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04-29-2011, 05:59 PM   #46
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Is the big gap between the 4/3 sensor and the p&s sensors a matter of marketing or is there no real application for a sensor in the middle size?

04-29-2011, 06:51 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
latest 10mp 1/1.6x"-1.7x" will beat 6mp APS-C of *istDx era @ base ISO and almost reach 10mp generation sensors of K10D era... at base ISO of course...
It's trickery. They use dynamic compression to squeeze the dynamic range of the scene. If you want to compare an APS-C camera vs. the latest compacts, shoot the APS-C with Highlight and Shadow Compensation turned on. The 4/3 manufacturers are using the same trick to make DR look better than it is.
04-29-2011, 07:01 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
Is the big gap between the 4/3 sensor and the p&s sensors a matter of marketing or is there no real application for a sensor in the middle size?
Draw a diagonal from the bottom left corner of the grid to the top right corner of the 4/3 sensor. Cut the line in half, that's the size of the 2/3 sensor. It should have been included, there have been quite a few cameras with that format. But yeah, there is a big gap. No compelling reason for the manufacturers to offer that size I guess. It's fish nor fowl. The cameras I know of with 2/3 sensors have been DSLR-sized.
04-29-2011, 07:22 PM   #49
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Aps-c has a huge advantage on the sensor in the DXO mark but how big is the difference when looking at a picture using aps-c vs 4/3 sensor when shooting landscapes w/ highlights and shadows?

04-29-2011, 08:02 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
latest 10mp 1/1.6x"-1.7x" will beat 6mp APS-C of *istDx era @ base ISO and almost reach 10mp generation sensors of K10D era... at base ISO of course...
Absurd. No any chances at all. K10D? It' was the best DSLR in RAW among another 10 MP DSLR. What are you talking about?
If we take Nikon D70 with weak AA filter? It kills any P&S with 1/1.6". Very small size of pixels of P&S - how to be? It's impossible to improve.

It's easy to see photos here
Olympus XZ-1 Review: 11. Compared to (Raw): Digital Photography Review

and to understand that it's P&S pictures. Yes, it's better than another P&S cameras in terms of details and maybe noise...but...it's not DSLR.
XZ-1 makes very good work in RAW at ISO100. But it's all...The structure of image is grainy and noise is visible even at base ISO.
Some of details (espec. in shadows) are invisible...It's not bad for P&S camera. Even VERY GOOD. But...It's not DSLR and such camera can't replace DSLR.

Last edited by ogl; 04-29-2011 at 08:19 PM.
04-29-2011, 08:39 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Draw a diagonal from the bottom left corner of the grid to the top right corner of the 4/3 sensor. Cut the line in half, that's the size of the 2/3 sensor. It should have been included, there have been quite a few cameras with that format. But yeah, there is a big gap. No compelling reason for the manufacturers to offer that size I guess. It's fish nor fowl. The cameras I know of with 2/3 sensors have been DSLR-sized.
Thanks for the explanation. I see your point. Sample. Here's another (has it really been ten years!!).
04-29-2011, 09:57 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
It's trickery.
not more than 16mp APS-C Sony sensor @ base ISO beating 2-3 years old FF sensors...
04-29-2011, 10:17 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
easy to see Pentax *istDL or another 6mp APS-C camera there ? I don't think so - there you will see no less than 10mp cameras... and take best in terms of DR performance Canon S95/G12 instead of XZ1 = you gladly accept DxOmark DR comparison when K5 beats FF sensor at base ISO for DR, but refuse to accept the same comparison when S95 beats 6MP ASP-C sensor and almost reaches (1/2 EV gap) 10mp APS-C sensors ...

04-29-2011, 11:25 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
and take best in terms of DR performance Canon S95/G12 instead of XZ1 = you gladly accept DxOmark DR comparison when K5 beats FF sensor at base ISO for DR, but refuse to accept the same comparison when S95 beats 6MP ASP-C sensor
Offer us RAW files with the same object "snapped" with 6 MP DSLR and Canon S95/LX5.
04-30-2011, 02:47 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Offer us RAW files with the same object "snapped" with 6 MP DSLR and Canon S95/LX5.
No, you should since you have unreasonable claims.
04-30-2011, 04:13 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
easy to see Pentax *istDL or another 6mp APS-C camera there ? I don't think so - there you will see no less than 10mp cameras... and take best in terms of DR performance Canon S95/G12 instead of XZ1 = you gladly accept DxOmark DR comparison when K5 beats FF sensor at base ISO for DR, but refuse to accept the same comparison when S95 beats 6MP ASP-C sensor and almost reaches (1/2 EV gap) 10mp APS-C sensors ...

The question in my mind is how much data is really there. If you shoot at base iso, how much can you really bring up the shadows before noise starts creeping in? My experience with the k10 at iso 100 was that you could add a couple of stops of fill light before there was noise in the shadows. Could you really do the same thing with a G11 or G12 without significant noise levels?

It is clear that K5 files stand up to the same manipulations in post processing that full frame files stand up to (at base iso) without noise being an issue. If these point and shoot sensors are really as good as you say, they should be able to take the same kind of post processing.
04-30-2011, 09:01 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
I find EVF in GH2 to be a good one for a non action shooting
Maybe.

Still to me feels like a work-in-progress technology and still too far away from been acceptable.

I find the EVF's very hard on the eyes after a while and still nowhere near the quality of an OVF, plus there's still some lag.

One day the tech will get better, but until then I'd rather not pay for something that's still "in development" so to speak.
04-30-2011, 08:11 PM   #58
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What do you think about a P&S Camera with changeable lenses and typical small sensor and later a aps-c sensor with a new evil and a new k compatible mount?
04-30-2011, 08:26 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by zackspeed Quote
What do you think about a P&S Camera with changeable lenses and typical small sensor and later a aps-c sensor with a new evil and a new k compatible mount?
I think that's what most here are expecting.

Last edited by audiobomber; 04-30-2011 at 08:42 PM.
04-30-2011, 11:46 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The words from offical Pentax. Not rumors.
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Anton Melnikov (Pentax representative) says that journalists interpret his words in wrong way. It's not official info....Sad....
Never take any words from any Pentax rep as "official".
It is NOT official until you see an official press release from Pentax.
Not many people outside Pentax Japan are fully informed about cameras in development.
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