[northcoastgreg]

MF probably has the most to gain from the size reduction and removing the much larger mirror.

Actually, MF has the least to gain, because right now it is a format almost exclusively determined by the lenses, all of which require a large camera. The 645D was introduced for people who already owned MF glass. That's why it could be introduced with so few new lenses, and Pentax could get away with very slow release cycle. In any case, if you introduced a new mirrorless 645D system, most existing 645 users would find it less costly just to move on to that far more versatile system camera, the Nikon D800.

[Winder]

Actually, MF has the least to gain, because right now it is a format almost exclusively determined by the lenses, all of which require a large camera. The 645D was introduced for people who already owned MF glass. That's why it could be introduced with so few new lenses, and Pentax could get away with very slow release cycle. In any case, if you introduced a new mirrorless 645D system, most existing 645 users would find it less costly just to move on to that far more versatile system camera, the Nikon D800.

It would not be targeting existing 645 users. Pentax only has 1.5% market share. If they want to grow they need to produce products that will attract new users, not appease the 1.5% who already buy.

New mount and new MF mirrorless body that will appeal to new users who wish to move up to MF. MF doesn't need dozens of lenses. I have 5 for my Contax 645 and I only really use 2 of them with the 80mm being by far the most used. I picked up several once people started dumping Contax gear, and now it has gone back up in value as there has been a revival of MF film among wedding togs.

Half of the camera size is the mirror-box and the huge OVF. Pentax could produce a mirrorless MF that would be the size of a normal DSLR.

[Kunzite]

It would not be targeting existing 645 users. Pentax only has 1.5% market share. If they want to grow they need to produce products that will attract new users, not appease the 1.5% who already buy.

Pentax only has 1.5% from the digital medium format market? Where did you get that number, because I think it includes compacts?

[Caat]

It would not be targeting existing 645 users. Pentax only has 1.5% market share. If they want to grow they need to produce products that will attract new users, not appease the 1.5% who already buy.

New mount and new MF mirrorless body that will appeal to new users who wish to move up to MF. MF doesn't need dozens of lenses. I have 5 for my Contax 645 and I only really use 2 of them with the 80mm being by far the most used. I picked up several once people started dumping Contax gear, and now it has gone back up in value as there has been a revival of MF film among wedding togs.

Half of the camera size is the mirror-box and the huge OVF. Pentax could produce a mirrorless MF that would be the size of a normal DSLR.

And a relatively straightforward adaptor would enable the use of 645 lenses assuming a mirrorless 645 had the same mount width.

[Winder]

Pentax only has 1.5% from the digital medium format market? Where did you get that number, because I think it includes compacts?

That is total market share, not just MF.

[Kunzite]

Thanks, you got me scared for a while
But then, the 1.5% is not relevant, since it's about the other end of the camera market - the cheap compact users.

[Winder]

Thanks, you got me scared for a while
But then, the 1.5% is not relevant, since it's about the other end of the camera market - the cheap compact users.

Pentax is the world's tenth largest digital camera brand by shipments, with just 1.5 percent of the market, according to research firm IDC.

[Mistral75]

That is total market share, not just MF.

Can't be. The global interchangeable lens camera market was higher than 20 million units in 2012 (of which 16 million DSLRs), the MF market amounts to a few thousand units.

[Winder]

Can't be. The global interchangeable lens camera market was higher than 20 million units in 2012 (of which 16 million DSLRs), the MF market amounts to a few thousand units.

Tell these people: IDC Home: The premier global market intelligence firm.

I'm using their numbers. If you have another source I would be interested to see the numbers.

[Kunzite]

Pentax is the world's tenth largest digital camera brand by shipments, with just 1.5 percent of the market, according to research firm IDC.

I'm not arguing about that number, what I'm saying is that it's irrelevant in this context.
We were talking about the digital medium format market, which is very niche, very low volume; even if Pentax had a monopoly over it, they would still be at 1.5% of the entire camera market.

[monochrome]

Pentax is the world's tenth largest digital camera brand by shipments, with just 1.5 percent of the market, according to research firm IDC.

In order to make this datum relevant to Pentax, please define the term digital cameras.

ILC only, or including fixed lens cameras? Compacts only or companies that also make m4/3 but no ILC's

For instance, is Casio larger or smaller by shipments than Pentax? How about Panasonic, Samsung or Sigma?

[Mistral75]

Tell these people: IDC Home: The premier global market intelligence firm.

I'm using their numbers. If you have another source I would be interested to see the numbers.

This time I understand. This hasn't anything to do with medium format cameras. They say that Pentax has 1.5 per cent. of the total digital camera market (cameras with built-in lens + interchangeable lens cameras).

Japanese manufacturers shipped 98 million digital cameras in 2012, of which 20 million interchangeable lens cameras.

Source : CIPA http://www.cipa.jp/english/data/pdf/d_2012_e.pdf

Pentax having a 4 to 5 per cent. share in the latter, i.e. selling 800,000 to 1 million interchangeable lens cameras, would have to have sold 450,000 to 650,000 cameras with built-in lens in 2012 to reach the 1.5 per cent. total market share. This is plausible.

[monochrome]

This time I understand. This hasn't anything to do with medium format cameras. They say that Pentax has 1.5 per cent. of the total digital camera market (cameras with built-in lens + interchangeable lens cameras).

Japanese manufacturers shipped 98 million digital cameras in 2012, of which 20 million interchangeable lens cameras.

Source : CIPA http://www.cipa.jp/english/data/pdf/d_2012_e.pdf

Pentax having a 4 to 5 per cent. share in the latter, i.e. selling 800,000 to 1 million interchangeable lens cameras, would have to have sold 450,000 to 650,000 cameras with built-in lens in 2012 to reach the 1.5 per cent. total market share. This is plausible.

For Pentax the relevant information from this exhange pertains to ILC's. Compacts are meaningless. In order to return to a 10% share in ILC's over the next five years, Pentax will need to grow its shipments 15% / year, compounded, relative to the rest of the ILC market.

[northcoastgreg]

It would not be targeting existing 645 users. Pentax only has 1.5% market share. If they want to grow they need to produce products that will attract new users, not appease the 1.5% who already buy.

Prices on MF sensors, cameras, lenses would have go down quite a bit for this to be a viable strategy. Moreover, Pentax should not be trying to attract new users at the expense of current users. They're too small a company to adopt such an approach.

[Uluru]

Prices on MF sensors, cameras, lenses would have go down quite a bit for this to be a viable strategy. Moreover, Pentax should not be trying to attract new users at the expense of current users. They're too small a company to adopt such an approach.

I do expect some nice surprise with the 645D. During the last interview, the Pentax system camera development manager was smiling mostly about it, and told they had plenty of ideas for the next 645D. So I expect something unexpected