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09-18-2013, 03:18 PM   #2671
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
I think the substantial majority of their sales are from pre-built machines that are in store inventories plus a very few popular BTO combinations that were pre-built just to have on hand.
For Apple, maybe - but does that extend to Pentax?

The entire and only point of custom colors and eventually expanded BTO is to stimulate sales of K-mounts (they don't really care about cameras, they care about K-mounts) to increase the installed base of mounts (of course the same applies to Q).

The installed base of mounts drives everything - lens sales, accessory sales, third-party lens sales (which add credibility), custmoer identification and retention, B&M support, ad penetration - everything. Colors and BTO drives purchases of a second or third body in a household, impulse gift giving (cameras in school colors - really!!) and can conceivably drive purpose built cameras - and multiple mounts in a household.. If Build-to-Order can be done effectively and cost-efficiently it may well increase the installed base of mounts in the marketplace.

Technology has allowed me to customize my practice while simultaneously allowing me to increase my capacity several hundred percent over the last five years. Granted, I am in a knowledge business - but why can't that in principle transfer to consumer electronics (cameras)?

09-18-2013, 03:54 PM   #2672
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
For Apple, maybe - but does that extend to Pentax?

The entire and only point of custom colors and eventually expanded BTO is to stimulate sales of K-mounts (they don't really care about cameras, they care about K-mounts) to increase the installed base of mounts (of course the same applies to Q).

The installed base of mounts drives everything - lens sales, accessory sales, third-party lens sales (which add credibility), custmoer identification and retention, B&M support, ad penetration - everything. Colors and BTO drives purchases of a second or third body in a household, impulse gift giving (cameras in school colors - really!!) and can conceivably drive purpose built cameras - and multiple mounts in a household.. If Build-to-Order can be done effectively and cost-efficiently it may well increase the installed base of mounts in the marketplace.

Technology has allowed me to customize my practice while simultaneously allowing me to increase my capacity several hundred percent over the last five years. Granted, I am in a knowledge business - but why can't that in principle transfer to consumer electronics (cameras)?
The Q has almost vanished from the BCN rankings in Japan, by far its stronghold. The highest Q kit is at 66 or something whereas a year ago they were all over the top 10. Maybe its day is over?

It's not immediately obvious that BTO is going to increase the sales of K-mounts. Why would all these customers suddenly switch to BTO instead of walking into a shop, buying a camera and walking out with it rather than waiting for several weeks (as at the moment with the Pentax colour build system, anyway) and taking a chance on something they haven't seen or handled? In the near future, what will increase the sales of K-mounts are some solid, competitively specced and priced cameras in a shop near you with marketing to match, or so I would guess anyway. I suppose I don't see how Ricoh can switch to BTO without, in effect, ditching their B&M operations in which case their cameras will become almost impossible to find or handle. Chances are the slack won't be taken up by BTO but by new sales for Nikon and Canon.

I can see that BTO would stand a much better chance of working in Japan. But I'd guess that about three people on this forum live in Japan.

In the meantime, I'm looking forward to some conventional cameras conventionally launched later this year.

I'm tempted to offer a magnum no a jereboam of virtual champagne to the person who can show that I'm completely mistaken - that in future there will be no conventional cameras sold in shops from Ricoh, just a BTO operation with some pretty pictures of what you're about to pay $$$$ for.

Bossa's suggestion of a fully modular high-end 645 system sounds much more likely, imho.

Last edited by mecrox; 09-18-2013 at 03:59 PM.
09-18-2013, 04:32 PM   #2673
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
The Q has almost vanished from the BCN rankings in Japan, by far its stronghold. The highest Q kit is at 66 or something whereas a year ago they were all over the top 10. Maybe its day is over?
If they still count each color and/or kit as a separate model it is no wonder that the highest is at 66th place. I could still be a stellar seller....
09-18-2013, 04:42 PM   #2674
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Anyone noticed how, in the last few weeks, especially since September 5th disappointment, the level of user's expectations and remarkably complex ideas about future products has risen to a whole new level — and all those ideas are found to be perfectly justifiable and possible, divine plans aligning exquisitely? Not just this thread.

It's amazing. Pentaxians have never been in deeper imagination than now.




Last edited by Uluru; 09-18-2013 at 04:51 PM.
09-18-2013, 04:46 PM   #2675
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It's amazing. Pentaxians have never been in deeper imagination than now.
It's a kind of crazy. Nothing to be proud of.
09-18-2013, 05:47 PM   #2676
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
The Q has almost vanished from the BCN rankings in Japan, by far its stronghold. The highest Q kit is at 66 or something whereas a year ago they were all over the top 10. Maybe its day is over?
Are you looking for Q10 / Q7?

QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I suppose I don't see how Ricoh can switch to BTO without, in effect, ditching their B&M operations in which case their cameras will become almost impossible to find or handle
The whole idea is to put a kiosk in every store in the USA (where there is not now ANY B&M presence to speak of) that has every single possible color combination, stock three standard colors (or later, configurations) in-store and allow customers to handle the cameras, then order through the Dealer their BTO camera. That's what they've done in New York City - why not everywhere? Why should it take weeks - it can be delivered in days.

If BTO becomes a reality it solves many pressing business issues, not the least of which is the problem of extending Dealer Credit terms to small businesses in the USA, which has remarkably borrower-friendly bankruptcy laws (see Nikon/Canon and Ritz Camera).
09-18-2013, 05:54 PM   #2677
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K-3 with 6D IQ
09-18-2013, 05:59 PM   #2678
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
The Q has almost vanished from the BCN rankings in Japan, by far its stronghold. The highest Q kit is at 66 or something whereas a year ago they were all over the top 10. Maybe its day is over?.
Same thing happened in early 2012, when it was barely visible on charts. There were articles, that Q can't get into BCN charts at all. Then in autumn 2012, it was among the best selling cameras. The whole concept of the Q, and the whole mirrorless market I'd say, is this: price it to sell quickly, and it will sell, and then it will be on charts.

Charts for mirrorless cameras sales mean nothing, I'd say; maybe only to tell us who is losing the most money, or earning thinnest margins possible. They don't reflect the health of a company's income at all.

09-18-2013, 07:35 PM   #2679
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Anyone noticed how, in the last few weeks, especially since September 5th disappointment, the level of user's expectations and remarkably complex ideas about future products has risen to a whole new level — and all those ideas are found to be perfectly justifiable and possible, divine plans aligning exquisitely? Not just this thread.

It's amazing. Pentaxians have never been in deeper imagination than now.
If I'm one of the people you're referring to then thanks, I'll take it as a compliment.

Imagination is what makes the world an interesting place in which to live and should never hide under a rock no matter the circumstances.
09-18-2013, 07:35 PM - 1 Like   #2680
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
I'm guessing :-) 20MP, Pentax in front, Ricoh at the back. What do you think?
I think you read too much DPR.
09-18-2013, 08:02 PM   #2681
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I've been suggesting for quite some time that Pentax could possibly extend the GXR format to a modular system with interchangeable components across formats. 645D MK2 might well be a kind of oversized GXR but where the sensor was not attached to a lens module. Viewfinders, sensor backs, grips etc could be so modular as to allow construction of a MF, FF or possibly even a APS-C machine although I think it more likely a modular MF system where a FF cropping mode would be implemented.
This would be cool. And possible too, I guess, although weather sealing raises the bar quite a bit. I mean it is much more difficult to achieve reliable weather sealing in a truly modular system. There would be so many gaskests, seams, parts that need to fit perfectly...
09-18-2013, 08:15 PM   #2682
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Does it matter? With a computer, you just fit one component or another into the appropriate slot. Different capacity HDDs? Yep, standard sizes, same cable. Different video boards? Put one in the PCI-E slot. Different processor? You only need a compatible mainboard/socket, put it in, put a cooler on top and that's all. And the case is large enough to support this (some are even monstrously large).
With a camera, you can't start connecting everything via slots, PC-style; unless you want a medium-format sized APS-C camera.
Why not? My story for the delay, along with the pains of joining two companies, is that the software/hardware system that Pentax has used had reached the end of it's marketable life. It takes a while when you start from scratch, even is you use existing technology. While doing that, if the design specs were a modular system, why couldn't you have a system where a larger sensor, larger buffer, quicker or slower processing, etc. is just a matter of swapping hardware. Not in the field, but in manufacturing. The end product may look different, there still are substantial parts of a camera body that is hardware implemented, but the software driving it could be very similar. Stuff we are used to in other places; extensions, addons, libraries, same stuff running on different processors with different speeds, memory, etc. Addons like wifi, or a new card technology, or tethering, or any of the neat stuff that we yearn for are simply an addon to a well designed core system.

I'm not talking about end user stuff, but from a design and manufacturing standpoint.
09-18-2013, 08:20 PM   #2683
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rorschach Quote
This would be cool. And possible too, I guess, although weather sealing raises the bar quite a bit. I mean it is much more difficult to achieve reliable weather sealing in a truly modular system. There would be so many gaskests, seams, parts that need to fit perfectly...
I don't see a user modular. More like a manufacturing modular. A user modular would as you say cause no end of problems.
09-18-2013, 08:25 PM   #2684
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
I'm guessing :-) 20MP, Pentax in front, Ricoh at the back. What do you think?
Would this be a DSLR mullet?
09-18-2013, 08:28 PM   #2685
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K-3 goodness

If Pentax could squeeze an extra 1/2 stop in the noise department over the K-5, then a 20 mp sensor sans AA would be pretty nice. I might even be convinced that I dont want a full frame camera after all. I really enjoy all of this speculation, especially in a "please dont speculate here" section of the forum. I think Uluru is correct, we are going a bit nutty, in a healthy and positive way. Maybe there is hope still.
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