Originally posted by Kunzite Regarding your last post, I strongly disagree about your "free choice of EVF versus OVF, with everything else equal" dilemma. Everything is not being equal! And, while several camera makers abandoned SLRs by their own will and are fully supporting the EVF technology, it doesn't means the others should also switch their entire range to EVFs.
I was making the point that we can't judge that OVFs are inherently better than EVFs simply because so many people use them. It was a response to "Oddly, those who would most benefit from higher FPS are sport shooting pros who almost resoundingly purchasers of OVF systems" from Aristophanes.
They are using OVFs for lots of reasons, such as the fact that cameras with all the
other things they want happen to have OVFs, and systems with a suitable range of lenses and other important equipment happen to include mainly cameras that happen to have OVFs. If there were systems suitable for top-level professional use that had top-grade cameras with either EVFs or OVFs,
then those professionals would be choosing between them solely according to the merits of EVFs versus OVFs. If they still overwhelmingly chose OVFs, we could validly say "with the current state of development professionals have concluded that OVFs are better than EVFs for their purposes".
I suspect that
at the moment they would come to that decision, because EVFs haven't yet developed to be suitable for such extreme uses. There is a chicken-and-egg problem - until there is sufficient market for top-end EVFs they probably won't get enough investment to catch up fast at that level. But I think it is a matter of "when" not "if" they will become suitable. What discussions will be taking place in these forums in 5 years time?
I'm not arguing that "the others should also switch their entire range to EVFs." I'm not arguing at all what manufacturers
should do - that is for them to decide. The points I have been making in this thread are that there are good engineering reasons why moving mirrors will eventually die out, and why electronic-based viewfinders (including some with features we perhaps haven't thought of here) will take over from them. (And for some people this has already happened). I am drawing on my experiences as an engineer in the IT industry (before I retired).
Originally posted by Aristophanes And top-end Sony.
I have heard pretty much zero clamour for what Sony has from any professional imaging institution from editors, to publishers to the photographers themselves. None.
There is no dearth of superb action and wildlife photos from pros using OVF's. None.
You might be making a statement that an EVF could close the gap between pros and amateurs using the tech to overcome technique, and I would argue that is precisely Sony's objective in the market. Still, at a major sporting even the whirring of the OVF at 12 FPS seems to indicate they miss nothing.
At a certain point you're liking shooting video, again what Sony seems to be aiming for as well. What publishers don't want to pay for anymore is agonizing on the clock and on the dime over stacks and picks.
As for mirror slap, they've damped that so much it's a non-effect, especially on a pro camera with a reasonably competent user. People drag it up like a zombie from the 1980's. Carbon fibre and advanced plastics have reduced the mass for the assembly and effectively solved the problem.
I don't know enough about Sony's total systems to comment about why they are not penetrating this market. I don't know if they have the lenses they would need to make an impact as professional-grade equipment at sports events. Nor do I know whether their EVF-based cameras have all the other things that professionals at such events need. If not, we can't judge whether EVFs are the problem for Sony or whether it is all the other things.
I know professionals who believe that 2 seconds is not long enough for a camera to settle down after the mirror has flipped up, and advocate much longer delays. And I've been in hides where many occupants have been concerned that the noise of cameras firing at X fps is frightening the birds away. The problems of moving mirrors have
certainly not been solved!
Originally posted by cfraz LOL. Of course we we freely choose among viewfinders. If sports photographers wanted to use EVF cameras, that's what they would use.
Oh, you mean that other EVF, the one whose attributes mitigate all the issues that made sports photographers chose OVF over EVF? The one made by ... Um, sorry, that's right, nobody makes it. The technology isn't there yet.
Unless you're suggesting that manufacturers are refusing to bring a product to market that has every possible advantage over the OVF because they are just stupid, or have some other nefarious motives, I just don't get your point. It seems you're gettting awfully worked up about photographers who choose an OVF now rather than what an EVF will be (you hope) in 5 years time.
How would those sports photographers use EVF cameras if there aren't top-end EVF cameras accompanied by top-end systems including lenses? I've already made this point earlier in this post, so I won't repeat it.
I don't know what research and development on EVFs is going on in the major companies, nor why they are making the investment decisions they are making. I am confident that they are
not making all those decisions for purely rational reasons!
Companies simple don't work like that. If they did, we wouldn't so often hear people say in forums "what
did they have in mind when they decided to do that?!"
For example, for years I've thought that it would be better for users and the industry as a whole for Canon and Nikon and the others to use the DNG raw file format. That topic is probably what I am best known for on the web, and
I've published masses of information and analysis on DNG. But they haven't done so, and show no signs of doing so, even though Pentax has shown that it is possible to make the switch from a proprietary format. Why don't they? Partly because
they simply have the weight in the marketplace to get away with not doing so, despite the potential advantages to their users if they did so. In fact, somehow they have even made many of their users into anti-DNG advocates! So DNG has become the raw file format of niche and minority manufacturers, even though it has advantages for photographers such as no need to wait for support for new camera models, and the fact that DNG is the only archival raw file format.
I'm not the slightest bit worked up about photographers and their choices! Why should I care what choices they make? That is their business, not mine. I'm speaking here as an engineer, and discussing the advantages and disadvantages of different technologies, now and in the future. Because I've been using Pentax SLRs for about 46 years, and because my career was in the computer industry, I'm trying to take a long view based on the nature of changes I've seen in the past.
There is an interesting feature of new technologies: they tend to take a lot longer to penetrate the marketplace and have an impact than their advocates expected; but when they do make an impact, perhaps after many years, it is bigger than they expected. That may be happening here.