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09-18-2013, 08:49 PM   #2686
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But great expectations often precede great disappointments. Maybe we should start a "Vent" thread in anticipation.

09-18-2013, 09:10 PM   #2687
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
But great expectations often precede great disappointments. Maybe we should start a "Vent" thread in anticipation.
True enough, but I dont think there is any shortage of venting on these forums. Someone at my workplace once suggested a no complaining policy, you can only imagine how much the complainers complained about that suggestion.
09-18-2013, 10:18 PM   #2688
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
But great expectations often precede great disappointments. Maybe we should start a "Vent" thread in anticipation.
Your cup is half empty? :-)
09-18-2013, 10:40 PM   #2689
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QuoteOriginally posted by PJ1 Quote
But great expectations often precede great disappointments. Maybe we should start a "Vent" thread in anticipation.
When is a thread on this forum NOT a "vent" thread ... J

09-18-2013, 10:44 PM   #2690
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belnan Quote
True enough, but I dont think there is any shortage of venting on these forums. Someone at my workplace once suggested a no complaining policy, you can only imagine how much the complainers complained about that suggestion.
If someone in France made this type of suggestion, then they would be tarred and feathered on the spot ... complaining in France, like many other places, is a national and cultural pass-time ... c'est la vie, J
09-18-2013, 11:09 PM   #2691
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I think you read too much DPR.
Nope, result of a sneak peak at plant.
09-19-2013, 12:27 AM   #2692
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Anyone noticed how, in the last few weeks, especially since September 5th disappointment, the level of user's expectations and remarkably complex ideas about future products has risen to a whole new level and all those ideas are found to be perfectly justifiable and possible, divine plans aligning exquisitely? Not just this thread.

It's amazing. Pentaxians have never been in deeper imagination than now.
That's logical; it appears Pentax will launch an excellent high-end camera, quite soon; a clear step-up from everything else they've done.
We can't let ourselves to be impressed by that, can we? So, we're raising the bar to impossible levels. No matter what Pentax does, it would look bleak and unimaginative in comparison.

QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Why not? My story for the delay, along with the pains of joining two companies, is that the software/hardware system that Pentax has used had reached the end of it's marketable life. It takes a while when you start from scratch, even is you use existing technology. While doing that, if the design specs were a modular system, why couldn't you have a system where a larger sensor, larger buffer, quicker or slower processing, etc. is just a matter of swapping hardware. Not in the field, but in manufacturing. The end product may look different, there still are substantial parts of a camera body that is hardware implemented, but the software driving it could be very similar. Stuff we are used to in other places; extensions, addons, libraries, same stuff running on different processors with different speeds, memory, etc. Addons like wifi, or a new card technology, or tethering, or any of the neat stuff that we yearn for are simply an addon to a well designed core system.

I'm not talking about end user stuff, but from a design and manufacturing standpoint.
You are touching, but not addressing my point.
Yes, the camera will have to be redesigned as a modular system, instead of the current integrated one. There are no extension slots in a camera, no room for additional boards of any kind. Add these, and you'll get an increase in size; even if you don't install the components. For example, if you opt not to have a top LCD it would be replaced by a cover, and the body still has the shape to accommodate one.
Software is indeed another issue, and I'm not sure if the current one can properly perform hardware detection.
09-19-2013, 01:06 AM   #2693
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Are you looking for Q10 / Q7?

The whole idea is to put a kiosk in every store in the USA (where there is not now ANY B&M presence to speak of) that has every single possible color combination, stock three standard colors (or later, configurations) in-store and allow customers to handle the cameras, then order through the Dealer their BTO camera. That's what they've done in New York City - why not everywhere? Why should it take weeks - it can be delivered in days.

If BTO becomes a reality it solves many pressing business issues, not the least of which is the problem of extending Dealer Credit terms to small businesses in the USA, which has remarkably borrower-friendly bankruptcy laws (see Nikon/Canon and Ritz Camera).
On my local Q colour configurator it says: "Wait for approximately 5 weeks for your camera to be specially made for you and delivered."

I'm not sure why it should be automatically assumed that Ricoh will be able to put a kiosk in all those stores where it currently does not offer physical cameras. Why would those stores want kiosks rather than cameras? And why would the store want a Ricoh kiosk when everyone else is doing kiosks as well, which they will if BTO is the no-brainer financial winner some seem to think it is? The logic here leads inexorably to online-only sales, it seems to me.

Apart from the small matter of Ricoh needing to make huge investments in back-end systems and modular hardware design, for which there doesn't seem any public evidence, you are making BTO sound as easy as falling off a log. I don't believe it is. In my country, I have to search high and low and travel for hours to find a physical selection of Ricoh items. If the same applies to a BTO kiosk, then as a customer I am no better off. BTO may make it more profitable for Ricoh to sell things but the key is making it easier for the customer to buy those things.


Last edited by mecrox; 09-19-2013 at 01:11 AM.
09-19-2013, 01:07 AM   #2694
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How about if the customisation was in the grip - say one with Wi-Fi and GPS, another with extra processing power for more fps... and so on. Hang on while I throw a bucket of cold water on my fevered imagination. Uluru is right.....
09-19-2013, 02:32 AM   #2695
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
How about if the customisation was in the grip - say one with Wi-Fi and GPS, another with extra processing power for more fps... and so on. Hang on while I throw a bucket of cold water on my fevered imagination. Uluru is right.....
I'd rather call this a modular system than customized. If most of the modularity would be inside the grip (and perhaps also hotshoe mounted stuff like the present GPS unit), the problems of a modular system with weather sealing would suddenly go away. Pentax would merely need to design one or perhaps two weather shielded grips that would then have different optional modules that could be installed inside as needed. Finally a good use for grips, IMO! (I do not do much portraits and do not need present grips in general)
09-19-2013, 02:55 AM   #2696
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Kiosks in stores?

So......2002.

An app.
09-19-2013, 03:07 AM   #2697
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
How about if the customisation was in the grip - say one with Wi-Fi and GPS, another with extra processing power for more fps... and so on. Hang on while I throw a bucket of cold water on my fevered imagination. Uluru is right.....
The trouble is, there are only so many ways of customizing a camera which makes sense. You might want to change the sensor, but then what if the rest of the components are obsolete? WiFi and GPS modules, already done. More FPS, nope... it depends on the mirror/shutter/aperture/AF and on the sensor read-out rate (unless we're talking about power, then it's already done).
I'd say the higher end you'd go, the more sense it makes; think about a digital medium format solution which can shoot 4K movies and has upgrade-able mSata storage. But for cameras I'd buy, I don't see this working.
09-19-2013, 03:19 AM   #2698
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
More FPS, nope... it depends on the mirror/shutter/aperture/AF
I'm pretty sure the D800 shutter mechanism is capable of much more than 4 fps. The limiting factor seems to be the amount of data that has to be shifted and processed. I could be linked to the sensor read-out speed, as you say, but adding a second processor would probably speed things up. So would a larger, faster buffer. Not everyone needs 10 fps, but those needing it could then invest in the appropriate grip with the necessary processing boost.

And since we're dreaming, I'd like a new sports car, too.
09-19-2013, 03:33 AM   #2699
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It depends on the sensor read-out speed, and how fast it can write the data to the buffer/RAM (besides the mechanical limitations).
Adding a second processor would speed up processing of the already buffered data, thus not impacting FPS. Adding more RAM would just increase the buffer size (and it's the slowest module which sets the speed). Anyway, I doubt that memory found on a grip, accessed via a limited pin count connector, could be faster than the tightly integrated buffer from the same circuit board.

How about:
+ a better power supply, allowing for higher fps (Nikon-style), effectively "overclocking" the camera?
+ integrated storage, e.g. for movies, with WiFi for uploading the data to a server
09-19-2013, 03:44 AM   #2700
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
How about:
+ a better power supply, allowing for higher fps (Nikon-style), effectively "overclocking" the camera?
+ integrated storage, e.g. for movies, with WiFi for uploading the data to a server
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