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05-27-2013, 09:41 AM   #1741
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The question is: How much of the difference in performance is due to the image processor?

Even when using the same sensor we see noticeably different results between Nikon, Sony, & Pentax.
Did Sony ever use the K-5's sensor in a DSLR? I am only familiar with their 'SLT' cameras having the sensor.

The differences between the Nikon and the Pentax applications were within the measurement error of DxOMark IIRC. They'd have to do the tests repeatedly to ensure there was an actual difference; and they'd probably want to do so on a few different cameras... it was pretty durn close IIRC.

05-27-2013, 09:56 AM   #1742
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Did Sony ever use the K-5's sensor in a DSLR? I am only familiar with their 'SLT' cameras having the sensor.

The differences between the Nikon and the Pentax applications were within the measurement error of DxOMark IIRC. They'd have to do the tests repeatedly to ensure there was an actual difference; and they'd probably want to do so on a few different cameras... it was pretty durn close IIRC.
Only Sony Alpha DSLR-A580

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-came.../(brand2)/Sony

very close
05-27-2013, 10:18 AM   #1743
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Did Sony ever use the K-5's sensor in a DSLR? I am only familiar with their 'SLT' cameras having the sensor.

The differences between the Nikon and the Pentax applications were within the measurement error of DxOMark IIRC. They'd have to do the tests repeatedly to ensure there was an actual difference; and they'd probably want to do so on a few different cameras... it was pretty durn close IIRC.
They used it in the NEX which does not have the mirror in the way. Or they used a sensor like it. There are several versions of that sensor being used. The K-30 does not have the same sensor as the K-5 or K-5II according to Pentax.
05-28-2013, 06:21 AM   #1744
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Three Full Frame mirrorless from Sony to come in 2014! | Mirrorless Rumors

Sony is planing a real massive attack on the Full Frame mirrorless front. According to trusted sources Sony could launch two new A-mount and one new E-mount Full Frame cameras in 2014. Little is known about the cameras. They will feature a new generation 30+ Megapixel sensor and new advanced on sensor phase detection autofocus. The first camera to be announced will be one of the A-mount FF in early 2014. The other two could be announced at Photokina in September (2014!).

Sony is betting big on Mirrorless. This may be the one chance for them to finally grab some more significant market share in the Canonikan dominated High End FF market.


What are the odds this is the direction goes with the K-3?

05-28-2013, 07:43 AM   #1745
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
What are the odds this is the direction goes with the K-3?
Pentax users are conservative and I think they know it. Besides, a EVF is easier to make if you are an electronics company like Sony.
I'd love to see a interchangeable viewfinder though, OVF and EVF to please all crowds. But I certainly don't hold my breath
05-28-2013, 07:54 AM   #1746
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Three Full Frame mirrorless from Sony to come in 2014! | Mirrorless Rumors

Sony is planing a real massive attack on the Full Frame mirrorless front. According to trusted sources Sony could launch two new A-mount and one new E-mount Full Frame cameras in 2014. Little is known about the cameras. They will feature a new generation 30+ Megapixel sensor and new advanced on sensor phase detection autofocus. The first camera to be announced will be one of the A-mount FF in early 2014. The other two could be announced at Photokina in September (2014!).

Sony is betting big on Mirrorless. This may be the one chance for them to finally grab some more significant market share in the Canonikan dominated High End FF market.


What are the odds this is the direction goes with the K-3?
Sony is bleeding...massively:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/28/business/global/sonys-bread-and-butter-its...D1296F03FDCA1A

Every high-end user I know (2 full time pros, so a small sample) uses an OVF.

I do look forward to vastly improve PDAF, though.
05-28-2013, 08:32 AM   #1747
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Every high-end user I know (2 full time pros, so a small sample) uses an OVF.
FWIW, I spent yesterday at a large holiday gathering of families with children and grand-children. I watched at least a dozen people take pictures using the LCD on a dSLR that had an OVF. Whenever I could I peeked at the brand - almost always Canon.

I mean, really? You hold a dSLR with a zoom lens at arms' length?

At least they thought the Q was worth 30 seconds of Wow! - right up until they saw Pentax.
05-28-2013, 08:36 AM   #1748
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I also saw a lady holding her 650D with LCD up and using the viewfinder.... And what kind of reactions, once Pentax read ?


Last edited by Zygonyx; 05-28-2013 at 08:42 AM.
05-28-2013, 08:49 AM   #1749
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
And what kind of reactions, once Pentax read ?
Range from, "I didn't know they still made cameras," to "Sell that. They won't be making cameras in a year and it'l be worthless." Even, "I don't care if you can take the lens off and put a different one on, that isn't an Interchangeable Lens Camera. Its too small."

I just love extended family. And I really don't care what they think. I just smiled and said, "Well that xD is/was the hot camera these days / way back when."

Last edited by monochrome; 05-28-2013 at 08:55 AM.
05-28-2013, 09:31 AM   #1750
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
right up until they saw Pentax.
Prejudice!
05-28-2013, 10:27 AM   #1751
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
What are the odds this is the direction goes with the K-3?
The K-3 will likely be an APS-C DSLR. It will also likely be a kind of dry run for the Pentax FF DSLR.

I think it's unlikley that a Sony mirrorless FF will prove a challenge to Canikon FF. Right now, mirrorless only makes sense for compact systems; and a compact FF system would not be able to compete with the Canikon FF zoom lenses becauses the mirrorless cameras would be too small to balance large FF zooms. A compact FF mirrorless system is niche product which a photographer-centric company like Fuji (as opposed to engineer-centric company like Sony) might be able to pull off. It's not a product that would constitute a serious threat to Canikon.
05-28-2013, 10:29 AM   #1752
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Range from, "I didn't know they still made cameras," to "Sell that. They won't be making cameras in a year and it'l be worthless."
Brand prejudice seems to be inversely proportional to the actual expertise of the person. Those with cheap entry level Canikon often make a point of telling everyone in sight how great 'their' brand is.

I had the opportunity a few weeks ago to shoot with some folks, and of course I was the only Pentax there. Canon 5d MkII's and several D800's so I was a little apprehensive about getting some flak about Pentax and my little k-5. But the only comment was "what made you decide on Pentax?" When I explained why they just said "'cool' lets keep shooting". Real pro's are more concerned about the results than the gear used.
05-28-2013, 12:14 PM   #1753
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
The K-3 will likely be an APS-C DSLR. It will also likely be a kind of dry run for the Pentax FF DSLR.

I think it's unlikley that a Sony mirrorless FF will prove a challenge to Canikon FF. Right now, mirrorless only makes sense for compact systems; and a compact FF system would not be able to compete with the Canikon FF zoom lenses becauses the mirrorless cameras would be too small to balance large FF zooms. A compact FF mirrorless system is niche product which a photographer-centric company like Fuji (as opposed to engineer-centric company like Sony) might be able to pull off. It's not a product that would constitute a serious threat to Canikon.
I agree the K-3 could be a FF dry run for Pentax. Good observation.

If you want to see the Sony attempt look at the RX-1 with EVF:



There is no attempt so far by Sony or any camera maker to drive down the FF sensor to commodity levels like what happened with APS-C. Either it's just too costly to do so, or the bulk of the cameras + lens makes it awkward for the price. As sensor size goes up, lens size goes up. This is one area where I give Pentax kudos with the DA primes and a smaller than Canikon body size.

Sony is consumer-centric, all about trying to recapture that mass appeal from the Walkman era:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/28/business/global/sonys-bread-and-butter-its...D1296F03FDCA1A
05-28-2013, 12:23 PM   #1754
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Brand prejudice seems to be inversely proportional to the actual expertise of the person. Those with cheap entry level Canikon often make a point of telling everyone in sight how great 'their' brand is.

I had the opportunity a few weeks ago to shoot with some folks, and of course I was the only Pentax there. Canon 5d MkII's and several D800's so I was a little apprehensive about getting some flak about Pentax and my little k-5. But the only comment was "what made you decide on Pentax?" When I explained why they just said "'cool' lets keep shooting". Real pro's are more concerned about the results than the gear used.
Very true.
Unfortunately the mass-market is "driven" by the first kind of "panurge's followees"
05-28-2013, 04:02 PM   #1755
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
What are the odds this is the direction goes with the K-3?
Zero. Sony can't sell DSLR's. Mirrorless is their only option. Likely they will flop too....
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