[Taobat]

"Driving your camera," a new piece by Sean Reid on the Luminous Landscape singles out the K-5 dials and pancake focus rings as examples of utilitarian camera design done right.

Worth a read.

"cameras like the Nikon D300 or Pentax K5 - for example - have contemporary-style controls that are very well thought out...

On the K5, a thumbwheel controls aperture and an upper wheel controls shutter speed (importantly, these wheels don't change their function in different exposure modes). "

"Pentax, with their pancake prime lenses, has shown us that compact lenses can be affordable and auto-focus while still allowing true mechanical manual focus (with distances marked right on the lens barrel)."

"Affordable" is clearly a highly variable concept and must look very different to people who buy medium format cameras!

[uccemebug]

Nice! Good quotes:

"Automobile makers, as a rule, don't fool around when designing the key controls of a car. Camera makers often do."

and

"For starters, I think it might be helpful for camera designers/engineers to begin any design process by spending some time with older mechanical cameras (SLRs and rangefinders, ideally) just to remind themselves of what those cameras do and why."

Yes. Please!

[VaughnA]

Nice! Good quotes:

"Automobile makers, as a rule, don't fool around when designing the key controls of a car. Camera makers often do."

and

"For starters, I think it might be helpful for camera designers/engineers to begin any design process by spending some time with older mechanical cameras (SLRs and rangefinders, ideally) just to remind themselves of what those cameras do and why."

Yes. Please!

AMEN! , I want a DK1000 with a sensor and a needle meter.

I do think that Pentax does better than most with ergonomics.

[rparmar]

I agree. Pentax does better than most but are far from perfect and seem to be standing still.

The new modifiable RAW button is a step forward but I think two "soft" buttons and a "soft menu" system where you can place most used items are essential to customising complex gear.

The command dials cannot be completely customised and in fact cannot be set to what I prefer (direct control of ISO in M mode).

And about a dozen other suggestions...

[kevinschoenmakers]

I agree. Pentax does better than most but are far from perfect and seem to be standing still.

Oh please.

[rparmar]

Oh please.

What an informative message! All I gather from it is that you are complacent about ergonomics. If so, why post at all?

Personally, I think several of the ergonomic changes since the K20D have been a step backwards. That body had the better button placement, SD card slot, etc. That said, I prefer the K-7/K-5 size and the grip has been nicely modified to fit the hand. (Nothing wrong with the K10D/K20D design but this grip suits the smaller bodies better.)

Also it cannot be denied that removing DOF scale, aperture ring etc. makes the newer Pentax lenses just as generic as their Canikon equivalents. Direct control and feedback are two pivotal concept of HCI. (Ironically, lenses with aperture rings are more important than ever, as they are functional when coupled to micro-four-thirds cameras and the like.)

Furthermore, if you were to actually read the article you would see that Pentax lacks in other features that the author (and myself) would like to see... like a dedicated ISO wheel for example.

Lots of room for improvement still!

[timh]

Pentax are pretty good, ergonomically - but I still don't think the K-5 is quite as well thought out as my old Minolta A2 (LL loved that too, I seem to remember). Just the right combination of old and new style physical controls, and almost never any need to go into a menu.

I may be wearing rose-tinted specs, of course.

[thibs]

Pentax are pretty good, ergonomically - but I still don't think the K-5 is quite as well thought out as my old Minolta A2 (LL loved that too, I seem to remember). Just the right combination of old and new style physical controls, and almost never any need to go into a menu.

Ouch... took 10 minutes to find out out where the power switch was on the A2

[thibs]

Also it cannot be denied that removing DOF scale, aperture ring etc. makes the newer Pentax lenses just as generic as their Canikon equivalents. Direct control and feedback are two pivotal concept of HCI. (Ironically, lenses with aperture rings are more important than ever, as they are functional when coupled to micro-four-thirds cameras and the like.)

Furthermore, if you were to actually read the article you would see that Pentax lacks in other features that the author (and myself) would like to see... like a dedicated ISO wheel for example.

Lots of room for improvement still!

You may somehow confuse features and ergonomics. I know each one influences the other but still.
And aperture ring are no necessity for m43, buying the good adapter is. You can't blame Pentax for that can you?

[uccemebug]

AMEN! , I want a DK1000 with a sensor and a needle meter.

8^)

I agree with this simple summation:

The key controls in driving relate to steering, braking, shifting, seeing the road, etc. So what are the key controls in photography (aside from the shutter release)? I'd suggest that they are the following:

Focus (including focus mode)
Aperture
Shutter Speed
EV compensation
ISO

More than anything, what I miss in the way of manual controls is an EV compensation dial.

[rparmar]

You may somehow confuse features and ergonomics. I know each one influences the other but still.

No, I am not confused. An aperture ring is not a trivial feature. It changes ergonomics drastically, since now one has direct control over aperture where one did not before, with both visual and tactile feedback. In the article the author praises cameras like those made by Pentax which maintain the same function for a command dial throughout operation. And then Reid mentions the visual feedback in both the viewfinder and on the top LCD. I am saying exactly the same as him... that this is a good thing.

Certainly an aperture ring is redundant on a camera with such controls. My statement about m43 was simply to drive home the point that aperture rings still have a place. Though perhaps when all possible camera bodies have direct access to aperture, shutter speed and ISO that will no longer be the case.

And aperture ring are no necessity for m43, buying the good adapter is.

You are talking about the difference between an adapter that costs 170 Euro and one that costs 20 Euro. Most of us don't want to pay an order of magnitude more for a simple metal coupling, simply to overcome a lack in the lens itself.

You can't blame Pentax for that can you?

You are getting overly defensive. Please point out where I did any such thing.

[timh]

Ouch... took 10 minutes to find out out where the power switch was on the A2

Were you confused by their use of the universally-known power symbol? Didn't expect such an obvious sign on a camera?

[thibs]

Focus Mode? Why? Manual with micro prisms and stigmometer is enough in the case of a DK1000
Oh, and CW metering only of course

[thibs]

Were you confused by their use of the universally-known power symbol? Didn't expect such an obvious sign on a camera?

I know I think is was the weird (to me at the time) placement of the switch

[bobmaxja]

We are in 2011, please adjust to change, I do not want to go back to the 90's