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10-30-2007, 11:07 AM   #16
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I have cameras sitting on my shelf right now with the following names:

Asahi Pentax
Honeywell Pentax
(Just plain old) Pentax

Hoya-Pentax is no big deal. Just another name.

Hoya is a profitable well respected company. They are NOT Sparx. They did not buy Pentax to split and sell off the bits and pieces. They have repeatedly stated that they intend to make Pentax Imaging more profitable and grow the business. If folding Pentax Imaging into the Hoya management structure works to improve expenses and smooth communication, then that is a good thing. It is also much easier to sell off a wholly owned subsidiary than spin off a corporate division. So turning Pentax into a division of Hoya is probably a good thing (just opinion).

The bad news I am gleaning from several statements, is that I think the days of Pentax being an absolute bargain for it's feature set are about over. I suspect that the next body releases will reflect pricing much closer to the Nikon/Canon equivalents. hopefully, the QC and features set will be worthy of those higher prices.

10-30-2007, 02:01 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Timbuctoo Quote
Minolta, the first camera on the moon...
Tim H
I was always under the impression that it... was a special version of the Hasselblad 500
10-30-2007, 03:28 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by roscot Quote
The bad news I am gleaning from several statements, is that I think the days of Pentax being an absolute bargain for it's feature set are about over. I suspect that the next body releases will reflect pricing much closer to the Nikon/Canon equivalents. hopefully, the QC and features set will be worthy of those higher prices.
If they continue turning out products with the quality and features of the K10d I won't mind this at all. This is a camera which is a lot better than other bodies at the same price point. As for lenses, let's take the example of a 50mm f/1.4 (all going by the same UK retailer)... Nikon: 216. Canon: 248.00. Sony: 279.00(!)... Pentax? 199. Admittedly it's only one example, but still I think Pentax can afford to raise their price more in like with Nikon and Canon (not Sony!) without it bothering most of us or (hopefully) potential first-time buyers. I agree with you; if they can follow up on the K10d and ensure a high quality (and availability!) of glass, then a higher price is actually rather a small price to pay for it. I would much rather pay a bit more than have them compromise on something like build quality or QC.
10-30-2007, 07:21 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
If they continue turning out products with the quality and features of the K10d I won't mind this at all. This is a camera which is a lot better than other bodies at the same price point. As for lenses, let's take the example of a 50mm f/1.4 (all going by the same UK retailer)... Nikon: 216. Canon: 248.00. Sony: 279.00(!)... Pentax? 199. Admittedly it's only one example, but still I think Pentax can afford to raise their price more in like with Nikon and Canon (not Sony!) without it bothering most of us or (hopefully) potential first-time buyers. I agree with you; if they can follow up on the K10d and ensure a high quality (and availability!) of glass, then a higher price is actually rather a small price to pay for it. I would much rather pay a bit more than have them compromise on something like build quality or QC.
By reducing list price there is always the perception of "cheapness" even if its unwarranted. There is a risk you devalue the brand that way.

Better to go for quality build and materials and charge a small premium which you can always offer rebates on when you want to achieve volume.

I would rather pay a little more for a guarantee of quality and reliability (something Pentax used to be renowned for) with less emphasis on features and more on ultimate IQ. But then I like cameras not gadgets. Hell - I dont even have an IPOD...

10-30-2007, 07:25 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
The former Pentax Imaging Business division in Pentax, will retain but under Hoya's umbrella instead of Pentax. The Imaging Business division won't be merged into Hoya, because Hoya does not have a similar division to merge with. This means that the cameras, the binoculars etc. will form a separate division inside Hoya and be led by Mr K D Torigoe, current chief executive of Pentax Imaging Business Corp..
This means they will be managed seperately but their results will contribute to the bottom line of Hoya Corp - this is a sign of real confidence.

QuoteQuote:
This means that Hoya is even more serious in it's aim to support a strong imaging business division. By keeping Mr K D Torigoe (he is also member of the board since a couple of months), and by keeping the Image Business as a division, this ensures that the high moral among Pentax employees such as designers and technicians are retain. This Image-division will keep the soul of Pentax alive and kickin', it will build upon the proud heritage of Pentax.
Hope youre right there!

QuoteQuote:
And no, I don't expect to see the brand "Hoya Pentax" on our cameras any time soon.
It simply wouldn't make sense from a marketing perspective. Pentax means cameras, Hoya means filters.
Hoya own the Pentax brand - why change a good thing? Sony did not buy the Minolta brand. They had no choice. The cameras will be badged Pentax for the foreseeable future - I am sure of it.
10-30-2007, 07:29 PM   #21
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Pentax Pricing

QuoteOriginally posted by roscot Quote
The bad news I am gleaning from several statements, is that I think the days of Pentax being an absolute bargain for it's feature set are about over. I suspect that the next body releases will reflect pricing much closer to the Nikon/Canon equivalents. hopefully, the QC and features set will be worthy of those higher prices.
I don't think that Pentax can raise their prices that much just yet. They still don't have the name recognition outside of camera enthusiast circles. I was on a BBS a few days ago that was related to ocean cruises. Someone posted a question looking for recommendations for a new digital camera; specifically a DSLR. As expected, he got several recommendations for Nikons and several for Canons. No one mentioned Pentax, even though the OP specifically said he wanted a dslr and that budget was an issue.

This episode tells me that Pentax doesn't yet have enough market penetration. When people think of cameras, they think of N, C and perhaps Sony and Panasonic. SONY and PANASONIC???? Those two have been making cameras for maybe five years. Pentax is one of the most established camera makers around.

For the foreseeable future, I think that Pentax must continue to be the value leader, as they are now. Sure, the rumored new cameras will probably be more expensive than the K10D, but if they tried to jump immediately to N & C prices, they would, IMHO, fall flat on their faces. Right now, they're selling a lot of cameras on the basis that the build-quality and feature set are right up there with the competition, but the price blows them away. Even with that major price difference in Pentax' favor, N & C still handily outsell them. Why, because people go to a camera store and ask for a Niikon or Canon. As we've seen from many threads here, salesman are not keen to push Pentax when he/she sees an easy N or C sale. Besides, the salesperson probably gets a larger commission on the larger price.

The K10D has really turned some heads. People who had written Pentax off as hopelessly out of date or a distant also-ran, have begun (but only begun) looking closely at Pentax again. I think they must continue this trend for at least a few more years. When more people start walking into a camera store and asking for a Pentax, maybe they can think about closing the price gap.

But then, what do I know...?

Paul Noble
10-30-2007, 07:36 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
(snip)...For the foreseeable future, I think that Pentax must continue to be the value leader, as they are now...(snip)
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. A lot of people bought into Pentax for the value it presents. Even then, the K10D didn't really have shabby quality in terms of IQ or build, even at it's low price point.

I hate to think that the K10D will be the last camera Pentax will make that has a very good feature set for a very good price.
10-31-2007, 03:47 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
I hate to think that the K10D will be the last camera Pentax will make that has a very good feature set for a very good price.
I'm sure that won't happen. But let's not forget that the K10d doesn't have a very good feature set for a very good price. It has a fantastic feature set for an extremely low price. For example it is cheaper than the Nikon D80 and it beats the pants off it in terms of features. So my point is that even if they raise the price a bit it will still represent very good value for money... as long as they can continue offering better features (note I say better features, not higher numbers on a spec sheet) to justify it.

QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
Better to go for quality build and materials and charge a small premium which you can always offer rebates on when you want to achieve volume.

I would rather pay a little more for a guarantee of quality and reliability (something Pentax used to be renowned for) with less emphasis on features and more on ultimate IQ. But then I like cameras not gadgets. Hell - I dont even have an IPOD...
Well said. Pentax still offer products which seem better built than much of the competition. Even the cheap and flimsy kit lens seems less cheap and flimsy than those of the other companies. I would like to see this continue or even improve. It will take a lot to convince most consumers that Pentax actually offers better IQ than the competition. But meanwhile, Pentax can offer a great feature set (real features like good sealing, not just bigger numbers) and they offer very good build quality. If Pentax have to charge a little more for these things then I am happy to pay, because they will still offer the best value. In short, good value doesn't simply mean the lowest price... it means giving the most for the money.

10-31-2007, 04:31 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Well, it's all good. I think Hoya/Pentax and Samsung have plans to take the number three spot in the DSLR market.

I only see that as a good thing for a K-mount user.
Powers combined they could have "Pentoya Takumar" on the lenses and "Samtax" on the bodies
10-31-2007, 04:41 AM   #25
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My only point here is currently, the K10D is put in the same bucket as the Nikon D40x and Canon 400D, because that is where the price point resides. The camera is not an entry level like the Canon and Nikon. It is a mid to mid-High level and really needs to be commonly compared with the Canon 30/40D and the Nikon D80. By commonly compared, I mean by the great unkowing public (and camera salesmen).

See what I mean?
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-releases/13167-popphotos-d40-...fers-k10d.html

Never mind, he is referring to the C 40 D not the N D40.

Even if the K10D were priced like the 30/40D and D80, it would compete very favorably. By pricing it where it is Pentax has gained some extra sales, but more importantly, has gained a lot of visibility.

Time to notch it up a bit. I'll be very interested in what the rumored announcements in January turn up.
10-31-2007, 08:39 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZaphodB Quote
I'm sure that won't happen. But let's not forget that the K10d doesn't have a very good feature set for a very good price. It has a fantastic feature set for an extremely low price. For example it is cheaper than the Nikon D80 and it beats the pants off it in terms of features. So my point is that even if they raise the price a bit it will still represent very good value for money... as long as they can continue offering better features (note I say better features, not higher numbers on a spec sheet) to justify it.
You're right, I stand corrected about the K10D. Fantastic feature set for an extremely low price.

Yup, I guess I'm also willing to pay a little more coin still on the price the K10D is going right now, but not to the relative price point that the 40D is going for right now. One of the things that can really make a consumer rethink about his/her options is pricing. If the K10D was priced at the level of the D200, it wouldn't be the hit camera it is right now. It's a harder sell. Canon and Nikon can bank on their being more of household names now than Pentax, that's why they could charge more for their lesser-spec'ed machines.

Roscot, yup, it would seem that it's time to ratchet up the machines, but not at the cost of abandoning the good vibes and buzz the K10D generated. The higher model of the rumored two coming out can have all the bells and whistles at a higher price point, but the K10D upgrade should at least retain its predecessor's standing as the best value.

Not a bad strategy, I think. The pros have their body, the hobbyists have their own. Both having the same superb IQ, but the pro body gives the extras pros need (higher FPS, etc.). The K10D upgrade providing the base for new users, some who would eventually upgrade to the higher end body.
10-31-2007, 08:57 AM   #27
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My belief is that Pentax may go for more firmware-features than the competition, because firmware is cheaper than hardware, and by this still offering more for the money. The K10D already has some clever firmware (the novel customisation of e-dials, the tweaking of white balance-presents and auto white balance, the built-in RAW-converter etc.) and this can, could (should?) be expanded further. Pentax has shown in the past that they are not afraid of odd-thinking (the most adventorous of them was perhaps the non-standard mounting of the hot-shoe in the Z-bodies).

I am absolutely positive!
10-31-2007, 10:47 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
(the most adventorous of them was perhaps the non-standard mounting of the hot-shoe in the Z-bodies).
Yeah, a pitty they dropped that one
10-31-2007, 10:50 AM   #29
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Maybe "Pentax" on bodies, and "SMC Hoya" on lenses? would be great
10-31-2007, 05:40 PM   #30
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Not so sure about that..

People are seeing "Schnider" (sp?) on their samsungs and zeiss on their sonys.
Don't want people looking at the lens and seeing "Hoya"

Hoya? What's a hoya?

A google search will show them a bunch of mid range filters.

The pentax name has a history behind it for quality bodies and quality lenses. The name should stay on both.
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