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09-15-2013, 11:39 PM   #2566
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It would not be targeting existing 645 users. Pentax only has 1.5% market share. If they want to grow they need to produce products that will attract new users, not appease the 1.5% who already buy.
Pentax only has 1.5% from the digital medium format market? Where did you get that number, because I think it includes compacts?


Last edited by Kunzite; 09-16-2013 at 12:05 AM.
09-16-2013, 12:12 AM - 1 Like   #2567
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It would not be targeting existing 645 users. Pentax only has 1.5% market share. If they want to grow they need to produce products that will attract new users, not appease the 1.5% who already buy.

New mount and new MF mirrorless body that will appeal to new users who wish to move up to MF. MF doesn't need dozens of lenses. I have 5 for my Contax 645 and I only really use 2 of them with the 80mm being by far the most used. I picked up several once people started dumping Contax gear, and now it has gone back up in value as there has been a revival of MF film among wedding togs.

Half of the camera size is the mirror-box and the huge OVF. Pentax could produce a mirrorless MF that would be the size of a normal DSLR.
And a relatively straightforward adaptor would enable the use of 645 lenses assuming a mirrorless 645 had the same mount width.
09-16-2013, 09:29 AM   #2568
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Pentax only has 1.5% from the digital medium format market? Where did you get that number, because I think it includes compacts?
That is total market share, not just MF.
09-16-2013, 09:40 AM   #2569
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Thanks, you got me scared for a while
But then, the 1.5% is not relevant, since it's about the other end of the camera market - the cheap compact users.

09-16-2013, 10:43 AM   #2570
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Thanks, you got me scared for a while
But then, the 1.5% is not relevant, since it's about the other end of the camera market - the cheap compact users.
Pentax is the world's tenth largest digital camera brand by shipments, with just 1.5 percent of the market, according to research firm IDC.
09-16-2013, 10:44 AM   #2571
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
That is total market share, not just MF.
Can't be. The global interchangeable lens camera market was higher than 20 million units in 2012 (of which 16 million DSLRs), the MF market amounts to a few thousand units.
09-16-2013, 10:47 AM   #2572
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Can't be. The global interchangeable lens camera market was higher than 20 million units in 2012 (of which 16 million DSLRs), the MF market amounts to a few thousand units.
Tell these people: IDC Home: The premier global market intelligence firm.

I'm using their numbers. If you have another source I would be interested to see the numbers.
09-16-2013, 11:10 AM   #2573
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Pentax is the world's tenth largest digital camera brand by shipments, with just 1.5 percent of the market, according to research firm IDC.
I'm not arguing about that number, what I'm saying is that it's irrelevant in this context.
We were talking about the digital medium format market, which is very niche, very low volume; even if Pentax had a monopoly over it, they would still be at 1.5% of the entire camera market.

09-16-2013, 11:37 AM   #2574
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Pentax is the world's tenth largest digital camera brand by shipments, with just 1.5 percent of the market, according to research firm IDC.
In order to make this datum relevant to Pentax, please define the term digital cameras.

ILC only, or including fixed lens cameras? Compacts only or companies that also make m4/3 but no ILC's

For instance, is Casio larger or smaller by shipments than Pentax? How about Panasonic, Samsung or Sigma?
09-16-2013, 12:04 PM   #2575
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Tell these people: IDC Home: The premier global market intelligence firm.

I'm using their numbers. If you have another source I would be interested to see the numbers.
This time I understand. This hasn't anything to do with medium format cameras. They say that Pentax has 1.5 per cent. of the total digital camera market (cameras with built-in lens + interchangeable lens cameras).

Japanese manufacturers shipped 98 million digital cameras in 2012, of which 20 million interchangeable lens cameras.

Source : CIPA http://www.cipa.jp/english/data/pdf/d_2012_e.pdf

Pentax having a 4 to 5 per cent. share in the latter, i.e. selling 800,000 to 1 million interchangeable lens cameras, would have to have sold 450,000 to 650,000 cameras with built-in lens in 2012 to reach the 1.5 per cent. total market share. This is plausible.
09-16-2013, 12:54 PM   #2576
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
This time I understand. This hasn't anything to do with medium format cameras. They say that Pentax has 1.5 per cent. of the total digital camera market (cameras with built-in lens + interchangeable lens cameras).

Japanese manufacturers shipped 98 million digital cameras in 2012, of which 20 million interchangeable lens cameras.

Source : CIPA http://www.cipa.jp/english/data/pdf/d_2012_e.pdf

Pentax having a 4 to 5 per cent. share in the latter, i.e. selling 800,000 to 1 million interchangeable lens cameras, would have to have sold 450,000 to 650,000 cameras with built-in lens in 2012 to reach the 1.5 per cent. total market share. This is plausible.
For Pentax the relevant information from this exhange pertains to ILC's. Compacts are meaningless. In order to return to a 10% share in ILC's over the next five years, Pentax will need to grow its shipments 15% / year, compounded, relative to the rest of the ILC market.
09-16-2013, 05:17 PM   #2577
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It would not be targeting existing 645 users. Pentax only has 1.5% market share. If they want to grow they need to produce products that will attract new users, not appease the 1.5% who already buy.
Prices on MF sensors, cameras, lenses would have go down quite a bit for this to be a viable strategy. Moreover, Pentax should not be trying to attract new users at the expense of current users. They're too small a company to adopt such an approach.
09-16-2013, 06:16 PM   #2578
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Prices on MF sensors, cameras, lenses would have go down quite a bit for this to be a viable strategy. Moreover, Pentax should not be trying to attract new users at the expense of current users. They're too small a company to adopt such an approach.
I do expect some nice surprise with the 645D. During the last interview, the Pentax system camera development manager was smiling mostly about it, and told they had plenty of ideas for the next 645D. So I expect something unexpected
09-16-2013, 06:36 PM   #2579
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Prices on MF sensors, cameras, lenses would have go down quite a bit for this to be a viable strategy.
Sensor prices have fallen by a considerable about and the current CCD sensors cost more than CMOS. Samsung has made a MF 35mm x 35mm prototype.
Why do lenses have to go down? The latest MF Pentax lens is $5,000.
QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Pentax should not be trying to attract new users at the expense of current users.
Explain to my why someone would leave Pentax because they produced a MF mirrorless camera?
QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
They're too small a company to adopt such an approach.
MF is a niche market that Pentax has a long history of success in. At one point the 6x7II was a common work horse for professionals. If Pentax is too small to compete in the small markets, then they are probably too small to compete in the big market as well.
09-16-2013, 07:11 PM   #2580
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A unique and innovative MF would be one way to claim "pro" status. Pro, after all, is not just sports and wedding photogs. There are plenty of places where an MF would appeal to other types of pros. I'd imagine that a mirrorless MF for $3-4k (plus another $2-3k for a trio of primes) would be very intriguing. Add the possibility of adapting older MF lenses and you've got a Fuji X-Pro style niche.
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