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03-21-2013, 06:17 PM   #1321
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Not quite. Same pixel density would make a 24Mp FF image equivalent to 16Mp APS-C image (crop factor is 1.5). Resolution advantage is still an important consideration for a FF model, since current high-end APS-C resolution is topping 20Mp. It is not enough of an argument to say that 12Mp FF users are happy with their cameras and therefore 24Mp should be more than enough for a current FF camera. Unmet consumer demand can make an otherwise excellent product into a marginalised one.
I think the d800 is 36 MP and in "crop mode" yeilds 16MP for use with DX lenses. The FF sensor has twice the area of an APS-C sensor, and a APS-H sensor has 50% more area than a APS-C sensor ... give or take a bit.


Last edited by tram57; 03-21-2013 at 06:22 PM. Reason: clarification
03-21-2013, 06:24 PM   #1322
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QuoteOriginally posted by ozlizard Quote
There is absolutely no point in Pentax producing anything less than a minimum 36mp full frame.
At the moment there is only one other out there (D800) and if Pentax can produce something slightly out of left field with such a camera, they may get some market share.

Of course if they leave it too long (not Pentax, surely?), they will get left behind in this area once again.
Producing a 24mp full frame is already 1-2 years too late, and will be just playing catch up.

Pentax needs to be an innovator not a follower.
there is only one (d800 and d800e we can count as one) camera w/ 36mp... the rest are not more than 24mp...
03-21-2013, 06:27 PM   #1323
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QuoteOriginally posted by ozlizard Quote
There is absolutely no point in Pentax producing anything less than a minimum 36mp full frame.
At the moment there is only one other out there (D800) and if Pentax can produce something slightly out of left field with such a camera, they may get some market share.

Of course if they leave it too long (not Pentax, surely?), they will get left behind in this area once again.
Producing a 24mp full frame is already 1-2 years too late, and will be just playing catch up.

Pentax needs to be an innovator not a follower.
Well, whatever floats your boat. Neverhtless, there is much more to good photos, as well as to innovation, than just high megapixel count.

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”
-Henry Ford
03-21-2013, 06:33 PM   #1324
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Not to mention, no chip producer woud produce APS-H only for Pentax, or at reasonable price.
Too ridiculous market-share.
what is the marketshare of Nikon 1, yet special sized sensor was fab'd... for as long as you do not stitch sensor on die with multiple exposures (like for FF or bigger) there shall be no big $ issues to procure something bigger than APS-C... Sony Semiconductor is actively looking for customers for sure to compensate losses @ nikon ( like they replaced Panasonic for new m43 cameras )

03-21-2013, 08:31 PM - 3 Likes   #1325
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Why is it pointless to make a 24mp FF? I know if I had two cameras, one with 24 and one with 36, and both had the same feature set. But the 24mp is $1000 less expensive... I'm grabbing the 24mp.

That's the biggest thing wrong with the D600, the fact it is so crippled in features even vs the K5. Now if Pentax gave me the K5 feature set with the D600 sensor and image processing speed, I'd be happier than a pig in poop.
03-21-2013, 09:16 PM   #1326
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QuoteOriginally posted by ozlizard Quote
Image quality will always win over speed in my book.
What do most photographer shoot? Landscapes, sports, studio, family snaps?
FWIW I shoot a lot of wildlife, esp. birds. A fast frame rate is very important (I have a K-5 and use the 7fps for birding)
We need both
03-22-2013, 12:05 AM   #1327
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think these are two important issues. An APS-H sensor would have some advantages in getting the camera to the market. Creating a unique future to the Pentax brand that can be promoted.
Ron, how? How could a sensor that doesn't exist have "some advantages in getting the camera to the market"?
And the marketing campaign would be "We couldn't get you a FF camera, we had to settle with something smaller. Sorry, we did our best"? IMO a FF is the way of being "up there", in the small format arena - even if smaller formats makes excellent cameras.
03-22-2013, 01:02 AM   #1328
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Miscalculated. 24Mp FF = 10.7Mp APS-C (24 divided by 1.5 squared). My bad. Therefore 36Mp FF would be the only FF that would make sense for Pentax to top the K-5 and provide a marketable resolution advantage.

03-22-2013, 01:03 AM   #1329
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QuoteOriginally posted by ozlizard Quote
Pentax needs to be an innovator not a follower.
They are - what camera maker, after all, made the SLR? Or fast forward, the built-in flash?, Or fast forward again, colored entry-level bodies + kits? The smallest ILCs? -3EV AF sensors? Pentax innovates. They just haven't innovated as big as they did in the yonder days, but as far as the competition counts in recent years, Pentax went in first (except mirrorless!)
03-22-2013, 01:07 AM   #1330
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Ron, how? How could a sensor that doesn't exist have "some advantages in getting the camera to the market"?
And the marketing campaign would be "We couldn't get you a FF camera, we had to settle with something smaller. Sorry, we did our best"? IMO a FF is the way of being "up there", in the small format arena - even if smaller formats makes excellent cameras.
So you prefer to keep hearing: "We are currently developing FF." repeated for the next ~5 years, then to have a larger format camera from them sooner?

I agree with digitalis. APSH would fit a non-mainstream camera very well. Like some kind of mirrorless, maybe even square format, camera.
03-22-2013, 01:11 AM   #1331
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I only see positives for Pentax to develop a FF camera. The concept doesn't have to be innovative, but you can bet Pentax's offering would be a desirable product for all the features we know Pentax is unique for.
03-22-2013, 01:14 AM   #1332
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
They are - what camera maker, after all, made the SLR?
Contax Dresden in '48.


QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
Pentax went in first (except mirrorless!)
That's their chance to innovate right there: FF mirrorless (Oh no! Not that discussion again!)

Like I said in the other thread: a camera-line dedicated to pro's. One of which could be entirely devoted to studio photography: With excellent double HDMI-out ports, tethering, wifi, and great flash support. No need for WR or SR in a studio. And viewfinders and backpanels are kinda useless/redundant when you 're in a studio hooking the camera up to 22 inch (or bigger) screens. Maybe a very rudimentary EVF for that one walkaround.

Last edited by Clavius; 03-22-2013 at 01:59 AM.
03-22-2013, 01:44 AM   #1333
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
So you prefer to keep hearing: "We are currently developing FF." repeated for the next ~5 years, then to have a larger format camera from them sooner?
Can you answer the question, then? How could a sensor that doesn't exist (and would have to be custom made) help them in getting the camera out faster?
03-22-2013, 01:50 AM   #1334
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Pentax still ought to follow market demand. I see not only from this forum but through worldwide marketing data that APS-C and FF dSLRs make sense since that's what a good number of enthusiasts are after.
03-22-2013, 01:53 AM   #1335
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Can you answer the question, then? How could a sensor that doesn't exist (and would have to be custom made) help them in getting the camera out faster?
It exists. Just take a full format sensor and mount it in a housing which crops it to APS-H size - it will be much cheaper than a custom made sensor, too
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