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08-10-2013, 11:17 PM   #2416
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
To me, the interesting change about watches is how the smartphone has reduced the wearing of watches altogether by those under about age 30.
I still wear mine - my luminox watches don't need to be recharged like a smartphone does, also the illumination of the watch face isn't detrimental to your night vision like the invariably bright screens on smartphones. I like watches, which puts me in a bit of a minority..but I couldn't care less.

08-11-2013, 12:12 AM   #2417
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QuoteOriginally posted by pento57mm Quote
It is very very sweet and not being named K-3 ! One should be looking forward to this late fall leaves Ffalling. Read between the lines somewhere. K-mount BTW.
Finally some actual K-3 speculation. More details pls. Give us what you've got.
08-11-2013, 02:39 AM   #2418
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
To me, the interesting change about watches is how the smartphone has reduced the wearing of watches altogether by those under about age 30.
Under 30? I'm close to 50 and stopped wearing a watch the day I got the first cell phone with a clock. Around 1995 or so. And I don't think I know that many people my age who wear watches.
08-11-2013, 02:55 AM   #2419
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Under 30? I'm close to 50 and stopped wearing a watch the day I got the first cell phone with a clock. Around 1995 or so. And I don't think I know that many people my age who wear watches.
In my case I stopped wearing watches because the wristband usually causes uncomfortable typing on my PCs keyboard. So there's not necessarily a connection with mobile phone usage.

08-11-2013, 03:04 AM   #2420
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I wear a watch for the second hand, as I work in the medical profession -- handy for counting pulse rates, etc. A smart phone (or even a digital wrist watch) can't do that.

I guess Apple is looking at smart wrist watches in the future, though? Sounds like Dick Tracy to me.
08-11-2013, 03:07 AM   #2421
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Sony launched its second version of their SmartWatch. It's a multi-function device which, apparently, also shows the time.
By the way, there are smartphone apps which measures pulse rates - you'd just have to put your finger over the camera.

Last edited by Kunzite; 08-11-2013 at 03:13 AM.
08-11-2013, 03:37 AM   #2422
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The question really isn't if the cat can be in a superimposed state but if the human conscious mind can be.
Well, I'm with Schrödinger here (as opposed to Wigner).

Somewhere superimposition stops and I feel it is much more likely that it is an issue of scale/complexity (macroscopic vs quantum-scale) rather than "unconcious vs concious").

The cat will be dead at some point, whether Wigner or his friend know (observe) it or not. Questioning this, is not helpful, AFAIC.

Or is it impossible for drunk people to (really) die alone, because they are not concious enough to observe their own death?

Anyhow, we probably won't solve the problem in this thread.
08-11-2013, 04:08 AM   #2423
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
To the user, the utility of knowing the time by viewing the position of the hands on the face has become intuitive. Reading the digits is cognitive. Intuitive is faster and more comfortable.

To me, the interesting change about watches is how the smartphone has reduced the wearing of watches altogether by those under about age 30.
Yes, the analog nature of a watch is more intuitive for us. Watch makers came out with non-mechanical analog watches which displayed the hands. Basically they were a flop so there's an example for Barry where electronics were rejected in a traditionally mechanical application.

08-11-2013, 05:45 AM   #2424
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Yes, the analog nature of a watch is more intuitive for us. Watch makers came out with non-mechanical analog watches which displayed the hands. Basically they were a flop so there's an example for Barry where electronics were rejected in a traditionally mechanical application.
And glass cockpits on planes are (mission critical) examples where both analogue and digital readouts are provided electronically, not mechanically.
08-11-2013, 05:58 AM   #2425
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Glass cockpits... aren't those some sort of optical viewfinders?
08-11-2013, 06:03 AM   #2426
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
And glass cockpits on planes are (mission critical) examples where both analogue and digital readouts are provided electronically, not mechanically.
How many backup systems are in place in cockpits? Each implementation of each technology is assessed through associated risk that goes with it. You wearing a watch for the film premiere, taking a snapshot of a cat by looking through the EVF of a camera, and an intercontinental passenger airplane, are three different systems, with totally different risk matrices.
08-11-2013, 07:18 AM   #2427
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Wow. K-mount FF to EVF to Godwin's Law to wristwatches to head-up displays in 4 pages.

The Tamron Adaptall-2 52B 90/2.5 Macro has the most impressive "snap" into focus I've ever seen. Through a matte/ring prism analog viewfinder, too.
08-11-2013, 07:22 AM   #2428
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
And glass cockpits on planes are (mission critical) examples where both analogue and digital readouts are provided electronically, not mechanically.
Are you suggesting that electronics can replace mechanical systems in many cases? Yeah, we got that. That doesn't mean people will choose an electronic alternative in every case.
08-11-2013, 08:15 AM   #2429
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Are you suggesting that electronics can replace mechanical systems in many cases? Yeah, we got that. That doesn't mean people will choose an electronic alternative in every case.
True. For example, some people still prefer film to digital cameras, or use both. I recently put a battery in my Pentax Z1-p and ran some film through it with my DA and DA* lenses on to see how they behaved at 36mm x 24mm, and there was some satisfaction with the noise it made! (It is now back in storage).

There are various viewpoints here. Individual photographers vary in their views about EVFs; so do camera manufacturers. Some serious photographers want to have nothing to do with EVFs, however they develop. Others have switched already. I am pretty committed to the K-mount for my main photography, so I am limited by what Pentax have. I expect my next camera to have an OVF. But if Pentax brought out the right EVF camera in future, (and I expect them to, sooner or later), I would consider it, and if I saw advantages in some circumstances I would buy it. It might become my main camera, or an alternative camera for particular shoots, chosen for its benefits for that type of photography.

Obviously the manufacturers who will have the most impact are Canon and Nikon. If they introduce top-end professional-grade EVF-cameras, that will impact Pentax and the rest. I suspect one or both will do so in the next 5 years. I can't predict what they will do, or when, of course. Are they building up their expertise and technology ready for a "pre-emptive strike"? Or do they intend to hold back, but be ready to retaliate in case the other does? I'm sure they won't change their entire product line in the same year! If/when they do change, there will surely be years of parallel products, during which the whole industry will be watching and analysing.

Put 11 August 2018 in your diary - you can have a laugh at my expense if neither Canon not Nikon have made that move by then!
08-11-2013, 09:41 AM   #2430
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
And glass cockpits on planes are (mission critical) examples where both analogue and digital readouts are provided electronically, not mechanically.
I find this example to not be completely analogous to the discussion of OVF vs EVF. Glass cockpits only deal with the data display. Having ONLY EVFs on cameras would be more akin to replacing all optically transparent viewports in aircraft (front windows for passenger planes or canopies for fighters) with monitor displays. There's a reason that every manned aircraft still allows the pilot to see the environment directly.

Advantages of EVFs are being able to see video as it's shot and magnify live view. The disadvantages are render lag and power draw. The disadvantages can NEVER be eliminated due to physics. Can they be mitigated to acceptable levels via engineering? Maybe. A quick calculation of electron/photon transport speed over copper/optical medium times bandwidth vs the human eye's temporal resolution limits can probably answer that question; I'm too lazy right now. But the main thing is: ALL cameras now already have an EVF (just put a black-felt lined cardboard tube over the LCD). The removal of an optical path is not adding any functionality; it's only taking options away from the user.

Perhaps in the future every camera will also be wi-fi enabled, with boot-up controlled remotely depending on whether or not you've paid for the month's subscription to "your" camera. Also, scene recognition software can then detect whether the camera has captured any "inappropriate" content, and prevent said image from being written to the card.
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