K-3 speculation

Cynog Ap Brychan · 06-23-2013, 01:04 PM

Thank you to everyone who answered my question so eruditely. I learned a lot.

timcatn · 06-23-2013, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by beholder3

That is exactly my point.

In reality you can nearly triple sensor pixel count plus double sensor size and maybe still get stuck with a meager +29% in effective resolution, depending on the exact camera/lens combination and where you look.
And down the drain goes the theoretical value which predicted for sensor size alone a +72% larger value.

True, but that doesn't make the theoretical discussion less useful. We need that as a baseline. Besides, it was a theoretical question, so it was a appropriate with a theoretical answer. What might, and might not happen in a given case, is not relevant in that regards.

**dadipentak** · 06-24-2013, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by cmohr

I'd like to see an "in camera" focus limiter setting.

That's a great idea!

WerTicus · 06-24-2013, 06:57 PM

Sony's a99 has a focus limiter

**Digitalis** · 06-24-2013, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by thibs

I often end with f/22 which is a bit too small, probably. 1/ Schneider Super Angulon 75mm/5.6 2/ Schneider Symmar-S 150/5.6

I am familiar with these two lenses though I use the more up-to-date versions, at present I use the Schneider 150mm f/5.6 Super Symmar XL ASPH and the Schneider 80mm f/4.5 Super Symmar XL ASPH. From my experience the Super Angulon 75mm f/5.6 tends to perform better around f/16~f/22 range from what I have seen, resolving power does drop rather steeply towards the edges of the frame so be careful with the camera movements you use. The symmar -S 150mm f/5.6 should be perfectly usable from f/8-f/32... with that lens personally I would avoid stopping down past f/48. I would stop down to f/32 and tilt on the front standard to extend DOF if the subject demanded it - which is the beauty of large format, the ability to manipulate the field of focus.

thibs · 06-25-2013, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

I am familiar with these two lenses though I use the more up-to-date versions, at present I use the Schneider 150mm f/5.6 Super Symmar XL ASPH and the Schneider 80mm f/4.5 Super Symmar XL ASPH. From my experience the Super Angulon 75mm f/5.6 tends to perform better around f/16~f/22 range from what I have seen, resolving power does drop rather steeply towards the edges of the frame so be careful with the camera movements you use. The symmar -S 150mm f/5.6 should be perfectly usable from f/8-f/32... with that lens personally I would avoid stopping down past f/48. I would stop down to f/32 and tilt on the front standard to extend DOF if the subject demanded it - which is the beauty of large format, the ability to manipulate the field of focus.

Many thank, Digitalis, helps me much !

Winder · 07-26-2013, 06:13 AM

Sony is rumored to be releasing the A79 with a 32MP APS-C sensor.

Will Pentax skip 24MP and go from 16MP straight to 32MP?
Will Pentax stay out of the MP race and go with a newer version of the 24MP (assuming Sony will offer one).

**DDoram** · 07-26-2013, 06:24 AM

If they can get the sensor, Pentax should go for the new 32 MP sensor. Think of the ability to crop for wildlife shooting? Also, file sizes would be huge.

Dale

pdo · 07-26-2013, 06:27 AM

Diffraction will kick in way early going to 32mp. I hope Pentax will go with 24mp.

dankoBanana · 07-26-2013, 06:41 AM

32 MPs sound interesting

Clavius · 07-26-2013, 07:13 AM

Why even develope a 32mp sensor if it would be heavily diffraction limited?

gazonk · 07-26-2013, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

Why even develope a 32mp sensor if it would be heavily diffraction limited?

Then why use a 10mp sensor on a Nikon 1 series camera?

Kunzite · 07-26-2013, 07:31 AM

I doubt it would be "diffraction limited"; its linear resolution is just ~1.41x higher than that of the K-5. Oversampling has some advantages, anyway.

gazonk · 07-26-2013, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Oversampling has some advantages, anyway.

a 2x2-pixel binned 8mp high ISO mode would be great for such a sensor!

Fogel70 · 07-26-2013, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

Why even develope a 32mp sensor if it would be heavily diffraction limited?

Because you get more advantages than disadvantages. Diffraction will not get worse on a higher resolution sensor, it will only be more noticable because of the higher resolution.

But a 32MP sensor will probably at least be better than 24MP on these:
- Higer dynamic range
- Lower noise
- Higher resolution (on large aperures where diffraction don't limit resolution)
- Better tonal range
- Less aggresive AA-filter needed (or less risk for moire if used without AA-filter)

All in all a 32MP sensor will improve IQ over 24MP, and diffraction will never make IQ worse on 32MP than with 24MP.

07-26-2013, 07:28 AM	#2097
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Clavius Why even develope a 32mp sensor if it would be heavily diffraction limited? Then why use a 10mp sensor on a Nikon 1 series camera? Last edited by gazonk; 07-26-2013 at 07:36 AM.

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06-23-2013, 01:04 PM	#2086
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Thank you to everyone who answered my question so eruditely. I learned a lot.

06-23-2013, 08:37 PM	#2087
timcatn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Trondheim Posts: 237	Originally posted by beholder3 That is exactly my point. In reality you can nearly triple sensor pixel count plus double sensor size and maybe still get stuck with a meager +29% in effective resolution, depending on the exact camera/lens combination and where you look. And down the drain goes the theoretical value which predicted for sensor size alone a +72% larger value. True, but that doesn't make the theoretical discussion less useful. We need that as a baseline. Besides, it was a theoretical question, so it was a appropriate with a theoretical answer. What might, and might not happen in a given case, is not relevant in that regards.

06-24-2013, 11:40 AM	#2088
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	Originally posted by cmohr I'd like to see an "in camera" focus limiter setting. That's a great idea!

06-24-2013, 06:57 PM	#2089
WerTicus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Perth Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,514	Sony's a99 has a focus limiter

06-24-2013, 07:37 PM	#2090
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by thibs I often end with f/22 which is a bit too small, probably. 1/ Schneider Super Angulon 75mm/5.6 2/ Schneider Symmar-S 150/5.6 I am familiar with these two lenses though I use the more up-to-date versions, at present I use the Schneider 150mm f/5.6 Super Symmar XL ASPH and the Schneider 80mm f/4.5 Super Symmar XL ASPH. From my experience the Super Angulon 75mm f/5.6 tends to perform better around f/16~f/22 range from what I have seen, resolving power does drop rather steeply towards the edges of the frame so be careful with the camera movements you use. The symmar -S 150mm f/5.6 should be perfectly usable from f/8-f/32... with that lens personally I would avoid stopping down past f/48. I would stop down to f/32 and tilt on the front standard to extend DOF if the subject demanded it - which is the beauty of large format, the ability to manipulate the field of focus.

06-25-2013, 10:50 PM	#2091
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Digitalis I am familiar with these two lenses though I use the more up-to-date versions, at present I use the Schneider 150mm f/5.6 Super Symmar XL ASPH and the Schneider 80mm f/4.5 Super Symmar XL ASPH. From my experience the Super Angulon 75mm f/5.6 tends to perform better around f/16~f/22 range from what I have seen, resolving power does drop rather steeply towards the edges of the frame so be careful with the camera movements you use. The symmar -S 150mm f/5.6 should be perfectly usable from f/8-f/32... with that lens personally I would avoid stopping down past f/48. I would stop down to f/32 and tilt on the front standard to extend DOF if the subject demanded it - which is the beauty of large format, the ability to manipulate the field of focus. Many thank, Digitalis, helps me much !

07-26-2013, 06:13 AM	#2092
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Sony is rumored to be releasing the A79 with a 32MP APS-C sensor. Will Pentax skip 24MP and go from 16MP straight to 32MP? Will Pentax stay out of the MP race and go with a newer version of the 24MP (assuming Sony will offer one).

07-26-2013, 06:24 AM	#2093
DDoram Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada Posts: 632	If they can get the sensor, Pentax should go for the new 32 MP sensor. Think of the ability to crop for wildlife shooting? Also, file sizes would be huge. Dale

07-26-2013, 06:27 AM	#2094
pdo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Westminster CA Posts: 264	Diffraction will kick in way early going to 32mp. I hope Pentax will go with 24mp.

07-26-2013, 06:41 AM	#2095
dankoBanana Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 533	32 MPs sound interesting

07-26-2013, 07:13 AM	#2096
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Why even develope a 32mp sensor if it would be heavily diffraction limited?

07-26-2013, 07:31 AM	#2098
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I doubt it would be "diffraction limited"; its linear resolution is just ~1.41x higher than that of the K-5. Oversampling has some advantages, anyway.

07-26-2013, 07:38 AM	#2099
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Kunzite Oversampling has some advantages, anyway. a 2x2-pixel binned 8mp high ISO mode would be great for such a sensor!

07-26-2013, 07:40 AM	#2100
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by Clavius Why even develope a 32mp sensor if it would be heavily diffraction limited? Because you get more advantages than disadvantages. Diffraction will not get worse on a higher resolution sensor, it will only be more noticable because of the higher resolution. But a 32MP sensor will probably at least be better than 24MP on these: - Higer dynamic range - Lower noise - Higher resolution (on large aperures where diffraction don't limit resolution) - Better tonal range - Less aggresive AA-filter needed (or less risk for moire if used without AA-filter) All in all a 32MP sensor will improve IQ over 24MP, and diffraction will never make IQ worse on 32MP than with 24MP.