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04-18-2011, 06:32 PM   #16
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You know I agree with the stat's totally. I own Pentax and am fairly happy, but Pentax has too many problems. Even if the problems are solved and they make the best camera it will take years before the market share is enough to make a difference. Especially in lens production. And to small a product line to really compete.

My guess is Sony will eventually take over Nikon and will compete with Canon in 10 years.

I really like Sony. With lens production increases.. It will take nikon and knock on canons door soon. As the best DSLR and lens combos ever produced..

04-18-2011, 07:56 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by garyk Quote
it will take years before the market share is enough to make a difference
It's important that it has enough marketshare to be profitable, to develop new products at reasonable price points, and distribute and support those products globally. That's all. So far it is doing that. Pentax doesn't have to be Canon to be considered viable or a success, now or into the future. Ditto for Olympus and others.

And I don't see Sony taking over Nikon anytime soon. Different keiretsu
04-18-2011, 08:16 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by hawk1500 Quote
Anyone else find it sad that Vivitar has almost as large a share as Pentax (and even grew from 2009 to 2010 by quite a bit)?
Vivitar's most expensive digital camera is $85.00. I imagine they would sell a few!
04-18-2011, 09:15 PM   #19
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Pentax certainly doesn't need the market share of a Canon, Nikon... or even Sony. But seeing 1.7% drop to 1.5% is worrying. As others have said, they need to sell enough cameras to make a profit, invest in R&D to develop high-quality, reasonably priced products... and distribute and support those products.

For now, the price increases for Pentax cameras and (especially) lenses over the past few years have bought the company time. But, as Hoya has stated publicly, Pentax needs a partner. Clearly, that partner isn't going to be Samsung. But I think Panasonic would be a good fit.

If Hoya continues to go it alone with Pentax, I suspect we'll see fewer new products ahead... and when we do see them, the prices will be higher. That's how it worked with Leica. The only problem is, the world doesn't have room for two Leicas. How many of us can afford a $7000 camera body with each lens running $2000-$3000?

I presume the P&S segment makes money for Pentax or they wouldn't continue to brand those cameras. But, with camera phones eating the P&S segment's lunch, I think a better idea would be for Pentax to draw the line at the high-end enthusiast compact segment - a la the Panasonic LX5, Olympus XZ1 and Canon S95. I believe Pentax would do well to sell a camera with a 1/1.6 sensor that they designed and built themselves.

04-18-2011, 10:19 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by dmc Quote
Vivitar's most expensive digital camera is $85.00. I imagine they would sell a few!
I was under the impression that no one buys them...especially since the cheapest...say, Canon, is like $89 (or Nikon, Fuji, whatever the mainstream average person buys).
04-19-2011, 01:46 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by hawk1500 Quote
Anyone else find it sad that Vivitar has almost as large a share as Pentax (and even grew from 2009 to 2010 by quite a bit)?
Vivitar was last year overhere in supermarket Lidl, so that means a lot of camera's sold with penny's for a margin. No way those people are ever going to buy a Pentax camera.
04-19-2011, 01:56 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paolo.Bosetti Quote
Only Kodak and Casio performed worst, and there are a bunch of "+" (though marginal) notwithstanding the crisis...
There are no crisis in percentages unless there were no cameras sold.

The total percentage will allways be 100.

I don't think Hoya even looks at this numbers as they are a sum of several markets that they are approching with diferent strategies. They are looking at absolute growth, profitability and things like that.

Have fun,
Luis
04-19-2011, 03:30 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
Pentax certainly doesn't need the market share of a Canon, Nikon... or even Sony. But seeing 1.7% drop to 1.5% is worrying. As others have said, they need to sell enough cameras to make a profit, invest in R&D to develop high-quality, reasonably priced products... and distribute and support those products. .

They do. The DSLR's are profitable and successful. The drop is due to P&S, which Pentax is not so interested in and which hardly anyone make money on.

04-19-2011, 09:16 AM   #24
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Boy I sure hope they just keep on plugging along. It will save me big time.

I saw an article with head of marketing for Pentax and he said.. We have to be careful and go slow. Which makes sense?
And also says no development other than is necessary to stay in business.

How many of you guys own stock in Hoya? Betting on Pentax making a big comback. And turn a big profit for Hoya?

Bloomberg show a -31% return for the last year.

Also looking at a 5 yr. graph it looks like about the time Hoya bought Pentax the stock took a nose dive and never recovered.

Personally I don't care one way or another, but I sure would'nt buy into the company.
Or buy there products while things look so bad. I personally wish i would of done my homework before i bought into Pentax glass. but I didn't and have lucked out with a fairly good K-5. Looking ahead though. It stops here for me.

Last edited by garyk; 04-19-2011 at 09:21 AM.
04-19-2011, 11:15 AM   #25
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I've read about this on several other sites now, with varying levels of doom and gloom about various manufacturers and the industry as a whole. Pentax is very often held up as an example of a company in dire straits, ready to go under at any time.

Typically I don't pay much attention to such news. When I made the move to digital, my decision to go with Pentax was based upon the performance, image quality, and ergonomics of the cameras compared to their respective peers in other brands. I knew I was giving up certain things (readily available accessories, some lens types,etc., both OEM and aftermarket) that might annoy me a bit now and then, but the value for the dollar, the image quality, and admittedly the uniqueness of the brand in many respects keeps me satisfied.

And should Pentax miraculously fold in the next year?

Well, I'll still be using my K20D and K-x backup, along with a smattering of wonderful lenses that give me results I just didn't get when I tried out some of those brands that top the market share charts. Sometimes it was an image quality thing, sometimes ergonomics, and there were some I just didn't like for some undefinable reason. Should Pentax fold (and I sincerely doubt that's going to happen in the near term at the very least) you won't find me in a mad rush to sell off my equipment in hopes of scraping together enough cash to buy the latest and greatest from Canikon, Sony, or whomever else.

When and if the times comes that Pentax as a company is but a memory, it's used market all but bereft of gear, well, then I'll get off my duff, check the accounts, and see about gear from some other company.

I just think that day is a long ways off
04-19-2011, 12:51 PM   #26
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Just because supposedly their market share decreased, doesnt mean they made less money. There was a thread on DPR quoting Hoya's chairman (CEO??) explaining they are concentrating on more profitable markets and channels. They had made a concious decision to avoid the low cost high turnover markets. Whilst not actually stated, it suggested some countries were being avoided and volume supply chains such as say Walmart were being avoided in order to retain sales value and that strategy was working for them.

Secondly, last year everyone was saying "Oh, Sony cant continue like this, buying market share". Yet they seem to be surviving.

Thirdly (and finally) here in the UK, when I worked for ICI Dulux (Paint), we were the biggest paint company in the UK. B&Q was our biggest customer, but the profit was minisucle per litre in B&Q compared to independents. We only made money through sheer volume, and that was only done to keep the competitors out. If we damaged a couple of tins on a pallet, that could be the whole profit gone for that order. High volume, very low margins is a very dangerous game unless you have extremly deep pockets, and can hold out long enough to afford to buy market share, ie Sony. Hoya are far more cautious and are taking the smaller market higher margin route. For my money a far better bet at this time in the worlds economy.

Woody
04-19-2011, 03:02 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by garyk Quote
Bloomberg show a -31% return for the last year.
You are looking just at the share price. Nikon's stock price dropped 20% over the last year too. But unlike (for example) Nikon, Hoya's earnings were actually positive over the last year. Hoya was making money over the last year, Nikon wasn't. So your gloom and doom may be misguided.

I find camera people a bit strange. On any other vertical forums - autos, mobile phones, PC's - you never hear people carrying on in similar terms - ie as if their purchasing decisions were based on the 20 year market forecast for the company that made their car or computer or toaster.

Last edited by rawr; 04-19-2011 at 03:08 PM.
04-19-2011, 08:50 PM   #28
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Looks like Hoya would be looking for a suitor soon...Samsung wont touch it..I would be thrilled if Fuji buys it...We all love our Pentax, and thats not going to change anytime soon.
04-20-2011, 06:34 AM   #29
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All I know is that better marketing, at least here is the US could do nothing but help their market share. I have yet to see a thread here or elsewhere that shows an understanding of Pentax's overall strategy, which is so frustrating. Pentax has put out some great products of late (yes past too). Though I completely agree much of what Canikon does has a very questionable ROI, crossing your fingers that getting some good camera reviews will do the trick sure isn't the answer either. Arrgh.
04-20-2011, 10:32 AM   #30
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Aggressive marketing is a huge risk, specially against SoCaNikon which have a lot more money to throw at it. If ROI isn't right, you lost the money in a hole where you might have used it in development.
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