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05-24-2013, 11:05 PM   #1696
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
C'mon, in video features alone Nikon is a better camera. AF in normal light, tracking, continuous focus, Nikon is far better. 24MP is also better to fight Moire and deliver more detail overall. Etc. I would personally love to have a 24MP camera from Pentax, because I want details, I need more information for cropping.

DigitalRev guys were very considerate, and didn't go in too many details that may show K5-II is actually old tech in some important matters.

And yes, Pentax needs to change the name of its focusing system in the next revamp; SAFOX name is ridiculous and is too old anyway.
The D7100 has some advantages, but those advantages are not large enough for Pentax to bring a new camera to market. Pentax will bring 24MP to the market and when they do, it will be better than the D7100.

I would love to see a 24MP APS-C Pentax as well, but I want more than an incremental improvement over the K-5IIs or the D7100.

05-24-2013, 11:09 PM   #1697
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The D7100 has some advantages, but those advantages are not large enough for Pentax to bring a new camera to market. Pentax will bring 24MP to the market and when they do, it will be better than the D7100.

I would love to see a 24MP APS-C Pentax as well, but I want more than an incremental improvement over the K-5IIs or the D7100.
So, they are waiting for 7D II as you say, or the mythical D400?
05-24-2013, 11:36 PM   #1698
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
But the D7100 is really not any better than the K-5IIs. The D7100 is not what Pentax is concerned with... or at least I hope not.

Nikon D7100 vs Pentax K-5 II S - YouTube

I don't think Pentax wants to release another APS-C high spec camera until Canon releases the 7DII.
The Pentaxian from our club who switched to D7100 says that D7100 is better than K-5II.
As for 7DII - don't be funny...Do you really think that K-5 competes with Canon 7D? Do you really think that Pentax cameras competes with Canon cameras?
05-24-2013, 11:39 PM   #1699
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
So, they are waiting for 7D II as you say, or the mythical D400?
The D7100 uses a Toshiba sensor and Pentax might not have access to it. The Sony 24MP is not quite as good. Pentax maybe waiting on Sony to provide a better sensor. The NEX-7 Sensor is not enough of an improvement to justify the implementation. The Samsung 20 and the Sony 20MP are both below expectations.

Pentax may have introduced the K-5II with new AF and left the sensor alone because it was the best option at that time.

I do think Pentax is waiting on the 7DII. That is their target. Nikon might be holding out as well. The professional APS-C is not dead. Canon will hit 21MP, but they seem to be lagging when it comes to sensor technology. I think both Canon and Nikon want to see if the 6D and the D600 pull more business away from their other more expensive FF bodies, or do they generate more move up sales as APS-C shooter take the plunge in to FF. If Canon and Nikon are not getting enough move-up buyers, and the 6D & D600 are simply cannibalizing sales from the 5D and D800 lines then the 6D and D600 won't be in production long. Until this sales data comes back I don't think Canon moves with a 7D replacement.

05-24-2013, 11:40 PM   #1700
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Well, one thing we do know — the Ricoh's own "my prrrrecioooous GR" was released soon after the Coolpix A, and judging by all reviews and impressions from the net, it seems to me they have hurried up. Many tiny things could still be polished up in GR but they didn't want to fall too far behind the wake of the Coolpix A.
By the way, Coolpix A is not worse than GR, and it has some advantages over GR. DXO rank of Coolpix A is a bit higher too.
05-24-2013, 11:42 PM   #1701
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Who is the ruler of Pentax marketing?
I suggest nobody. Pentax has convinced Ricoh that marketing is an American invention, not suitable for Japanese companies .
05-24-2013, 11:43 PM   #1702
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The Pentaxian from our club who switched to D7100 says that D7100 is better than K-5II.
As for 7DII - don't be funny...Do you really think that K-5 competes with Canon 7D? Do you really think that Pentax cameras competes with Canon cameras?
As a long-time Canon users... yes. The K-5 is produces better files than my 5D, which I used for years. Is the AF as fast or as snappy? NO. But the RAW files of the K-5 blow any APS-C Canon out of the water.... and it is not even close. Ultimately it is the IQ that I am concerned with. I like the 7D. AF is great, but it does not match the IQ for RAW files.
05-24-2013, 11:48 PM   #1703
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Hah, almost .. but Leica's marketing beats both Pentax and Ricoh to dust.
Leica is totally marketing aware company. They do give a damn about the brand perception a lot. They are announcing a new camera category, in between the X2 and the M-type. Whatever it is, it is exactly what users wanted for some time. To close the gap between two extremes.

And Leica made it. They are small, in fact microscopic in manpower compared to Ricoh, but hey! Leica even has its stores around world, in major cities! Their marketing brain just works; give people an excuse to go and try the camera, not an excuse to buy something else instead, like Pentax does.

It's that simple. In the meantime, Pentax's best marketing since Pentax Ricoh merger is a video by Kai and Lok, of the DigitalRev, and one posted by Heie in the middle of Afghanistan. Those two videos will be most viewed videos with anything Pentax related.
Storm of applause. I like your train of thought

05-25-2013, 12:00 AM   #1704
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
As a long-time Canon users... yes. The K-5 is produces better files than my 5D, which I used for years. Is the AF as fast or as snappy? NO. But the RAW files of the K-5 blow any APS-C Canon out of the water.... and it is not even close. Ultimately it is the IQ that I am concerned with. I like the 7D. AF is great, but it does not match the IQ for RAW files.
I say about other things.... If even K-5II is better in IQ than Canon cameras, it means nothing. K-5II is not the competitor to Canon or Nikon camera on the market.
05-25-2013, 12:05 AM   #1705
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I say about other things.... If even K-5II is better in IQ than Canon cameras, it means nothing. K-5II is not the competitor to Canon or Nikon camera on the market.
No, but that is a matter of marketing and investing the resources. Which Pentax has never done..... or at least not in the last 20 years. There was a point in time when the Pentax 67II was a common camera to top fashion and fine are photographers. Pentax has been a workhorse for professionals in the past and it can do it again. It is a matter of good leadership and people willing to take some risks.

And my comment was that Canon was their target, not that they were equals.
05-25-2013, 12:24 AM   #1706
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
By the way, Coolpix A is not worse than GR, and it has some advantages over GR. DXO rank of Coolpix A is a bit higher too.
The difference is negligible and not visible in output, as DXO states in text.
However, it doesn't strike me as the best job in Pentax dept.
I think the GR was rushed through the gate by Ricoh. To me, it does not look like a 100% market ready camera. They needed at least 2-3 months of fine tuning but I believe they did not want to fall too far behind the Coolpix A and let Nikon define that market niche. Releasing it now, and lowering the price to alleviate for small glitches and attract immediate attention, I believe was a calculated risk.

Last edited by Uluru; 05-25-2013 at 01:12 AM.
05-25-2013, 12:26 AM   #1707
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The D7100 has some advantages, but those advantages are not large enough for Pentax to bring a new camera to market. Pentax will bring 24MP to the market and when they do, it will be better than the D7100.
Nikon and Pentax is overlapping each other with release. Of course the next Pentax will be better than D7100 (except AF maybe :P) But by then, Nikon will have the D7200 on the way...

Whichever... Think DigitalRev's comparison is fair, and the sarcastic/ironic humor about Pentax as a brand was just right and punchy. In the end Kai sums it up well, even admitting his own (and every ones) brand loyalty as a barrier.
05-25-2013, 01:18 AM   #1708
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
I must have missed it but I don't see where "Other" is claimed to be nothing but the camera business. If it includes something else (it must otherwise it wouldn't be called Other) which is Japan-only then the regional splits for the camera business may be quite different.
I've taken this from the footnote on page A2 of the report which is repeated on page A3 and which is headed "Each category includes the following product line:" Under "Other" in there it simply says "Digital cameras". The remaining categories don't appear to be connected with the camera biz, being things like copiers, printers, PCs, industrial equipment, etc. OTOH, Pentax also sells binos and scopes which are not digital cameras, though this wouldn't on its own invalidate the camera splits.
05-25-2013, 05:36 AM   #1709
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I've taken this from the footnote on page A2 of the report which is repeated on page A3 and which is headed "Each category includes the following product line:" Under "Other" in there it simply says "Digital cameras". The remaining categories don't appear to be connected with the camera biz, being things like copiers, printers, PCs, industrial equipment, etc. OTOH, Pentax also sells binos and scopes which are not digital cameras, though this wouldn't on its own invalidate the camera splits.
May I suggest you to have a look at page 13 of the report you quoted, at the bottom of the page under <Other> ?
05-25-2013, 07:16 AM   #1710
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I've taken this from the footnote on page A2 of the report which is repeated on page A3 and which is headed "Each category includes the following product line:" Under "Other" in there it simply says "Digital cameras". The remaining categories don't appear to be connected with the camera biz, being things like copiers, printers, PCs, industrial equipment, etc. OTOH, Pentax also sells binos and scopes which are not digital cameras, though this wouldn't on its own invalidate the camera splits.
Two findings:
1) As Mistral75 just pointed out, "Other" also includes Ricoh Leasing and Ricoh Logistics Systems
2) Perhaps more important, it seems some of the Ricoh and Pentax cameras are part of Imaging Solutions. If you look at the business chart (more like a bowl of spaghetti) on Page 14, you'll see Imaging Solutions includes an entity called Ricoh Americas. Google that and you come to Copiers, Printers, Multifunctional Color Copiers, Color Printers, Production Printing, Management Document Services, IT Services | Ricoh USA . Look through their website and you find three of the cameras listed as products of that business including. low and behold, the Pentax WG-2.

I don't know how firmly each of these products fits into any of these business categories which is why taking any of this published information with a grain of salt is probably a good idea.
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