K-3 speculation

Winder · 02-20-2013, 11:48 AM

Now we have the Toshiba 24MP APS-C sensor which appears to be a slightly better sensor than the 16MP Sony. The D5200 with the Toshiba 24MP scores slightly better than the K-5 with 16MP. Even if noise is equal the 24MP will show noise as a finer "grain" than the 16MP and result in a more pleasing print.

Sony is bringing a new 20MP sensor out in the A58 and claims it will be the new high ISO king. Is 20MP enough of a jump over 16MP for people to care?

NickLarsson · 02-20-2013, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Winder

Is 20MP enough of a jump over 16MP for people to care?

I can't believe the only difference between the K-5 II and the K-3 is a new sensor with 4 Mpx more. There must be something else.

ogl · 02-20-2013, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by NickLarsson

I can't believe the only difference between the K-5 II and the K-3 is a new sensor with 4 Mpx more. There must be something else.

I think that 20 MP sensor is not for TOP-cameras. For K-30's replacement.

Winder · 02-20-2013, 02:25 PM

I hope that Sony has a newer version of the 24MP sensor ready to be released in the NEX-7 replacement, and I hope that is the senor we see in the K-3 (minus the AA filter). For the K-5 Pentax went from 14MP to 16MP so it is more than possible that we only see a 4MP increase in the next body. The 20MP might be a full stop better than the 16MP... or more.

If Pentax can give you 1 full stop improvement is 20MP enough?

goubejp · 02-20-2013, 02:58 PM

My experience in bird shooting is that detail at the pixel level decrease fast when iso is above 400 (NR is off of course). 400 iso is not that much when using long focals on moving birds. So 20 Mpix + 1 full stop better for signal/noise ratio is a great improvement...

RonHendriks1966 · 02-20-2013, 03:39 PM

So it is coming:

Japanese magazine Nippon Camera predictions for 2013 | Photo Rumors

**monochrome** · 02-20-2013, 03:57 PM

So PhotoRumors, contrary to the speculation in this thread, specualtes K3 = FF?

I would have guessed K-3 = semi-pro APSc (K10 . K20 > new body > K-7 > K-5 > (K-3)

FF is some other naming convention such as L1-D.

Kunzite · 02-20-2013, 04:22 PM

Contrary to information from Pentax Japan, which strongly suggest a FF is nowhere near ready to market. I wouldn't take them too seriously.

RonHendriks1966 · 02-20-2013, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Contrary to information from Pentax Japan, which strongly suggest a FF is nowhere near ready to market. I wouldn't take them too seriously.

Well we still have two months to go before this was a hoax

cfraz · 02-20-2013, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Contrary to information from Pentax Japan, which strongly suggest a FF is nowhere near ready to market. I wouldn't take them too seriously.

And... The article also shows a 645d II, despite Pentax execs implying there is no 645 D update planned because of little consumer request*. You would think people would at least consider public statements from Pentax before making their predictions.

* That the Pentax execs could say this with a straight face while there exists multiple D800 vs 645D comparisons in the blogosphere saying precisely the opposite is another, but equally unbelievable matter.

Winder · 02-20-2013, 08:24 PM

The latest "rumored" specs for the Canon 7DII are 24MP. Updated Canon EOS 7D Mark II specifications | Photo Rumors

Does this affect Pentax's decision? Pentax probably has had a pretty good idea what Canon is going to do. Will they play the MP game or go for lower noise and better DR?

Canon has been falling behind on the sensor technology front, so I'm pretty sure the 24MP Sony or Toshiba would out perform the smaller Canon 24MP sensor.

Canons Specs include:
61 AF Points
GPS & Wifi
24.1mp APS-C Sensor
ISO Performance to get close to the 5D3
$2199

If Pentax implements a 51+/- AF points, GPS, WiFi, ISO that matches the 5D3 for $2,000 it would leave plenty of room for the current K-5II to sell on the market.

Would Pentax users buy this with the D600 and 6D on the market at such a close price point?

**Ash** · 02-20-2013, 08:42 PM

Pretty happy with Sony sensors thus far. I have found their first and second generation CCD sensors magnificent and even finer in rendition to the Samsung 14Mp CMOS sensor especially at ISO 100-800.

Yeah, a 20-24Mp would be one side of the upgrade in the next generation of camera, but there should be more important aspects that determine whether photographers will go for it - AF performance, P-TTL accuracy, good high ISO rendition, etc.

I also have my doubts that the K-3 will be a FF. But I have been wrong before, and it would be a pleasant surprise (albeit probably a little too quick a development from Ricoh).

mee · 02-20-2013, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by NickLarsson

I can't believe the only difference between the K-5 II and the K-3 is a new sensor with 4 Mpx more. There must be something else.

The interview on the front page with the Pentax reps state their goal with the K5 II was in 'high sensitivity' (low light).. and their next step is improving the AF

So expect a much improved AF on top of a larger pixel count for sure.

And it seems obvious you'll also get improved video abilities and other gizmos such as the focus peaking as seen in the K-30 and probably a larger buffer. The K5 II was a rush job.. expect a more robust feature set on the K-3. Also expect APS-C (that one is for our lovingly and always FF optimistic ogl hehe) on this body.

**Ash** · 02-20-2013, 08:57 PM

And I personally wouldn't buy either the D600 or 6D. I'd stick with my K-5 classic until Ricoh are ready for their FF camera to be released.

ElJamoquio · 02-20-2013, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by cfraz

* That the Pentax execs could say this with a straight face while there exists multiple D800 vs 645D comparisons in the blogosphere saying precisely the opposite is another, but equally unbelievable matter.

No one is requesting a new 645D, because they already have a D800?

02-20-2013, 03:39 PM	#981
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	April 2013 So it is coming: Japanese magazine Nippon Camera predictions for 2013 \| Photo Rumors

02-20-2013, 08:24 PM	#986
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	The latest "rumored" specs for the Canon 7DII are 24MP. Updated Canon EOS 7D Mark II specifications \| Photo Rumors Does this affect Pentax's decision? Pentax probably has had a pretty good idea what Canon is going to do. Will they play the MP game or go for lower noise and better DR? Canon has been falling behind on the sensor technology front, so I'm pretty sure the 24MP Sony or Toshiba would out perform the smaller Canon 24MP sensor. Canons Specs include: 61 AF Points GPS & Wifi 24.1mp APS-C Sensor ISO Performance to get close to the 5D3 $2199 If Pentax implements a 51+/- AF points, GPS, WiFi, ISO that matches the 5D3 for $2,000 it would leave plenty of room for the current K-5II to sell on the market. Would Pentax users buy this with the D600 and 6D on the market at such a close price point? Last edited by Winder; 02-20-2013 at 08:30 PM.

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02-20-2013, 11:48 AM	#976
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Now we have the Toshiba 24MP APS-C sensor which appears to be a slightly better sensor than the 16MP Sony. The D5200 with the Toshiba 24MP scores slightly better than the K-5 with 16MP. Even if noise is equal the 24MP will show noise as a finer "grain" than the 16MP and result in a more pleasing print. Sony is bringing a new 20MP sensor out in the A58 and claims it will be the new high ISO king. Is 20MP enough of a jump over 16MP for people to care?

02-20-2013, 12:13 PM	#977
NickLarsson Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,390	Originally posted by Winder Is 20MP enough of a jump over 16MP for people to care? I can't believe the only difference between the K-5 II and the K-3 is a new sensor with 4 Mpx more. There must be something else.

02-20-2013, 12:16 PM	#978
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by NickLarsson I can't believe the only difference between the K-5 II and the K-3 is a new sensor with 4 Mpx more. There must be something else. I think that 20 MP sensor is not for TOP-cameras. For K-30's replacement.

02-20-2013, 02:25 PM	#979
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	I hope that Sony has a newer version of the 24MP sensor ready to be released in the NEX-7 replacement, and I hope that is the senor we see in the K-3 (minus the AA filter). For the K-5 Pentax went from 14MP to 16MP so it is more than possible that we only see a 4MP increase in the next body. The 20MP might be a full stop better than the 16MP... or more. If Pentax can give you 1 full stop improvement is 20MP enough?

02-20-2013, 02:58 PM	#980
goubejp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: France Photos: Albums Posts: 804	My experience in bird shooting is that detail at the pixel level decrease fast when iso is above 400 (NR is off of course). 400 iso is not that much when using long focals on moving birds. So 20 Mpix + 1 full stop better for signal/noise ratio is a great improvement...

02-20-2013, 03:57 PM	#982
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	So PhotoRumors, contrary to the speculation in this thread, specualtes K3 = FF? I would have guessed K-3 = semi-pro APSc (K10 . K20 > new body > K-7 > K-5 > (K-3) FF is some other naming convention such as L1-D.

02-20-2013, 04:22 PM	#983
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Contrary to information from Pentax Japan, which strongly suggest a FF is nowhere near ready to market. I wouldn't take them too seriously.

02-20-2013, 04:39 PM	#984
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Kunzite Contrary to information from Pentax Japan, which strongly suggest a FF is nowhere near ready to market. I wouldn't take them too seriously. Well we still have two months to go before this was a hoax

02-20-2013, 04:50 PM	#985
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	Originally posted by Kunzite Contrary to information from Pentax Japan, which strongly suggest a FF is nowhere near ready to market. I wouldn't take them too seriously. And... The article also shows a 645d II, despite Pentax execs implying there is no 645 D update planned because of little consumer request. You would think people would at least consider public statements from Pentax before making their predictions. That the Pentax execs could say this with a straight face while there exists multiple D800 vs 645D comparisons in the blogosphere saying precisely the opposite is another, but equally unbelievable matter.

02-20-2013, 08:42 PM	#987
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Pretty happy with Sony sensors thus far. I have found their first and second generation CCD sensors magnificent and even finer in rendition to the Samsung 14Mp CMOS sensor especially at ISO 100-800. Yeah, a 20-24Mp would be one side of the upgrade in the next generation of camera, but there should be more important aspects that determine whether photographers will go for it - AF performance, P-TTL accuracy, good high ISO rendition, etc. I also have my doubts that the K-3 will be a FF. But I have been wrong before, and it would be a pleasant surprise (albeit probably a little too quick a development from Ricoh).

02-20-2013, 08:52 PM	#988
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by NickLarsson I can't believe the only difference between the K-5 II and the K-3 is a new sensor with 4 Mpx more. There must be something else. The interview on the front page with the Pentax reps state their goal with the K5 II was in 'high sensitivity' (low light).. and their next step is improving the AF So expect a much improved AF on top of a larger pixel count for sure. And it seems obvious you'll also get improved video abilities and other gizmos such as the focus peaking as seen in the K-30 and probably a larger buffer. The K5 II was a rush job.. expect a more robust feature set on the K-3. Also expect APS-C (that one is for our lovingly and always FF optimistic ogl hehe) on this body.

02-20-2013, 08:57 PM	#989
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	And I personally wouldn't buy either the D600 or 6D. I'd stick with my K-5 classic until Ricoh are ready for their FF camera to be released.

02-20-2013, 09:23 PM	#990
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by cfraz * That the Pentax execs could say this with a straight face while there exists multiple D800 vs 645D comparisons in the blogosphere saying precisely the opposite is another, but equally unbelievable matter. No one is requesting a new 645D, because they already have a D800?