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11-07-2007, 05:24 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I totally agree (and I think most do) on what is written here. Exactly the problem Pentax (and has always have for quite a time). Marketing money alone shold greatly improve things. If they continue to put to market product like K100/K10, they should do well IMO.
They will never be in a position to expend the kind of money on marketing that Canon do. As such they will always be at a considerable disadvantage in a market which is still largely driven by hype. However what they can do is to continue to build a reputation (which has sadly declined in recent months with so many IQ complaints) for quality and reliability with the influencers (retailers, the press, the photographers). I think on the whole these guys like to back an underdog if they have something worth backing.

I am not sure that big ad campaigns will be half as useful as dealer incentives for moving product. I see signs of that changing in the UK where Pentax has targeted some good local independent retailers in strategic areas and made them Pentax Pro centres. Support for the product has definately improved in those stores beyond all recognition.

Sadly they are still struggling with some of the bigger chains who have big pre-order incentives from Canon/Nikon which are hard to match or beat. Supply issues have also dogged them a bit this year.

11-07-2007, 06:49 AM   #47
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Big ad campaigns are not always required for the success of a product. Back in the days of film, everyone knew that the two largest selling brands of film were Kodak and Fuji. But practically nobody knew that the third best selling film was made by 3M. 3M did this with virtually no advertising. Instead, they made their film available to be sold as the house brand at WalMart, Target, Moto-Photo, etc... Millions of dollars in sales with almost no advertising. The only point I'm trying to make is that we shouldn't be dismayed if Pentax doesn't follow the Nikon/Canon format for success. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
11-07-2007, 01:37 PM   #48
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Sure Steve I agree, they will never have the marketing power of Canon, but right now (or let's say, 2 years ago) there was ZERO marketing from Pentax... as if they didn't want to sell a product.

In Belgium they recently changed their distributor from Pentax Benelux to DeBeukelaer (who distributes a large number of brands from the Photo market) and it goes already much better.
An example? A shop which never sold Pentax because "c'mon you don't want to buy 'that'" does sell Pentax now. It the deal is failry simple:

You wanna have enough D200 quantities? Fine, sell 1/3 (I made up the proportion) of K10D and you will get more D200. I don't like that. It is crap (and I stay polite ) but unfortunately, it works VERY well.
11-07-2007, 03:44 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
build a reputation (which has sadly declined in recent months with so many IQ complaints)
So, do something already about these IQ complaints with the current K10D instead of not acknowledging any of it, and doing NO firmware updates aimed at IQ as if ALL is as designed.

EVERYTHING can't be hardwired.

Great if they do what's needed to build that reputation for the January cameras, but after all these months, not good if they consider the K10D a dead issue.

Considering what they are going to charge for those January cameras, and the increased profit through Hoya's influence, they don't need to use the excuse of "limited resources" relegating the current K10D to old dead product status. Better to invest a bit of the Hoya windfall intelligently in making current K10D owners even happier for when they can finally afford to upgrade what Pentax is making in a year or two (now deciding to buy Pentax accessories in the meantime).


Last edited by mutley; 11-07-2007 at 03:54 PM.
11-07-2007, 06:36 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Big ad campaigns are not always required for the success of a product. Back in the days of film, everyone knew that the two largest selling brands of film were Kodak and Fuji. But practically nobody knew that the third best selling film was made by 3M. 3M did this with virtually no advertising. Instead, they made their film available to be sold as the house brand at WalMart, Target, Moto-Photo, etc... Millions of dollars in sales with almost no advertising. The only point I'm trying to make is that we shouldn't be dismayed if Pentax doesn't follow the Nikon/Canon format for success. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
You are correct there is more than one way to skin a cat, however you do not want to private label the brand. You need to find ways to promote it and compete with the big two, is it quality of build, more detail, better color reproduction, whatever the case may be accetuate the positives and go after their weaknesses. Pentax/Hoya does not need to break the bank in advertising but a few well done campaigns and/or sponsorships of events that are in their traditional customers area of intrest (also strength of the equipment kept in mind) would go a long way. One of the hockey rinks my son practices at was haveing something video taped that was going to be aired nationaly and a equipment maker was going to hang a banner, the manager of the Pro Shop said to them if you are going to hang that and be displayed nationaly don't you think we should be an authorized dealer? A few phone calls later they are now an authorized dealer for that equipment, don't sit idlely by ask for what you want, demand what you need. BTW spiffs as they are known in retail go along way to getting sales pepole to learn about and promote your product.
11-08-2007, 02:22 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
So, do something already about these IQ complaints with the current K10D instead of not acknowledging any of it, and doing NO firmware updates aimed at IQ as if ALL is as designed.

EVERYTHING can't be hardwired.

Great if they do what's needed to build that reputation for the January cameras, but after all these months, not good if they consider the K10D a dead issue.

Considering what they are going to charge for those January cameras, and the increased profit through Hoya's influence, they don't need to use the excuse of "limited resources" relegating the current K10D to old dead product status. Better to invest a bit of the Hoya windfall intelligently in making current K10D owners even happier for when they can finally afford to upgrade what Pentax is making in a year or two (now deciding to buy Pentax accessories in the meantime).
If you think a product soon to be replaced by another is a dead product good for you? And especially good for Pentax.
11-08-2007, 02:57 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
Considering what they are going to charge for those January cameras, and the increased profit through Hoya's influence, they don't need to use the excuse of "limited resources" relegating the current K10D to old dead product status. Better to invest a bit of the Hoya windfall intelligently in making current K10D owners even happier for when they can finally afford to upgrade what Pentax is making in a year or two (now deciding to buy Pentax accessories in the meantime).
Dear Mr Mutley,

many here are very pleased with the image quality of the K10D and does not see any problems with the JPEG's nor RAW. We have discussed this endless time.

Pentax has issued more firmwares to add functionality and features than any other makers, the v1.11 upgarde was a really big one for the K10D. Remember the v2 upgrade for the *ist DS? It too was a big upgrade in functionality and features. But there is of course a limit to to how many functions you can add to a camera in firmware. Pentax has already gone beyond the user manual.

Did Canon release a firmware upgrade to the 20D when they released the 30D? And how about a firmware upgrade for the 30D now that the 40D is out? My friends 20D are still overexposing in normal light conditions so that the sky is overblowned and can't be rescued in post processing. The sky is all blank!

I'm sorry that you are not happy with the performance of your Pentax and I'm sorry that you regret buying into Pentax because of this unhappiness. But your personal story and experience of Pentax is, thankfully, not common.

Your sincerely
R
11-08-2007, 08:21 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
Dear Mr Mutley,

many here are very pleased with the image quality of the K10D and does not see any problems with the JPEG's nor RAW. We have discussed this endless time.

Pentax has issued more firmwares to add functionality and features than any other makers, the v1.11 upgarde was a really big one for the K10D. Remember the v2 upgrade for the *ist DS? It too was a big upgrade in functionality and features. But there is of course a limit to to how many functions you can add to a camera in firmware. Pentax has already gone beyond the user manual.

Did Canon release a firmware upgrade to the 20D when they released the 30D? And how about a firmware upgrade for the 30D now that the 40D is out? My friends 20D are still overexposing in normal light conditions so that the sky is overblowned and can't be rescued in post processing. The sky is all blank!

I'm sorry that you are not happy with the performance of your Pentax and I'm sorry that you regret buying into Pentax because of this unhappiness. But your personal story and experience of Pentax is, thankfully, not common.

Your sincerely
R
Man... I couldn't agree more. It's hard to understand the dissatisfaction of some people. My wife and I could not be happier with our new Pentax k10d cameras. It seems to me that the photography hobby consumes some people in a different manner. For us... we just enjoy getting out and making images. We're not pixel counters. We don't read endless reviews of benchmark tests... resolution charts... and so forth. No camera is perfect. Nor is the person standing behind the viewfinder. No one. This doom and gloom discussion (which never seems to end) is little more than speculation. No one can know the future so why the endless hand-wringing. "Oh... woe is me! Hoya has purchased my beloved Pentax. The end of the world is at hand!" For crying out loud... the president of Pentax USA has made it clear that it is NOT the end of things. So stop trying to read between the lines. Stop inserting your own ideas and spin into the mix. Just take it at face value and move forward. Get out and enjoy your camera and the make images. Enjoy the wonderful hobby of photography. If the camera does not do everything you think it should do...then get creative! Eugene Smith, Diane Arbus, Adams, Westin... and a whole host of marvelous photogs did NOT have the advantages we have with our incredible digital cameras but they did not sit and wring their hands in despair. They simply went out and made fantastic images that many of us have hanging on our walls. Do the same.

11-08-2007, 01:13 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by JamesD Quote
If the camera does not do everything you think it should do...then get creative!
Very righteous, but actually we all do this already, I assume.

Doesn't hurt, though, for things to be improved if they can. There were no firmware updates in the "old" days. In some ways now its just a matter of the manufacturer wanting to when the resources exist, and the product is not considered old and dead. The K10D can still be improved by firmware, even if by a small amount.
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