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09-10-2012, 10:45 AM   #916
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
DXOmark does not seem to respond (to me)..
Do you have a flash-blocker on your web browser?

09-10-2012, 10:47 AM   #917
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
This is the issue. When Nikon is sticking a 24 megapixel sensor in its D3200, unless there is some serious drawback to that sensor that I don't know about, then it makes sense to use that sensor and take advantage of it. Deciding to use 16 megapixel sensor in all of your cameras just makes you seem behind the opposition.
Unless Pentax does not have access to the sensor.
People still can't admit that Sony sends sensors to themselves and Nikon and others can only wait until Sony says Ok AND that the price is acceptable.
09-10-2012, 11:16 AM   #918
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Do you have a flash-blocker on your web browser?
No, I don't. The site is usually very responsive but became unavailable there for a while, just a few minutes after the post about comparing the K-5 to the D3200 (not much difference on the DXO scales). I wondered if it were hit hard after that post but I don't know that a couple hundred (at most) add'l users would affect the site's performance. It's back and working flawlessly now. Thanks for the tip, though!
09-10-2012, 11:30 AM   #919
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Looking at the DxOMark review, I'd rather have the K-5 sensor than the D3200 sensor.
Well, I think that at low iso, there is some resolution gain with 24 megapixel sensor. At high iso, it is awash. Dynamic range roughly equivalent.

09-10-2012, 11:54 AM   #920
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Unless Pentax does not have access to the sensor.
People still can't admit that Sony sends sensors to themselves and Nikon and others can only wait until Sony says Ok AND that the price is acceptable.
Yeah but the the 24Mp sensor was used in the A77, announced more than a year ago. I can't think of any reason why after a year it still cannot be used, unless Sony is really scared about what Pentax can do with that sensor
09-10-2012, 11:58 AM   #921
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Looking at the DxOMark review, I'd rather have the K-5 sensor than the D3200 sensor.
+1

No, make that
+111111111111111111111111111111111111111
09-10-2012, 12:07 PM   #922
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
Yeah but the the 24Mp sensor was used in the A77, announced more than a year ago. I can't think of any reason why after a year it still cannot be used...
Who knows if it is the sensor to blame or not, but I thought this sounded like a pretty reasonable review for the Sony A77 on Amazon. Perhaps this explains why Pentax says "pass". IQ more important than MP.
QuoteQuote:
Awesome camera, with severe limitations, July 21, 2012
By
Chris Nibley "mr. fahrenheit"
This review is from: Sony A77 24.3 MP Translucent Mirror Digital SLR With 16-50mm F2.8 lens (Camera)
Let me start by saying that I've owned a Sony a200, a700, Canon 40D, 60D, and Nikon D300s; as well as a Sony nex-5, and currently the nex-5n. Out of all these cameras I love the a77 the most and have no intentions of ever selling it. So why 3 stars you ask? Two reasons: ISO performance and lens selection.

I took off one star for ISO performance because it is simply AWFUL. Pictures of certain situations will display noticeable noise as low as ISO 100 and by ISO 400 you can see noise in pictures of any situation. I have to admit that I've taken pictures at ISO 3200 that I actually like but it is rare. In fact, I am very scared to ever take this camera above ISO 800 and do so only if it is absolutely necessary. On my 60D I didn't even think about ISO until I got to 3200, so that's very disappointing. It's especially disappointing because the ISO performance of the nex-5 and nex-5n are OUTSTANDING! I would literally pay $500 to be able to put the 5n's sensor in the a77's body, there's that big of a difference. The worst part about the noise that this camera produces is that it's simply ugly. Canon and Nikon produce noise that could well be described as grainy. In some situations, this noise can actually improve pictures by adding more of a film-look and a bit of character to a picture - not so with the noise from the a77. I would describe the noise from this camera as splotchy and I have yet to see it improve one of my pictures. So that is my first, and biggest, gripe with this camera.

My second gripe is the lens selection/strategy for Sony's alpha lineup. There are several things wrong with Sony's lens selection/strategy and if it's not fixed by the time I'm ready to get a new camera, I'm probably going back to Nikon. The most obvious problem with Sony's alpha lenses is that they are ridiculously overpriced. Comparing Sony's lenses to the Canon and Nikon equivalents, the Sony is almost always significantly more expensive (70-400 Canon-$1,600 Sony-$2,000, 24-70 f2.8 Canon-$1,200 Sony-$2,000, 70-300 Canon-$500 Sony-$1,00! - I could go on). This would be ridiculous even if Sony's lenses were directly comparable to Canon's and Nikon's, because as the smaller player, Sony needs to be buying market share with reduced prices, not charging a premium for a brand that has no clout. But the most ludicrous aspect of this problem is the fact that Canon's and Nikon's lenses offer much more than Sony's. Every one of Canon's and Nikon's professional lenses are weather-sealed and most are stabilized. The only one of Sony's lenses that is weather-sealed is the new 16-50 f2.8, and not one of them is stabilized. So Sony is charging way more for their lenses which provide way less than the competitors - doesn't that bother anyone besides me? It's especially upsetting because I remember back to when Sony bought Minolta and they were lauding the benefits of in-body stabilization, and they made such a big deal about the fact that the lenses would be cheaper because they wouldn't need stabilization. That's just plain hypocrisy.
Frankly I just don't like in-body stabilization. I desperately wish that Sony would redo their entire strategy and move the stabilization to the lenses - I mean I'm already paying the same price for the lenses anyways! It's also created another problem with the advent of the nex lineup because even though you can get autofocus with alpha lenses, you'll never be able to get stabilization - and that is a HUGE drawback. That greatly reduces the usability of alpha lenses on nex bodies which is a shame because there are many situations where I wanted to use my nex with the alpha lens but couldn't because of this problem.

Okay so those are the two significant things that I don't like about this camera. There are other small niggles but nothing worth mentioning here. Like I said before, I do love this camera and probably get a higher percentage of keepers out of it than any camera before. However, that's only after realizing the troubles this camera has with noise and figuring out ways to work around it.
09-10-2012, 12:30 PM   #923
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QuoteOriginally posted by cheekygeek Quote
Who knows if it is the sensor to blame or not, but I thought this sounded like a pretty reasonable review for the Sony A77 on Amazon. Perhaps this explains why Pentax says "pass". IQ more important than MP.
True but have you compared the K-5 with the A55 and Nikon D3200 who both used ore or less the same sensor (at least according to what I can find). K-5 was a major leap...

09-10-2012, 01:54 PM   #924
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don't even bother with the k-5, compare it to the (long condemned, and imho without justification) k-7, or k20 (same sensor more or less). at iso 400 and 800 the k-7 is in some ways slightly better, it seems. the k-5 can only be compared to the d7000 from what i've seen so far.

oh, sorry, i forgot the k-5 is outdated and obsolete, and is, what was it? "showing it's age"?
09-10-2012, 01:55 PM   #925
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If I have to choose (for credibility) between DXOmark and a guy posting on Amazon ..... He may be correct but that would be a random event on Amazon.
09-10-2012, 02:36 PM   #926
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
If I have to choose (for credibility) between DXOmark and a guy posting on Amazon ..... He may be correct but that would be a random event on Amazon.
Fine! Check it out: dx0mark comparison of Pentax K-5 and Sony A77

K-5 has nearly a full EV more in the dynamic range department and look at the relative ISOs: The K-5 is nearly 50% better. You have to know to look at more than megapixels. (It appears that both Dx0mark and the reviewer I posted to on Amazon have independently discovered the same thing - one through testing and one through experience and subjectivity.)

Last edited by cheekygeek; 09-10-2012 at 04:08 PM.
09-10-2012, 05:11 PM   #927
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On the official Pentax facebook page, a guy asking "why no 24 Mp sensor ?" has been answered by the Pentax rep :

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentax:
Based on some of the comparisons we have seen between current 16MP and 24MP sensors (for example ISO Torture Test: Sony A77 vs Pentax K-5) the 16MP sensor seems like a good choice. It is still the top rated APS-c sized sensor of all time by Dxo.
09-10-2012, 06:44 PM   #928
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The reps answer is a bit disingenuous, since the A77 suffers for the translucent mirror. A better comparison would be with the NEX-7' where the K-5 maintains a .7 EV dynamic range advantage, and is 10% better in dxomark's ISO evaluation. The K-5 is also 14 bit, where Sony is only now getting ready to announce their first 14-bit camera, the full frame a99.
09-11-2012, 09:27 AM   #929
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I have a feeling that we haven't seen it all yet...
09-11-2012, 09:34 AM   #930
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QuoteOriginally posted by cheekygeek Quote
Fine! Check it out: dx0mark comparison of Pentax K-5 and Sony A77

K-5 has nearly a full EV more in the dynamic range department and look at the relative ISOs: The K-5 is nearly 50% better. You have to know to look at more than megapixels. (It appears that both Dx0mark and the reviewer I posted to on Amazon have independently discovered the same thing - one through testing and one through experience and subjectivity.)
it's not fair comparision - A77 is SLT, need to compare with NEX-7
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-came...brand3)/Pentax

it's almost the same results
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