K-3 speculation

fikkser · 06-07-2012, 02:34 AM

The processing power is enough for PP in a penom 1100t, I think other components will fall short before it does. I got a 1090t x6 clocked at around 3,6ghz paired with 8gb 1600mhz ram and an ssd. I've never had any lag in lightroom etc. The CPU load has never been close to 100%, that would be insane.

And btw, the latest Opteron based on Bulldozer gives the most performance per watt if I remember correctly. The new AMD server cpus are actually very good.

gazonk · 06-07-2012, 03:37 AM

Originally posted by fikkser

The new AMD server cpus are actually very good.

Hmm, I think we tested that and found that Bulldozer was extremely disappointing? Or has newer and better versions of it been released in the last few months?

RonHendriks1966 · 06-07-2012, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

But I've read that the Phenom II Black 1100 is almost closing the gap, so maybe we should test again.

Btw. are you using a 64 bit OS?

Basicly I'm not a gamer and use the pc only for toying around with pictures and stuff.

I run Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit.

When I look at cpu use, it almost never runs on 100 %, so I didn't even overclock them.

thibs · 06-07-2012, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

Hmm, I think we tested that and found that Bulldozer was extremely disappointing? Or has newer and better versions of it been released in the last few months?

Trinity (Piledriver cores) are OK on a speed vs power POV.
Raw speed though will stay at Intel for now. clearly.

A laptop with OK gpu (no discreet one) will be Amd trinity base though.

ElJamoquio · 06-07-2012, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

You bought the wrong processor. AMD has been helplessly left behind for 6 years now.

When I checked, the intel processors were many hundreds of dollars more expensive. I put that money into RAM and SSD. I believe I have a faster computer for it but who knows.

gazonk · 06-07-2012, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

When I checked, the intel processors were many hundreds of dollars more expensive. I put that money into RAM and SSD. I believe I have a faster computer for it but who knows.

I'm a bit spoiled here at work, I work with servers that have 12 i7 cores and 64GB RAM...

D0n · 06-07-2012, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

When I checked, the intel processors were many hundreds of dollars more expensive. I put that money into RAM and SSD. I believe I have a faster computer for it but who knows.

being a machead, I donut worry about processor choices much, but I am 100% certain that maxing out the ram and installing the biggest fasted drive that fits DOES improve performance... and is likely the biggest bang for your buck....

truth is, every mac I buy, I buy the ram and hd stuff and go home and upgrade the sucker the first day... I throw the new hd in an external enclosure, use carbon copy cloner to clone the internal hd... install the new ram, update the software then swap out the new hd for the stock one and reboot... before even using my new macs...

Last edited by D0n; 06-07-2012 at 07:52 AM.

mikemike · 06-07-2012, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Well I run AMD 6 core processor, but no ssd and 16GB ram and I found that in LR handling files from 645D where slow. When opened and clicked too 1:1 pixelpeeping, it took 9 seconds to go from one to the next with fully opening and loading.

I know I can make my system at least twice as fast, but even then it will be slow.

It needs to stream the file off of your disk. I would say go for an SSD to get faster reads but since we are talking about 645D files, you need abundant space therefore you should use traditional hard drives in a RAID configuration RAID 1 (mirroring 2x read, 1x write, 1x capacity, and 1 drive fault tolerance) or 0 (striping 2x read, 2x write, 2x capacity, but no fault tolerance) will give you up to double your read speed and RAID 1 will give you backup peace of mind. If you can afford it, since you have a $15,000 camera I am guessing you probably can, go for a pair of WD Velociraptor 1 TB ($300 each) hard drives in RAID 1. Another interesting option you might want to consider, especially if you have more than 1 TB of photos you is that you could get 4 7200 RPM drives and hook them up in a RAID 10 configuration which means that you are striping data over 2 mirrored arrays therefore you get 4x read performance and 2x write performance, 2x capacity and still have 1 drive fault tolerance. If you do that you want to make sure that you use a decent hard drive because they need to work in sync so you will still end up spending ~$125 per TB on the disks.

Winder · 06-07-2012, 09:49 AM

The biggest bottle neck I have right now is the card reader or USB port. I hope the new camera has USB 3.0 support. I can always buy a 3.0 card reader, but the one built into my PC is 2.0. Maybe we will get Ethernet built into the K-3...... I know... not going to happen

fikkser · 06-08-2012, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by Winder

The biggest bottle neck I have right now is the card reader or USB port. I hope the new camera has USB 3.0 support. I can always buy a 3.0 card reader, but the one built into my PC is 2.0. Maybe we will get Ethernet built into the K-3...... I know... not going to happen

Yea, next Pentax dslr needs wifi, it must have wifi. wired transfers are stone age. With wifi you could hook it up with your phone and stream it do your NAS/computer or whatever. Would be handy if the camera had like 32gb of fast memory built in.

When will we see Pentax cameras with a real OS? Think of a camera with a computer/tablet like OS, you could hook it up wirelessly with a computer/phone/tablet for easy navigation when you are photo editing, controlling the camera, uploading pictures to pentaxforums, watching the latest episode of oprah, playing angry birds etc. A camera with no limitations, you could use it for anything without being dependent on other technology.

adpo · 06-08-2012, 02:44 AM

Originally posted by fikkser

Yea, next Pentax dslr needs wifi, it must have wifi. wired transfers are stone age. With wifi you could hook it up with your phone and stream it do your NAS/computer or whatever. Would be handy if the camera had like 32gb of fast memory built in.

the issue with integrating wifi into a camera is that you still make compromises. either you give up speed or you give up small size and risk high operating tempertures. an ethernet connection would generate much less heat and have a hundred if not a thousand times the throughput of a wireless connection.

Originally posted by fikkser

When will we see Pentax cameras with a real OS? Think of a camera with a computer/tablet like OS, you could hook it up wirelessly with a computer/phone/tablet for easy navigation when you are photo editing, controlling the camera, uploading pictures to pentaxforums, watching the latest episode of oprah, playing angry birds etc. A camera with no limitations, you could use it for anything without being dependent on other technology.

they already have these, although not made by pentax. its called a "smartphone", although its not particularly smart and not particularly amazing at doing anything, but manages to do everything adequately enough. i'd much rather have a pentax-built camera dedicated to stills (the k-5 is a good example of this) than a strange conglomerate of gizmos with all the compromises the engineers end up having to make.

Originally posted by Winder

Maybe we will get Ethernet built into the K-3...... I know... not going to happen

a man can dream, can't he? tethering over ethernet would be such a lovely dream, especially in studio....

mikemike · 06-08-2012, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by fikkser

When will we see Pentax cameras with a real OS? Think of a camera with a computer/tablet like OS, you could hook it up wirelessly with a computer/phone/tablet for easy navigation when you are photo editing, controlling the camera, uploading pictures to pentaxforums, watching the latest episode of oprah, playing angry birds etc. A camera with no limitations, you could use it for anything without being dependent on other technology.

What would be bad about that is that you would probably have a much longer boot time for your camera than you have now. The more subsystems and drivers and junk that needs to get loaded and initialized (especially if you let 3rd party services run in the background and autostart), the longer it will take to go from off to on and the more likely you will miss a shot.

rawr · 06-08-2012, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by fikkser

When will we see Pentax cameras with a real OS? Think of a camera with a computer/tablet like OS, you could hook it up wirelessly with a computer/phone/tablet

Yeah. And with a real computer/tablet OS we could all enjoy malware, spyware, viruses, Stuxnet/Duqu/Flame etc too, as well as the likes of Apple, Google and Facebook continuously peeking over our shoulders. Be careful what you wish for.

D0n · 06-08-2012, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by rawr

Yeah. And with a real computer/tablet OS we could all enjoy malware, spyware, viruses, Stuxnet/Duqu/Flame etc too, as well as the likes of Apple, Google and Facebook continuously peeking over our shoulders. Be careful what you wish for.

the kid at the corner photo print shop can already take your name address, and using the exif info on your memory cards and the images you took... to figure out where you live, what equipment you own, possible what your routines are depending on what you photo and when, and get his buddies to rob your house...

rawr · 06-08-2012, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by D0n

the kid at the corner photo print shop can already ...

No they can't. All I leave is my phone number and the JPGs I take to print have all but the basic EXIF taken out, and there is rarely anything else revealing in my photos of my geography or habits, and certainly not enough to provide any clues to burglars.

I also don't have an Android or Apple phone. By design, they leak information like a sieve.

Making your camera OS a kitchen-sink of functionality may add convenience but it will come at a big price of performance, reliability and security.

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06-07-2012, 02:34 AM	#601
fikkser Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Borlänge, Sweden Posts: 373	The processing power is enough for PP in a penom 1100t, I think other components will fall short before it does. I got a 1090t x6 clocked at around 3,6ghz paired with 8gb 1600mhz ram and an ssd. I've never had any lag in lightroom etc. The CPU load has never been close to 100%, that would be insane. And btw, the latest Opteron based on Bulldozer gives the most performance per watt if I remember correctly. The new AMD server cpus are actually very good.

06-07-2012, 03:37 AM	#602
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by fikkser The new AMD server cpus are actually very good. Hmm, I think we tested that and found that Bulldozer was extremely disappointing? Or has newer and better versions of it been released in the last few months?

06-07-2012, 04:23 AM	#603
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by gazonk But I've read that the Phenom II Black 1100 is almost closing the gap, so maybe we should test again. Btw. are you using a 64 bit OS? Basicly I'm not a gamer and use the pc only for toying around with pictures and stuff. I run Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit. When I look at cpu use, it almost never runs on 100 %, so I didn't even overclock them.

06-07-2012, 07:26 AM	#604
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by gazonk Hmm, I think we tested that and found that Bulldozer was extremely disappointing? Or has newer and better versions of it been released in the last few months? Trinity (Piledriver cores) are OK on a speed vs power POV. Raw speed though will stay at Intel for now. clearly. A laptop with OK gpu (no discreet one) will be Amd trinity base though.

06-07-2012, 07:39 AM	#605
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by gazonk You bought the wrong processor. AMD has been helplessly left behind for 6 years now. When I checked, the intel processors were many hundreds of dollars more expensive. I put that money into RAM and SSD. I believe I have a faster computer for it but who knows.

06-07-2012, 07:44 AM	#606
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by ElJamoquio When I checked, the intel processors were many hundreds of dollars more expensive. I put that money into RAM and SSD. I believe I have a faster computer for it but who knows. I'm a bit spoiled here at work, I work with servers that have 12 i7 cores and 64GB RAM...

06-07-2012, 07:44 AM	#607
D0n Banned Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 530	Originally posted by ElJamoquio When I checked, the intel processors were many hundreds of dollars more expensive. I put that money into RAM and SSD. I believe I have a faster computer for it but who knows. being a machead, I donut worry about processor choices much, but I am 100% certain that maxing out the ram and installing the biggest fasted drive that fits DOES improve performance... and is likely the biggest bang for your buck.... truth is, every mac I buy, I buy the ram and hd stuff and go home and upgrade the sucker the first day... I throw the new hd in an external enclosure, use carbon copy cloner to clone the internal hd... install the new ram, update the software then swap out the new hd for the stock one and reboot... before even using my new macs... Last edited by D0n; 06-07-2012 at 07:52 AM.

06-07-2012, 07:46 AM	#608
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Well I run AMD 6 core processor, but no ssd and 16GB ram and I found that in LR handling files from 645D where slow. When opened and clicked too 1:1 pixelpeeping, it took 9 seconds to go from one to the next with fully opening and loading. I know I can make my system at least twice as fast, but even then it will be slow. It needs to stream the file off of your disk. I would say go for an SSD to get faster reads but since we are talking about 645D files, you need abundant space therefore you should use traditional hard drives in a RAID configuration RAID 1 (mirroring 2x read, 1x write, 1x capacity, and 1 drive fault tolerance) or 0 (striping 2x read, 2x write, 2x capacity, but no fault tolerance) will give you up to double your read speed and RAID 1 will give you backup peace of mind. If you can afford it, since you have a $15,000 camera I am guessing you probably can, go for a pair of WD Velociraptor 1 TB ($300 each) hard drives in RAID 1. Another interesting option you might want to consider, especially if you have more than 1 TB of photos you is that you could get 4 7200 RPM drives and hook them up in a RAID 10 configuration which means that you are striping data over 2 mirrored arrays therefore you get 4x read performance and 2x write performance, 2x capacity and still have 1 drive fault tolerance. If you do that you want to make sure that you use a decent hard drive because they need to work in sync so you will still end up spending ~$125 per TB on the disks.

06-07-2012, 09:49 AM	#609
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	The biggest bottle neck I have right now is the card reader or USB port. I hope the new camera has USB 3.0 support. I can always buy a 3.0 card reader, but the one built into my PC is 2.0. Maybe we will get Ethernet built into the K-3...... I know... not going to happen

06-08-2012, 02:01 AM	#610
fikkser Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Borlänge, Sweden Posts: 373	Originally posted by Winder The biggest bottle neck I have right now is the card reader or USB port. I hope the new camera has USB 3.0 support. I can always buy a 3.0 card reader, but the one built into my PC is 2.0. Maybe we will get Ethernet built into the K-3...... I know... not going to happen Yea, next Pentax dslr needs wifi, it must have wifi. wired transfers are stone age. With wifi you could hook it up with your phone and stream it do your NAS/computer or whatever. Would be handy if the camera had like 32gb of fast memory built in. When will we see Pentax cameras with a real OS? Think of a camera with a computer/tablet like OS, you could hook it up wirelessly with a computer/phone/tablet for easy navigation when you are photo editing, controlling the camera, uploading pictures to pentaxforums, watching the latest episode of oprah, playing angry birds etc. A camera with no limitations, you could use it for anything without being dependent on other technology.

06-08-2012, 02:44 AM	#611
adpo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery Posts: 888	Originally posted by fikkser Yea, next Pentax dslr needs wifi, it must have wifi. wired transfers are stone age. With wifi you could hook it up with your phone and stream it do your NAS/computer or whatever. Would be handy if the camera had like 32gb of fast memory built in. the issue with integrating wifi into a camera is that you still make compromises. either you give up speed or you give up small size and risk high operating tempertures. an ethernet connection would generate much less heat and have a hundred if not a thousand times the throughput of a wireless connection. Originally posted by fikkser When will we see Pentax cameras with a real OS? Think of a camera with a computer/tablet like OS, you could hook it up wirelessly with a computer/phone/tablet for easy navigation when you are photo editing, controlling the camera, uploading pictures to pentaxforums, watching the latest episode of oprah, playing angry birds etc. A camera with no limitations, you could use it for anything without being dependent on other technology. they already have these, although not made by pentax. its called a "smartphone", although its not particularly smart and not particularly amazing at doing anything, but manages to do everything adequately enough. i'd much rather have a pentax-built camera dedicated to stills (the k-5 is a good example of this) than a strange conglomerate of gizmos with all the compromises the engineers end up having to make. Originally posted by Winder Maybe we will get Ethernet built into the K-3...... I know... not going to happen a man can dream, can't he? tethering over ethernet would be such a lovely dream, especially in studio....

06-08-2012, 06:44 AM	#612
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	Originally posted by fikkser When will we see Pentax cameras with a real OS? Think of a camera with a computer/tablet like OS, you could hook it up wirelessly with a computer/phone/tablet for easy navigation when you are photo editing, controlling the camera, uploading pictures to pentaxforums, watching the latest episode of oprah, playing angry birds etc. A camera with no limitations, you could use it for anything without being dependent on other technology. What would be bad about that is that you would probably have a much longer boot time for your camera than you have now. The more subsystems and drivers and junk that needs to get loaded and initialized (especially if you let 3rd party services run in the background and autostart), the longer it will take to go from off to on and the more likely you will miss a shot.

06-08-2012, 07:40 AM	#613
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by fikkser When will we see Pentax cameras with a real OS? Think of a camera with a computer/tablet like OS, you could hook it up wirelessly with a computer/phone/tablet Yeah. And with a real computer/tablet OS we could all enjoy malware, spyware, viruses, Stuxnet/Duqu/Flame etc too, as well as the likes of Apple, Google and Facebook continuously peeking over our shoulders. Be careful what you wish for.

06-08-2012, 07:43 AM	#614
D0n Banned Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 530	Originally posted by rawr Yeah. And with a real computer/tablet OS we could all enjoy malware, spyware, viruses, Stuxnet/Duqu/Flame etc too, as well as the likes of Apple, Google and Facebook continuously peeking over our shoulders. Be careful what you wish for. the kid at the corner photo print shop can already take your name address, and using the exif info on your memory cards and the images you took... to figure out where you live, what equipment you own, possible what your routines are depending on what you photo and when, and get his buddies to rob your house...

06-08-2012, 08:29 PM	#615
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by D0n the kid at the corner photo print shop can already ... No they can't. All I leave is my phone number and the JPGs I take to print have all but the basic EXIF taken out, and there is rarely anything else revealing in my photos of my geography or habits, and certainly not enough to provide any clues to burglars. I also don't have an Android or Apple phone. By design, they leak information like a sieve. Making your camera OS a kitchen-sink of functionality may add convenience but it will come at a big price of performance, reliability and security.