Originally posted by johnmflores Falk, you've been a valuable contributor to this forum for as long as I can remember. I don't visit as often as i used to, but I hope that you don't leave entirely.
I also appreciate Falk's contribution on this forum, his knowledge and experience and I hope he will keep posting.
Originally posted by falconeye So maybe, all of us must calm down a bit
Below, I explain the rationale behind calling equivalence "beautiful". There is no reason anybody must share my opinion, but maybe I should explain at least.
I do agree entirely.
And now about beauty in science.
I am interested in photography, science and women because I find beauty in all of them. It may be less obvious for science.
I give you one example:
When Dirac in 1928 looked at his equations, he noticed that things are more symmetrical (read beautiful) if he gave ALL possible mathematical solutions a physical meaning. Which led him to predict anti matter. Which actually exists as has been verified years later.
Group theory in mathematics would be another example.
It is a surprising attitude of nature that, if its laws can be made more beautiful, it obeys.
An extremely simple yet very known example is F-Stop, the ratio of aperture and focal length. Because it turns out that a correct exposure (for a given sensitivity of an emulsion) only depends on this ratio, not both focal length and aperture diameter. Which is a simplification and makes the "laws" of photography more beautiful. Nobody today would complain that fstop isn't a lens' real aperture (which is to be measured in mm or inch, like it still is for scopes).
A more recent example now is equivalence. Just like fstop replaces aperture by the ratio of aperture and focal, equivalence replaces image circle, focal, fstop and iso by scaled values, aka "equivalent" focal, fstop and iso. Because it turns out (somewhat hard to prove why I wrote a paper about) that ALL image properties only depend on "equivalent" focal, fstop, iso (and exposure time). And not on sensor size or real focal, fstop, iso. This is a massive simplification of the "laws" of photography. A much bigger break-through than fstop was. And makes the "laws" of photography a lot more beautiful. Something to write home about.
Therefore, somebody saying "equivalence destroys real fstop" is making the biggest joke he can actually make
That's my personal opinion.
Which may explain why I am so passionate about it.
Maybe I should explain myself as well, at least partially? (I must admit I'm not very confident in my writing)
Why do I think it's ugly? There are several reasons for that:
- it messes with basic definition, e.g. the focal length is clearly defined, as one the most basics optics notion. It's also expressed in meters, which as we know is a standard measuring units. Trying to change it in the name of "equivalence" is, IMO, a big no-no and (I know you disagree) unscientific.
We can use equivalence by being very careful what we claim, e.g. "lens X on format Y has the same angle of view as lens Z on format W".
- it solves no problem. Really. We don't need to know what's the angle of view and DOF on a foreign format, but on the one we're using; and for this, the old ways simply works.
- it introduces new problems. If we use the "equivalent"(BS) focal length and "equivalent" (BS) aperture, oops, the exposure equation fails. Then, we have to also compute an "equivalent" sensitivity (bye-bye, ISO 5800:1987); and this is only the beginning. You say we're removing the sensor size from the equation, but on the contrary: we're putting it everywhere, even where we shouldn't (bye-bye, optics).
And then, we'll have lenses that can be relabelled, and lenses which cannot (those usable on several formats). And lenses which aren't, extension tubes... what a mess!
- it's a concept which cannot function when the lens is unmounted. How can we claim the lens doesn't have a focal length if it's not mounted on a camera?
- it's incomplete. The format is nothing but a crop from the lens' image circle; but we are often cropping in post. Equivalence is completely ignoring this.
- I saw its ugly face, over and over again; people thinking that a 50mm has a different focal length than another 50mm, people thinking the focal length actually changes etc.
I will say again, this shouldn't be compared with the f-stop which is indeed an elegant simplification; the equivalence thing complicates things.