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05-23-2013, 10:55 PM   #1621
ogl
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Ahh... Pentax-bashing at it's finest, an usual morning on Pentax forums (if I want a more constructive approach towards Pentax, should I go to Canon or Nikon forums?)

Show me proof that K-30 is indeed "trading at a loss", or I'll have to assume you made that up.
.
Go to Ricoh web-site, download Financial Results and you will see
Financial Results / Investor Relations / About Ricoh | Ricoh Global

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05-23-2013, 10:57 PM   #1622
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and here
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05-23-2013, 11:04 PM   #1623
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Go to Ricoh web-site, download Financial Results and you will see
Financial Results / Investor Relations / About Ricoh | Ricoh Global
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
and here
And how in fact do you extract the K-30 numbers from these financial statements?
And how exactly do you conclude that Ricoh Pentax is selling the K-30 at a loss based on these financial statements?
05-23-2013, 11:15 PM   #1624
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
And how in fact do you extract the K-30 numbers from these financial statements?
And how exactly do you conclude that Ricoh Pentax is selling the K-30 at a loss based on these financial statements?
There is additional financial report of previous year before K-5II launch. And we can see K-30 there. I have no time to find now.
I've already shown this info here. In this forum.
When I will have time, I will find and show again.





Last edited by ogl; 05-24-2013 at 12:29 AM.
05-24-2013, 12:50 AM   #1625
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I'm waiting for data specifically showing that the K-30 is "trading at a loss", or at least that it was. Until then, as I said, I'll assume the statement to be false.
No offense, but it seems you have a tendency to show random pieces of generic data when specific evidence is requested.
05-24-2013, 01:34 AM   #1626
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm waiting for data specifically showing that the K-30 is "trading at a loss", or at least that it was. Until then, as I said, I'll assume the statement to be false.
He's got a pretty clear-cut chart showing the net profits lost during the period where the K-30 was the dominant product within the Pentax-Ricoh portfolio, I don't think it gets any more specific than that
05-24-2013, 01:44 AM   #1627
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He edited the post, the chart wasn't there.
But, it's exactly as I suspected. The chart is not about the K-30! It shows the performance of the entire "Other" division, which includes but is not limited to Pentax Ricoh Imaging. "New DSLR camera Pentax K-30 launched" is simply a highlight.

By the way, after acquiring Pentax, sales in the "Other" division grew by a mere 4.9%, "primarily due to Pentax". And the K-30 is just one product... do the math!
http://www.ricoh.com/IR/financial_data/financial_result/data/24_3/flash.pdf

Last edited by Kunzite; 05-24-2013 at 01:54 AM.
05-24-2013, 01:54 AM   #1628
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
[...]
K-30 has no good sales. Trading at a loss. If this camera is the best entry-level, why it's not profitable?
It's a well known fact that it isn't necessarily the best products that get the most buyers. It's the products that get the best marketing that does.

05-24-2013, 01:58 AM   #1629
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I already proved that statement to be unfounded, see above.
05-24-2013, 02:21 AM   #1630
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QuoteOriginally posted by deus ursus Quote
It's a well known fact that it isn't necessarily the best products that get the most buyers. It's the products that get the best marketing that does.
The K-30 seems to be very popular in Japan, it's now on place 5 on the kakaku ranking:
http://kakaku.com/camera/digital-slr-camera/ranking_0049/

- and that's just the 18-135 combo! The double zoom kit also does well, as do Q10 kits and the K-5 IIs body.

(For some reason, they're much less visible in the BCN ranking - different sampling methods, I guess)
05-24-2013, 03:34 AM   #1631
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Go to Ricoh web-site, download Financial Results and you will see
Financial Results / Investor Relations / About Ricoh | Ricoh Global
Thanks for the PDF. It tells nothing about the K-30 but seems to demand further clarification.

Can somebody please verify?

The document details that domestic sales is 84% of total sales in the OTHER category which includes digital cameras. However, we all know that domestic sales of Pentax cameras is only about 30%. So, that figure clearly is dominated by non-Pentax products.

Moreover, Ricoh totally lost its market in the rest of Asia in this segment (-68%, OTHER category, Overseas/Other) while doing well at home (+2%). Clearly not Pentax.


On the other hand, the total amount of sales (370 M$ Q1, translating into 1.5 B$ p.a.) fits well with the assumption it is the camera business only (3% of the 40 million unit dSLR market at $500 each is 600 M$ or about 40% that figure; add P&S and Ricoh and the number looks right).


But that would mean that Pentax has already lost most of its market overseas and has now additionally lost its market in the rest of Asia.


This is all too incoherent to draw a real conclusion from.

My conclusion:

Since the aquisition of Pentax by Ricoh, we don't have any way anymore to get hold of Pentax business data by looking into investment documentation.

Last edited by falconeye; 05-24-2013 at 03:45 AM.
05-24-2013, 03:41 AM   #1632
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
The K-30 seems to be very popular in Japan, it's now on place 5 on the kakaku ranking:
http://kakaku.com/camera/digital-slr-camera/ranking_0049/

- and that's just the 18-135 combo! The double zoom kit also does well, as do Q10 kits and the K-5 IIs body.

(For some reason, they're much less visible in the BCN ranking - different sampling methods, I guess)
Don't know japaneese but the listing is very interesting:
1. mirrorless
2. aps-c dslr
3. FF dslr
4. FF dslr
5. aps-c dslr
6. mirrorless
7. FF dslr
8. FF dslr
9. FF dslr
10. mirrorless

Last edited by Supernaut; 05-24-2013 at 06:07 AM.
05-24-2013, 03:43 AM   #1633
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Get the whole picture

Much of what I have read in this thread today is speculative and not very meaningful.

If a company producing camera equipment (for example Ricoh Pentax) is experiencing a slight decline in sales. Does that mean that the company is doomed? Of course not, you have to look at the whole picture.

It has to be compared to the market segment in which they operate. Are sales of competing brands experiencing the same trend? If the competing brands are experiencing the same trend or even worse. Does that mean that Ricoh Pentax is doomed, even though they are doing equally bad or "better" than their competition?

Ricoh Pentax acquisition.

Mergers and acquisitions are particularly alluring to companies when times are tough. Strong companies will act to buy other companies to create a more competitive, costefficient company. The companies will come together hoping to gain a greater market share or to achieve greater efficiency. Because of these potential benefits, target companies will often agree to be purchased when they know they cannot survive alone.

There is very important aspect to remember in any merger or acquisition, you will not see the benefits overnight.

It will take time.
05-24-2013, 03:58 AM   #1634
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
There is additional financial report of previous year before K-5II launch. And we can see K-30 there. I have no time to find now.
I've already shown this info here. In this forum.
When I will have time, I will find and show again.

There is something drastically wrong about this chart. It's dated 31 July 2012, the same month the K-30 went on sale.
05-24-2013, 04:14 AM   #1635
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm waiting for data specifically showing that the K-30 is "trading at a loss", or at least that it was. Until then, as I said, I'll assume the statement to be false.
No offense, but it seems you have a tendency to show random pieces of generic data when specific evidence is requested.
It seems to me again....
Do you really work for Pentax or you are simply fan of brand? Honest answer - can you?

English is not my native language, I could be wrong in using any words in wrong way...
The sales of camera became higher, but the loss is higher too...It means there is no real profit. We see it from the figures
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