K-3 speculation

Winder · 05-18-2011, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Emacs

What are you laughing about? The diffraction has some serious impact on the IQ. It would be worse in the 24mp sensor and f8 than on the 16mp one with the same f8 aperture. It seems to be Sony marketing bullshit who try to justify stoppping FF production for their customers (more mps to see more abberations LOL)

You need to send Sony an e-mail and explain the whole "diffraction" thing. I bet they haven't even though about it yet. They might hire you as a consultant.

Sony does seem to know a thing or two about making high quality sensors. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the 24MP sensor will have better IQ that the 16MP. Sony is saving their best sensor for their flagship APS-C body.

By Spring 2012 Canon/Nikon/Sony will all have 20+MP APS-C bodies announced or shipping. The question is - What will Pentax be doing?

jaieger · 05-18-2011, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by yeatzee

graduation present?

(class of 2012

)

K-5 was mine, 2011

Brooke Meyer · 05-18-2011, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by twitch

After the K-5 debarcle I don't think I'd be buying a K-3 in the first couple of months of its production.

I hate debarcles, you have to scrape the hull.

rvannatta · 05-18-2011, 09:49 PM

Sheesh, I'm still trying to get used to using the K5. I used my K2 for 20 years. A K3 or K4 or what ever they call it is going to have to be really good to get my attention. I haven't been buying every model..--- the k5 is my 3rd one.. I had an ISTD, a K10 and now the K5. I'll still be learning how to use the K5 by next year.....

While I recognize they need to refresh their product line regularly, I think the technology is stable enough that routine annual model changes aren't going t suck me in. the K5 is just too good..... and I still haven't mastered half the things it does.....

Steve Beswick · 05-18-2011, 10:42 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

...
This is my biggest thing to improve with K-5. It is deadt slow in handling the amount of data in processing and not using UHS-I speed in writing. I did a search for flipping over to Canon and buy a 1D. The diffenrence is amazing in speed (if you'r willing to pay for that udma-card). With 1D you can make in jpg 600 pictures in a minute and with K-5 you go up to 106 (but actually you only manage to run 75 pictures since you are ending with a full buffer). When you set all lenscorrections on and make jpg's you van make after full buffer every 3 seconds a picture and the rest is just work for processing and that is seriously not acceptable for future camera's. Speedwise it needs at least a doubling in speed but I would like even to quadruple it.
...

Wow - how awful. ONLY 75 recorded images per minute. I bet you are missing a ton of keepers with that pathetically slow camera. It's amazing to think that the great photographers of the past often didn't shoot that many frames per week, and yet here you are, shooting that many per minute. I can't even begin to imagine the endless volumes of incredible shots you have taken with such a camera. Imagine if you could work 8 times faster! Time to trash that Pentax and run out and buy a Canon!

GordonZA · 05-18-2011, 10:56 PM

Keeping the technology up to date with regards the bodies is all wonderful... but for a bird photographer like myself the lack of anything over 300mm in the lens line up is becoming unnaceptable. Pentax please go and have your ears waxed, get new glasses and F**** read and listen to what your customers are telling you!!

YOOHOO... 500mm DA* F4.5 ED[IF] SDM please!!!!!! (to go with the rumoured new body....)

I write bird books and need this equipment to get material for those books, I have the money to buy it... I don't want to get the Sigma... I want a Pentax lens and NO I do not want to spend on second hand glass.

Again, new camera bodies are great but I will change my system soon if nothing is done with regards super tele's.

My two cents worth.

garyk · 05-18-2011, 11:27 PM

GordonZA, sounds like you are in a great position to shoot wonderful bird pics. If you travel and write why do you stay with Pentax and why do you not like Sigma. Looks like you are missing a chance of a lifetime. For a piece of glass that is easily had elsewhere.
Just curious.

jsherman999 · 05-18-2011, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by Ash

How much more high ISO performance do we need? (Yes, I know we want clean ISO gazillion shots... but I can say my best images are ones at ISO 80, not at 6400+

)

But what if you could have the same noise performance and close to the same DR that you have at ISO 80, but at ISO 400? 800? Or 1600?

When the ISO ceiling bumps, it doesn't mean you have to shoot at that ceiling to see the benefits. Everything else down below gets cleaner, and you start to forget about the old days when you'd occasionally find yourself shutter-speed limited.

.

rawr · 05-18-2011, 11:37 PM

On the subject of long Pentax tele's, there is an interesting inconsistency between this list of lenses which are explicitly discontinued in the Japanese market:
Interchangeable Lenses (Models discontinued in the Japanese market) : Digital Cameras : Products : PENTAX
and this list of current Pentax lenses:
Interchangeable Lenses : Digital Cameras : Products : PENTAX

On the Japan page, they explicitly say the FA 300 and the FA 600 are discontinued. On the non-Japan page, they don't explicity declare those lenses un-available.

Which suggest that there may be two Pentax super-tele-lenses available outside Japan: the smc PENTAX-FA300mm F2.8 ED [IF] and the smc PENTAX-FA600mm F4ED.

Furthermore, even on the Japan-discontinued lense page the 600mm f4 is listed as 'Order Only'. Pic related.

Name: fa600.jpg
Views: 1239
Size: 15.4 KB

Name: fa600.jpg
Views: 1239
Size: 15.4 KB

So it seems to me that if you order direct from Pentax JP, one might be able to get ahold of at least a new FA 600..., and maybe even a FA 300 2.8.

Perhaps.

GordonZA · 05-19-2011, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by garyk

GordonZA, sounds like you are in a great position to shoot wonderful bird pics. If you travel and write why do you stay with Pentax and why do you not like Sigma. Looks like you are missing a chance of a lifetime. For a piece of glass that is easily had elsewhere.
Just curious.

Simple, I LOVE Pentax!!

Tried Canon bodies and hated them. Nikon is pretty good but I just happen to love the Pentax bodies and glass... just wish that we had a super tele available new...

For the new camera, my wishlist:
1. Faster AF in continuous
2. High noise free ISO is very usefull
3. More FPS won't hurt those of us that use it... birds coming in to land, etc
4. Even quieter shutter... (try photographing an elephant right next to your hide, your shutter goes off and the elephant stops eating and looks at the hide... )
5. Higher MP is fine so long as there is no compromise to speed.
6. Larger buffer and faster write speeds, even a dual SD system with writing even numbered photos to one SD and odd numbered pics to the second SD...
7. A 500mm super tele to go with it.....

RonHendriks1966 · 05-19-2011, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by Steve Beswick

Wow - how awful. ONLY 75 recorded images per minute. I bet you are missing a ton of keepers with that pathetically slow camera. It's amazing to think that the great photographers of the past often didn't shoot that many frames per week, and yet here you are, shooting that many per minute. I can't even begin to imagine the endless volumes of incredible shots you have taken with such a camera. Imagine if you could work 8 times faster!

Well it is not only having a faster camera in fps and speed off image-processing. (tracking AF was on my mind as well). Mainly you can't use your camera in the time it is busy with it's processing making it a dead tool in your hands. Something that you also see with 645D that takes at least 4 seconds for one picture to review it.

So a new body with a 24 megapixel sensor, and maybe who knows even a 16-bit (for all that extra DR) image-engine really needs a faster processor.

cats_five · 05-19-2011, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by JohnBee

Better AF - (much better would be great) not a problem for me but I use a K7 - does that have the same problems as the K5 allegedly does?
Improved video mode - higher FPS, manual control and AF not bothered
Faster FPS - (8-10 would be a serious upgrade imo.) not bothered
Flash synch revision? - (seems like a big deal for the flashers)
Bigger body - (I'd like a little more meat in hand anyways) no thanks
True NR: OFF - (oh how sweet that would be) I shot RAW...
Tethering - (for the buffs but definitely welcomed) yes please
Dual SD - (but not stacked, that's just too Nikonian) maybe
Pano assist in LV - (overlapping frames between shots) not bothered
AF bracketing - (heaven for the macro kids) not bothered
*Mirrorless stills - (hybrid between video mode and stills) not bothered
Better ISO - (better is better right) yes please
Better DR - (why the hell not) yes please
More color depth - (for bragging rights) not a bragger!
Slightly less AA filter - (would love to get just a liiiitle closer to those pixels I shot RAW...
64-bit codec for windows - and I want it now, right now, not in 2 years time

My thoughts

stormcloud · 05-19-2011, 03:36 AM

wont our glass have issues with a 24mp? thats alot of mp for glass designed with far less in mind

OJGoreng · 05-19-2011, 04:00 AM - **1 Like**

If we're taking feature orders, I have one...

. Better. Support. For. Old. Lenses. Please. Use of the same bayonet doesn't equate compatibility.

I have no appreciable knowledge about the inner workings of a DSLR, but somehow I fail to understand why, for instance, you can't use the TAv mode with an old lens. I realise the camera doesn't know what the aperture value is, but can't it be made so that you can simply tell the camera? I realise that leaves more room for user error (accidentally forgetting to tell the camera you've changed the aperture) and consequently bad reviews on the internet, but that can't be the only reason?
Also, I've never fully understood why my K100 (and presumably my k-5, but I haven't tried) can close the aperture of an M-lens with the preview function, but it can't in shooting mode. I understand how that would involve way more precision to the mechanism and consequently an increase in price, but hey, and eventual k-3 would be more expensive anyway. It would be a selling point for me.

gaddigad · 05-19-2011, 04:13 AM

Originally posted by pinholecam

The K5 is already a very good camera.
If Pentax can work on the problems of the overall system, that would be much better :

1. Better AF (esp. AF-C)
2. Better MF focus confirm
3. Better PTTL and better wireless commander (radio control??)
4. More lenses (esp. primes)
5. Tweakable HDR mode
6. Focus stacking
7. AF in video

I would also add:

- Better colour rendition (gamut): Weaker blues (and magentas), more cyan skys..
- Better texture rendition, weaker AA, weaker NR at low iso.

05-18-2011, 11:37 PM	#54
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	On the subject of long Pentax tele's, there is an interesting inconsistency between this list of lenses which are explicitly discontinued in the Japanese market: Interchangeable Lenses (Models discontinued in the Japanese market) : Digital Cameras : Products : PENTAX and this list of current Pentax lenses: Interchangeable Lenses : Digital Cameras : Products : PENTAX On the Japan page, they explicitly say the FA 300 and the FA 600 are discontinued. On the non-Japan page, they don't explicity declare those lenses un-available. Which suggest that there may be two Pentax super-tele-lenses available outside Japan: the smc PENTAX-FA300mm F2.8 ED [IF] and the smc PENTAX-FA600mm F4ED. Furthermore, even on the Japan-discontinued lense page the 600mm f4 is listed as 'Order Only'. Pic related. So it seems to me that if you order direct from Pentax JP, one might be able to get ahold of at least a new FA 600..., and maybe even a FA 300 2.8. Perhaps.

05-19-2011, 02:05 AM	#57
cats_five Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 835	Originally posted by JohnBee Better AF - (much better would be great) not a problem for me but I use a K7 - does that have the same problems as the K5 allegedly does? Improved video mode - higher FPS, manual control and AF not bothered Faster FPS - (8-10 would be a serious upgrade imo.) not bothered Flash synch revision? - (seems like a big deal for the flashers) Bigger body - (I'd like a little more meat in hand anyways) no thanks True NR: OFF - (oh how sweet that would be) I shot RAW... Tethering - (for the buffs but definitely welcomed) yes please Dual SD - (but not stacked, that's just too Nikonian) maybe Pano assist in LV - (overlapping frames between shots) not bothered AF bracketing - (heaven for the macro kids) not bothered Mirrorless stills - (hybrid between video mode and stills) not bothered Better ISO - (better is better right) yes please Better DR - (why the hell not) yes please More color depth - (for bragging rights) not a bragger! Slightly less AA filter - (would love to get just a liiiitle closer to those pixels I shot RAW... 64-bit codec for windows - and I want it now, right now, not in 2 years time My thoughts Last edited by cats_five; 05-19-2011 at 06:50 AM. Reason: Code should ahve been codec*

05-19-2011, 04:00 AM - 1 Like	#59
OJGoreng Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Amsterdam Photos: Gallery Posts: 197	If we're taking feature orders, I have one.... Better. Support. For. Old. Lenses. Please. Use of the same bayonet doesn't equate compatibility. I have no appreciable knowledge about the inner workings of a DSLR, but somehow I fail to understand why, for instance, you can't use the TAv mode with an old lens. I realise the camera doesn't know what the aperture value is, but can't it be made so that you can simply tell the camera? I realise that leaves more room for user error (accidentally forgetting to tell the camera you've changed the aperture) and consequently bad reviews on the internet, but that can't be the only reason? Also, I've never fully understood why my K100 (and presumably my k-5, but I haven't tried) can close the aperture of an M-lens with the preview function, but it can't in shooting mode. I understand how that would involve way more precision to the mechanism and consequently an increase in price, but hey, and eventual k-3 would be more expensive anyway. It would be a selling point for me.

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05-18-2011, 02:26 PM	#46
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by Emacs What are you laughing about? The diffraction has some serious impact on the IQ. It would be worse in the 24mp sensor and f8 than on the 16mp one with the same f8 aperture. It seems to be Sony marketing bullshit who try to justify stoppping FF production for their customers (more mps to see more abberations LOL) You need to send Sony an e-mail and explain the whole "diffraction" thing. I bet they haven't even though about it yet. They might hire you as a consultant. Sony does seem to know a thing or two about making high quality sensors. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the 24MP sensor will have better IQ that the 16MP. Sony is saving their best sensor for their flagship APS-C body. By Spring 2012 Canon/Nikon/Sony will all have 20+MP APS-C bodies announced or shipping. The question is - What will Pentax be doing?

05-18-2011, 04:06 PM	#47
jaieger Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 586	Originally posted by yeatzee graduation present? (class of 2012 ) K-5 was mine, 2011

05-18-2011, 07:36 PM	#48
Brooke Meyer Guest	Originally posted by twitch After the K-5 debarcle I don't think I'd be buying a K-3 in the first couple of months of its production. I hate debarcles, you have to scrape the hull.

05-18-2011, 09:49 PM	#49
rvannatta Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Apiary, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,181	Sheesh, I'm still trying to get used to using the K5. I used my K2 for 20 years. A K3 or K4 or what ever they call it is going to have to be really good to get my attention. I haven't been buying every model..--- the k5 is my 3rd one.. I had an ISTD, a K10 and now the K5. I'll still be learning how to use the K5 by next year..... While I recognize they need to refresh their product line regularly, I think the technology is stable enough that routine annual model changes aren't going t suck me in. the K5 is just too good..... and I still haven't mastered half the things it does.....

05-18-2011, 10:42 PM - 3 Likes	#50
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 ... This is my biggest thing to improve with K-5. It is deadt slow in handling the amount of data in processing and not using UHS-I speed in writing. I did a search for flipping over to Canon and buy a 1D. The diffenrence is amazing in speed (if you'r willing to pay for that udma-card). With 1D you can make in jpg 600 pictures in a minute and with K-5 you go up to 106 (but actually you only manage to run 75 pictures since you are ending with a full buffer). When you set all lenscorrections on and make jpg's you van make after full buffer every 3 seconds a picture and the rest is just work for processing and that is seriously not acceptable for future camera's. Speedwise it needs at least a doubling in speed but I would like even to quadruple it. ... Wow - how awful. ONLY 75 recorded images per minute. I bet you are missing a ton of keepers with that pathetically slow camera. It's amazing to think that the great photographers of the past often didn't shoot that many frames per week, and yet here you are, shooting that many per minute. I can't even begin to imagine the endless volumes of incredible shots you have taken with such a camera. Imagine if you could work 8 times faster! Time to trash that Pentax and run out and buy a Canon!

05-18-2011, 10:56 PM	#51
GordonZA Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Planet Earth Photos: Albums Posts: 351	Keeping the technology up to date with regards the bodies is all wonderful... but for a bird photographer like myself the lack of anything over 300mm in the lens line up is becoming unnaceptable. Pentax please go and have your ears waxed, get new glasses and F**** read and listen to what your customers are telling you!! YOOHOO... 500mm DA* F4.5 ED[IF] SDM please!!!!!! (to go with the rumoured new body....) I write bird books and need this equipment to get material for those books, I have the money to buy it... I don't want to get the Sigma... I want a Pentax lens and NO I do not want to spend on second hand glass. Again, new camera bodies are great but I will change my system soon if nothing is done with regards super tele's. My two cents worth.

05-18-2011, 11:27 PM	#52
garyk Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 488	GordonZA, sounds like you are in a great position to shoot wonderful bird pics. If you travel and write why do you stay with Pentax and why do you not like Sigma. Looks like you are missing a chance of a lifetime. For a piece of glass that is easily had elsewhere. Just curious.

05-18-2011, 11:33 PM	#53
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by Ash How much more high ISO performance do we need? (Yes, I know we want clean ISO gazillion shots... but I can say my best images are ones at ISO 80, not at 6400+ ) But what if you could have the same noise performance and close to the same DR that you have at ISO 80, but at ISO 400? 800? Or 1600? When the ISO ceiling bumps, it doesn't mean you have to shoot at that ceiling to see the benefits. Everything else down below gets cleaner, and you start to forget about the old days when you'd occasionally find yourself shutter-speed limited. .

05-19-2011, 12:21 AM	#55
GordonZA Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Planet Earth Photos: Albums Posts: 351	Originally posted by garyk GordonZA, sounds like you are in a great position to shoot wonderful bird pics. If you travel and write why do you stay with Pentax and why do you not like Sigma. Looks like you are missing a chance of a lifetime. For a piece of glass that is easily had elsewhere. Just curious. Simple, I LOVE Pentax!! Tried Canon bodies and hated them. Nikon is pretty good but I just happen to love the Pentax bodies and glass... just wish that we had a super tele available new... For the new camera, my wishlist: 1. Faster AF in continuous 2. High noise free ISO is very usefull 3. More FPS won't hurt those of us that use it... birds coming in to land, etc 4. Even quieter shutter... (try photographing an elephant right next to your hide, your shutter goes off and the elephant stops eating and looks at the hide... ) 5. Higher MP is fine so long as there is no compromise to speed. 6. Larger buffer and faster write speeds, even a dual SD system with writing even numbered photos to one SD and odd numbered pics to the second SD... 7. A 500mm super tele to go with it.....

05-19-2011, 01:12 AM	#56
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Steve Beswick Wow - how awful. ONLY 75 recorded images per minute. I bet you are missing a ton of keepers with that pathetically slow camera. It's amazing to think that the great photographers of the past often didn't shoot that many frames per week, and yet here you are, shooting that many per minute. I can't even begin to imagine the endless volumes of incredible shots you have taken with such a camera. Imagine if you could work 8 times faster! Well it is not only having a faster camera in fps and speed off image-processing. (tracking AF was on my mind as well). Mainly you can't use your camera in the time it is busy with it's processing making it a dead tool in your hands. Something that you also see with 645D that takes at least 4 seconds for one picture to review it. So a new body with a 24 megapixel sensor, and maybe who knows even a 16-bit (for all that extra DR) image-engine really needs a faster processor.

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05-19-2011, 03:36 AM	#58
stormcloud Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 232	wont our glass have issues with a 24mp? thats alot of mp for glass designed with far less in mind

05-19-2011, 04:13 AM	#60
gaddigad Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 48	Originally posted by pinholecam The K5 is already a very good camera. If Pentax can work on the problems of the overall system, that would be much better : 1. Better AF (esp. AF-C) 2. Better MF focus confirm 3. Better PTTL and better wireless commander (radio control??) 4. More lenses (esp. primes) 5. Tweakable HDR mode 6. Focus stacking 7. AF in video I would also add: - Better colour rendition (gamut): Weaker blues (and magentas), more cyan skys.. - Better texture rendition, weaker AA, weaker NR at low iso.