even make the lenses/ modules for their COMPLETE line.
All speculation and really worthless but food for thought.
To Ben and the rest... Pentax better pull a rabbit out of their hat in January.....and start hitting 20% profit margins...
The deck is stacked against them.

I do not know if I am a Hoya faithful or not. I think that they are astute business people in the markets they have served, which I freely admit are not at all related to the retail electronics business, or to the retail photographay business to be more specific.

However, I think rationalizing the product line makes perfect sense and that would have been one of the first things I would have looked at were I in charge of the merger. Drop the dogs, keep any products that are doing ok, and then re-assess and decide just how much (if any) of the P&S market Pentax needs to serve.

Assuming that it is decided that Pentax needs some presence in the P&S market as a customer lead-in to the more profitable DSLR segment, the next step would be to see if re-badged Samsung cameras would fill the bill, especially at the entry level.

Next I would then turn the innovative Pentax Engineering team to producing only those P&S models that fill some niche area (like the waterproof models) that can command a little more margin.

Lastly, I would think about designing a product that bridged the gap between the two. This would be along the lines of a smallish APS-sensored camera (the 6.1mp Sony sensor is more than adequate here in terms of being far superior to the P&S cameras but still being affordable). This would serve as a quality carry around camera for the more serious photographers, but would still work for those that do not want an interchangeable lens DSLR at any price.

At the end of the day, this announcement is no surprise and perfectly in line with normal business practices, so I just do not get the same doom and gloom sense that others apparently feel.

Ray
11-02-2007, 11:15 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
I do not know if I am a Hoya faithful or not. I think that they are astute business people in the markets they have served, which I freely admit are not at all related to the retail electronics business, or to the retail photographay business to be more specific.

However, I think rationalizing the product line makes perfect sense and that would have been one of the first things I would have looked at were I in charge of the merger. Drop the dogs, keep any products that are doing ok, and then re-assess and decide just how much (if any) of the P&S market Pentax needs to serve.

Assuming that it is decided that Pentax needs some presence in the P&S market as a customer lead-in to the more profitable DSLR segment, the next step would be to see if re-badged Samsung cameras would fill the bill, especially at the entry level.

Next I would then turn the innovative Pentax Engineering team to producing only those P&S models that fill some niche area (like the waterproof models) that can command a little more margin.

Lastly, I would think about designing a product that bridged the gap between the two. This would be along the lines of a smallish APS-sensored camera (the 6.1mp Sony sensor is more than adequate here in terms of being far superior to the P&S cameras but still being affordable). This would serve as a quality carry around camera for the more serious photographers, but would still work for those that do not want an interchangeable lens DSLR at any price.

At the end of the day, this announcement is no surprise and perfectly in line with normal business practices, so I just do not get the same doom and gloom sense that others apparently feel.

Ray
I hope your right. Another of my quips is that Hoya never commits. All I EVER here is "this is a tough market"...." that is a dying market"... "there's no profit there"... "we don't want to compete w/ Canon/Nikon/Sony" yet Ben et. al. keep saying that "there in it for the long haul"
I find it hard to converge the 2 "tones" of reports.
IF freaking Hoya just grew some stones and said what they are going to do not just what "may not be prudent to do" it would help. Granted they may not want to "give the secret away" (A position I find highly suspect) or they as of yet really have no solid "roadmap" (which would not be too unusual nor unexpected considering the youth of the marriage) BUT officially NOTHING POSITIVE (personal interpretation) has ever been released. Just 1 shread of evidence that Hoya stands behind cameras (not "since we really don't know where we want to go we'll stick w/ the "winner" ...for now...there's commitment for you) would help a bit.
They seem to just be buying time, and I never ASS-U-ME anything a business is going to do, even after they say what it is. Promised upgrades have a tendency to vaporize in the electronics fields.. Guess I'll just have to wait "till next year" .
ONE bright spot is the "pro service" or whatever it is. Of course it's pretty meaningless (and not too costly) if you have no "pro" products.. (Present company excepted.... Ben)
11-02-2007, 01:58 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
For all you HOYA faithful, it doesn't seem like Hoya has much faith in Pentax cameras.....afterall HOW do you create brand and selling power without a product line? One trick ponies won't cut it... Seems they are still in the self-fullfilling prophecy mode...
Ok, here we go again...
Hoya does not have much faith in Pentax digicams, that is - the Optio range.
It is clear from the quoted article that Hoya wants Pentax to concentrate on high-margin products.
This probably means no more entry level DSLR from Pentax (like the K100D/K110D), better to leave that segment to Samsung and go upmarket with the Pentax brand - staying in the advanced amateur to pro-market (K10D and above). 645D is a clear high margin product, and I do read into the article that Hoya wants Pentax to finally release this baby.
11-02-2007, 02:04 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Just 1 shread of evidence that Hoya stands behind cameras (not "since we really don't know where we want to go we'll stick w/ the "winner" ...for now...there's commitment for you) would help a bit.
Well, Hoya should not stand behind the cameras - better to leave that to Ben and other photographers. *grin*

But seriously, Hoya is backing up the cameras. Why would they going through all the trouble to make a separate division for cameras, lenses and binoculars if they didn't believed in the business? Yes, Hoya Imaging Systems will begin it's operation in 1st of April 2008 (it is silly that the financial year starts at 1st April, but it is like that in Japan). Pentax Imaging Business will not die, it will live on as a separate division inside Hoya. We have had letters from Mr Suzuki here, we have a letter from Ned Bunnel, President of Pentax US, and many other signs that Hoya is backing Pentax - and this is not enough for you. I understand that you want the products and to the talk, but the products will be announced in January.
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