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02-21-2013, 04:35 AM   #1006
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It didn't surprised me; the 645D is a modern camera, by DMF market. I'm sure the customers are appreciating that.
I've yet to read a report from a disappointed 645D owner. And I guess "lower price" isn't counted as an improvement request in Pentax headquarters

02-21-2013, 04:49 AM   #1007
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Tell me what you're tripping on so I can avoid it.
Pentax.


QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
They've used variants of the 16mp sensor in 5 cameras (the WGs? Why are you bringing them in?)
Because they too use the 16mp sensor again.


QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
and certainly fewer cameras than Sony has made with the same sensor - Sony has 11 cameras with the 16mp sensor in its slightly different generations!
The difference is that Sony also uses multiple alternative APS-C sensors in their other models. Users have choice and can upgrade there. Pentax complete APS-C line consists fully of one and the same sensor though. I would seriously not be surprised if they would use it again in their upcomming K-3.


QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Sometimes I wonder if you are a paid astroturfer from Nikon or Sony
Yeah, because without being paid for it it is sure is very difficult to make fun of Pentax.
02-21-2013, 05:03 AM   #1008
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
A Sony sensor, presumably?
Hopefully not the one from the NEX-7.
Do you have any infos?

The D7100's weather-sealing and body-only price put pressure on the K-3.

I don't see Pentax adding any killer features that would justify the old D7000/K-5 price point.

P.S.: Kudos to Pentax if they will be offering both K-3 and K-3s versions. 24MP are not enough for worry free operation w/o Bayer-colour-filter. I'm surprised Nikon apparently will not give users a choice. Maybe Nikkors don't resolve that much?
The Nikon D5200 is using a Toshiba 24MP sensor. I would assume that the D7100 will have the same sensor. We know the NEX-7 replacement is due very soon, but I bet Sony keeps that sensor for its own use given how well that body is expected to sell.
02-21-2013, 05:08 AM   #1009
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I don't see much point in Pentax using a 24Mp sensor in the upcoming FX format camera - somewhere in the 28~36Mp range seems like a good place to start differentiating between the newer generation of APS-C sensors and FX sensors.
Taking the 24MP APS-C sensor and using that wafer for a FF sensor would get you close to 50MP. Canon has been testing a 47+/- FF. If Pentax is looking at a release date of late fall 2013 or later, then I would expect it to be closer to 50MP than 36MP. Then we will see the 60- 80MP 645DII.

02-21-2013, 05:15 AM   #1010
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NIKON D7100
24.1MP CMOS sensor
6fps
No AA filter (similar to the D800E)
51 AF point, 15 cross-type
Built-in HDR function
2016-pixel RGB sensor
3.2" 1,229k dots LCD screen
Dual SD card slots
EXPEED 3 processor
ISO range: 100-6400
100% viewfinder coverage
Video: 1080p @ 60i/50i/30/25/24 fps plus 720p @ 60p
Compatible with the WU-1a wireless mobile adapter

Canon 7DII
24.1mp APS-C Sensor
Dual DIGIC V
10fps
Dual Memory Card Slots
61 AF Points
3.2″ LCD
Build quality like 5D3
GPS & Wifi
$2199
ISO Performance to get close to the 5D3
Lots of video features

What will the Sony A7x look like?
What will the Pentax K-3 look like?
02-21-2013, 05:44 AM   #1011
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ISO to only 6400 seems a little odd for the D7100 being a generation ahead of the K-5, which has a stop above this on its native sensitivity range. I'd only be impressed if the 6400 results eclipse that of the K-5.
02-21-2013, 06:01 AM   #1012
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I think the specs of the new D7100 look fantastic. The crop mode at 1.3 X will be great for wildlife shooters, plus the 51 pt auto focus system blows Pentax away. Hoping Ricoh comes through with a major upgrade to the Pentax auto focus system.
02-21-2013, 06:04 AM   #1013
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Because they too use the 16mp sensor again.
I'd grab my credit card and run as fast as I could to the nearest camera store if they used that 16mp sensor. But of course they don't - they use a microscopic one.

QuoteQuote:
I would seriously not be surprised if they would use it again in their upcomming K-3.
With your attitude, it's difficult to be surprised by anything but good news...

02-21-2013, 06:08 AM   #1014
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
ISO to only 6400 seems a little odd for the D7100 being a generation ahead of the K-5, which has a stop above this on its native sensitivity range. I'd only be impressed if the 6400 results eclipse that of the K-5.
Dpreview says it is a new 24 mp sensor, not one reused from elsewhere. However, I guess no one outside Nikon knows the precise situation.

One of the things that must concern Nikon is that if they make the D7100 so good it might kill off the desire of many to move up to the D600 level and the $$$ ramp of the Nikon lens catalogue. So it will be interesting to see how this camera performs in practice even though, on paper, it looks a pretty darn formidable beast given its price which is lower than it might have been only recently. It's interesting that, again on paper, moire and moire removal with this new camera simply haven't been mentioned.

The possibility that any K3 is a souped up K30 rather than a souped up K5 is still on the table, imho. I'm beginning to wonder whether the so very quiet and recessive Ricoh has the stomach for the kind of aggressive marketing and investment competing against the D7100 or a 7D mk II would suggest. They might try for a knock out lower down the scale, at the D5200 level. In fact they might see the entire future of their camera division as being more on that level, very commercial and firmly middle market. Goodbye unaffordable dreams of the high end, hello Casio kind of idea. We'll soon see, I hope.

Last edited by mecrox; 02-21-2013 at 06:23 AM.
02-21-2013, 06:09 AM   #1015
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
NIKON D7100
24.1MP CMOS sensor
6fps
No AA filter (similar to the D800E)
51 AF point, 15 cross-type
Built-in HDR function
2016-pixel RGB sensor
3.2" 1,229k dots LCD screen
Dual SD card slots
EXPEED 3 processor
ISO range: 100-6400
100% viewfinder coverage
Video: 1080p @ 60i/50i/30/25/24 fps plus 720p @ 60p
Compatible with the WU-1a wireless mobile adapter

Canon 7DII
24.1mp APS-C Sensor
Dual DIGIC V
10fps
Dual Memory Card Slots
61 AF Points
3.2″ LCD
Build quality like 5D3
GPS & Wifi
$2199
ISO Performance to get close to the 5D3
Lots of video features

What will the Sony A7x look like?
What will the Pentax K-3 look like?
You forgot to mention that D7100 will be $1000 less than 7DII !!!

B&H preorder D7100.
02-21-2013, 06:24 AM   #1016
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
...Making the 24MP APS-C sensor and using that wafer for a FF sensor would get you close to 50MP.
Diffraction would be problematic with resolution that high, f/5.6 is the aperture sweet spot with the K5IIs - same goes for the D800E. A 50Mp sensor would be limited to around f/2.8 - few manufacturers produce lenses that perform anywhere near the diffraction limit, at that aperture a perfect diffraction limited lens would be able to resolve around 500Lp/pmm there is only one lens that I own that comes close to achieving this: the Leica 50mm f/2 APO-Summicron. As the Mp keep getting higher and higher diffraction limited lenses will have to be developed - and they will command a hefty price. The Leica 50mm APO-Summicron-M ASPH costs around $8000 - the old non-apochromatic 50mm Aspsherical 'cron can be bought for less than half that amount, the Pre-ASPH versions of it sell for even less, and they are treasured by collectors and lens aficionados.

MTF for the Leica APO-Summicron-M ASPH at f/2:

Last edited by Digitalis; 02-21-2013 at 06:47 AM.
02-21-2013, 07:25 AM   #1017
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Diffraction would be problematic with resolution that high, f/5.6 is the aperture sweet spot with the K5IIs - same goes for the D800E. A 50Mp sensor would be limited to around f/2.8 - few manufacturers produce lenses that perform anywhere near the diffraction limit, at that aperture a perfect diffraction limited lens would be able to resolve around 500Lp/pmm there is only one lens that I own that comes close to achieving this: the Leica 50mm f/2 APO-Summicron. As the Mp keep getting higher and higher diffraction limited lenses will have to be developed - and they will command a hefty price. The Leica 50mm APO-Summicron-M ASPH costs around $8000 - the old non-apochromatic 50mm Aspsherical 'cron can be bought for less than half that amount, the Pre-ASPH versions of it sell for even less, and they are treasured by collectors and lens aficionados.

MTF for the Leica APO-Summicron-M ASPH at f/2:
Wouldn't the same issue apple to a 24MP APS-C? Since the 16MP K-5 and the 36MP D800 both peak at F/5.6 then I guess the 24MP APS-C and a 48MP FF would also peak at the same aperture.

Foveon X3 46 Megapixel is technically a 16MP sensor, but shows pretty amazing resolution and Sigma says they are designing lenses for higher resolution, that is greater than the D800.

New dimension of full-frame imaging | Camera Lens Blog Zeiss is also working on new glass for the new high MP cameras.
02-21-2013, 07:28 AM   #1018
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
NIKON D7100
24.1MP CMOS sensor
6fps
No AA filter (similar to the D800E)
51 AF point, 15 cross-type
Built-in HDR function
2016-pixel RGB sensor
3.2" 1,229k dots LCD screen
Dual SD card slots
EXPEED 3 processor
ISO range: 100-6400
100% viewfinder coverage
Video: 1080p @ 60i/50i/30/25/24 fps plus 720p @ 60p
Compatible with the WU-1a wireless mobile adapter

Canon 7DII
24.1mp APS-C Sensor
Dual DIGIC V
10fps
Dual Memory Card Slots
61 AF Points
3.2″ LCD
Build quality like 5D3
GPS & Wifi
$2199
ISO Performance to get close to the 5D3
Lots of video features

What will the Sony A7x look like?
What will the Pentax K-3 look like?
The D7100 looks pretty nice, if nothing else I would expect the K-5 IIs to drop in price by atleast a couple hundred dollars. Nikon has takin the gloves off I don't think there is much chance of the K-3 being so well speced for this price. Canon has so many users they don't nessarily have to compete at this price range, although it may come back to bite them in the future.
02-21-2013, 07:30 AM   #1019
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Who wants to bet the same 24MP sensor will be in the K-3? :-)
Matches the resolution rumors...
I'm disappointed there's no 1080/60p speed out of that sensor though....you'd think they would have designed for that speed with all the other cameras supporting it now, but I guess they cheaped out on the readout sensors...
02-21-2013, 07:39 AM   #1020
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
then I guess the 24MP APS-C and a 48MP FF would also peak at the same aperture.
The peak on a 24mp APS-C sized sensor would be around f/4 - thankfully quite a few primes lenses get close to offering peak performance at that aperture. The resolution limit for an optically perfect diffraction limited f/4 lens is around 350Lp/pmm
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