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06-07-2011, 03:01 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pl Jensen Quote
Completely wrong. Optical viewfinders will never go away. Just like the e-book will never replace real ones.
Note that cameras with optical finders already have the "new technology".
They may never go away, but they will be a small % of the market. Film will never go away either.... not completely..... But it is not the future.

There will be areas of photography where OVF will hold on, but the moving mirror (lag and vibration) will disappear for a large number of photographers. 100% OVFs have to be calibrated by hand. They are big, noisy, the PDAF has to be calibrated to match the actual sensor plane.

06-07-2011, 03:10 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
Yeah just like LCD monitors will never replace CRT ones... oh wait.
Never heard that one before.

Actually, LCD monitors were mass produced with the sole intent to replace CRT monitors, so there was never a question of "LCD monitors will never replace CRT" - manufacturers of LCD monitors at one time received government money to help rush them to the market quicker.

---> ---> --->

The online retailer, in posting its latest financial results, revealed that paid-for sales of the electronic format outstrip its total sales of paperbacks – although combined sales of paperbacks and hardbacks still seem to maintain print's number one spot overall

Read deeper my friend, the underlined part in particular - this is Amazon Sales, not retail E-Books Vs. Printed in general. Oh wait, guess it would through Amazon's sales as they do push their E-Book pretty hard and heavy...

So juu, maybe we all need to choose better examples, including you...



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06-07-2011, 03:18 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
Do you honestly think that a purchase of Pentax would be for (Cough Cough) technology?

What is the absolute quickest and easiest way to overtake a retail market?
A. Build your product from the ground up and hope that it gains consumer confidence...
B. Purchase an established company with somewhat of a market share and expand upon its NAME...

Lets see here:

Press Release, Oct 20th, 2014
Samsung Electronics releases new groundbreaking DSLR Camera... YaDaDaDaDaDa...

-OR-

Press Release, Oct 20th, 2014
Samsung Electronics releases new groundbreaking Pentax DSLR Camera... YaDaDaDaDaDa...

The second one sounds quite a bit better, both for the owning company and for the consumer.

Thats all it takes in a retail market is an established name. So is it far fetched, absolutely 100% not. As for a window of opportunity, that hasn't even opened yet - the current publicity and accolades that Pentax is receiving is more than likely opening eyes. Consumer based companies do not buy or acquire other consumer based companies when they are not doing well, they acquire them on the upswing or at flat bottom (where they can then liquidate the assets and close shop), no in betweens...
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If all Samsung needs is a name then Contax is currently available for purchase.

I don't see and advantage in buying Pentax at this point. Samsung has a much better distribution network and the younger generation does not view Pentax is the same light as the older generation. The younger generation is more likely to adapt to newer technologies like EVF.

These technologies all need to mature before they will become dominate, but I think it will happen sooner rather than later. OVF systems will continue to evolve as well. Companies have too much invested.

Samsung's "voice coil" AF appears to have a lot of potential for extremely fast/quiet AF and from what I hear their ring motor is significantly better than SDM. Samsung still has a long way to go, and they may very well drop the ball, but I like the direction and the innovation. Pentax needs to do more than add a few more colors to the line up. Where is the innovation?
06-07-2011, 03:35 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
If all Samsung needs is a name then Contax is currently available for purchase.

I don't see and advantage in buying Pentax at this point. Samsung has a much better distribution network and the younger generation does not view Pentax is the same light as the older generation. The younger generation is more likely to adapt to newer technologies like EVF.

These technologies all need to mature before they will become dominate, but I think it will happen sooner rather than later. OVF systems will continue to evolve as well. Companies have too much invested.

Samsung's "voice coil" AF appears to have a lot of potential for extremely fast/quiet AF and from what I hear their ring motor is significantly better than SDM. Samsung still has a long way to go, and they may very well drop the ball, but I like the direction and the innovation. Pentax needs to do more than add a few more colors to the line up. Where is the innovation?
And I can agree there, but a name is a very, very, very powerful thing - in a retail market, name recognition is the most powerful thing.

We have to remember this, the bulk of people purchasing the higher end DSLR's I would guess would be in the age range of 30's and up (only because of cost, and this is just a guess). Who in their 30's (and up) have not heard of the Pentax Brand that have been shooting for any period of time? I think we would be hard pressed to find someone that fits this criteria that has not heard of Pentax.

Back on the name/brand thing, we just seen it a few years ago (well, maybe more than a few now). Cingular Wireless was out of control, at one time everyone was jumping to Cingular - Along came AT&T. AT&T had a superior network, better service, better technology, and a better lineup of phones - but they were missing something, and that was a huge customer base. We all heard about it, the big "So Called Merger" - it was never a merger, AT&T purchased Cingular, with that purchase they overtook the entire market (at that time, times have changed since then).

I just think it is possible - for me I can care less, again, I like being the only one on the block with my Pentax ....



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06-07-2011, 04:33 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
And I can agree there, but a name is a very, very, very powerful thing - in a retail market, name recognition is the most powerful thing.

We have to remember this, the bulk of people purchasing the higher end DSLR's I would guess would be in the age range of 30's and up (only because of cost, and this is just a guess). Who in their 30's (and up) have not heard of the Pentax Brand that have been shooting for any period of time? I think we would be hard pressed to find someone that fits this criteria that has not heard of Pentax.

Back on the name/brand thing, we just seen it a few years ago (well, maybe more than a few now). Cingular Wireless was out of control, at one time everyone was jumping to Cingular - Along came AT&T. AT&T had a superior network, better service, better technology, and a better lineup of phones - but they were missing something, and that was a huge customer base. We all heard about it, the big "So Called Merger" - it was never a merger, AT&T purchased Cingular, with that purchase they overtook the entire market (at that time, times have changed since then).

I just think it is possible - for me I can care less, again, I like being the only one on the block with my Pentax ....
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If the Pentax name was strong enough to leverage against Canon/Nikon/Sony then I would agree. The Pentax name has value, but not enough and given the direction that Samsung is headed I don't think they want to be tied to legacy glass. Canon is one of the few companies that is strong enough to make a major move (like abandoning support for FD and moving to the EF). At some point legacy glass becomes an anchor, and people buying used glass off of e-bay don't = money for Samsung.

Samsung has to produce a system that is innovative and compelling enough to make people consider their product over more established brands. That is a tall order, but Samsung appears to be making a very strong effort. They are thinking outside the box and it is refreshing. Photographers are a finicky brand loyal bunch who often fight technology. Things that were viewed a gimmicks (AF, Digital, small sensors) are the standard today. I have zero use for HD video, but it is a standard feature today... 3 years ago nobody had it. It only takes 3 years for the industry to "revolutionize". In 3 years EVIL systems will dominate consumer and enthusiast price points. Traditional OVF will be like FF in that they will only make up a small % of sales on high end cameras.
06-07-2011, 05:18 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Pentax needs to do more than add a few more colors to the line up. Where is the innovation?
Agreed. Let's see some innovative new lenses. Pentax needs to dump these SDM zooms (the SDM primes seem to be okay) and come up with something that really rocks the boat. Plus some more primes. We could always use more primes (especially us Pentax users).

QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
We have to remember this, the bulk of people purchasing the higher end DSLR's I would guess would be in the age range of 30's and up (only because of cost, and this is just a guess). Who in their 30's (and up) have not heard of the Pentax Brand that have been shooting for any period of time? I think we would be hard pressed to find someone that fits this criteria that has not heard of Pentax.
I know of a fist-full right off the top of my head... But yeah, you're right. Most people who have been invested in photography for the past 20+ years definitely know of Pentax...
06-07-2011, 07:25 PM   #22
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Pentax has ...... us. Loyal followers who think of themselves as photographers rather than camera buyers. Other photographers give us some credit, even if sometimes grudgingly.

And we cannot forget some good comments in the photo magazines. Oh, never mind. They're only read by photographers.

Always about photography rather than retailers' shelves and consumer image.

Sony has the key to the mass market but they don't quite seem to have a clear idea of what they want to do. Hoya has a crisper view of the businesses and markets it wants to participate in and I don't think the mass camera market is among them.

If brands were to collapse, Pentax and Samsung make better sense. For technology sharing, Pentax and Sony are better bets.

My bet is on Samsung.
06-07-2011, 08:08 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Pentax has ...... us. Loyal followers who think of themselves as photographers rather than camera buyers. Other photographers give us some credit, even if sometimes grudgingly.

And we cannot forget some good comments in the photo magazines. Oh, never mind. They're only read by photographers.

Always about photography rather than retailers' shelves and consumer image.

Sony has the key to the mass market but they don't quite seem to have a clear idea of what they want to do. Hoya has a crisper view of the businesses and markets it wants to participate in and I don't think the mass camera market is among them.

If brands were to collapse, Pentax and Samsung make better sense. For technology sharing, Pentax and Sony are better bets.

My bet is on Samsung.
Who still hold on to K10D, K200D and MF lenses and refuse to buy a jolly good K5 so that Pentax can make some real $$$

06-07-2011, 09:34 PM   #24
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I think it's great for Samsung. The best P&S I had was a Samsung and I really liked the NX concept, wouldn't bother owning one if there were more lenses available. If they keep innovating they can be the next Sony.

Also, would be great if they bought Pentax. A NX with Pentax's build quality, sensor shift and WR would be killer.
06-07-2011, 10:56 PM   #25
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i took the jump for a recent trip, and got a small NX100 kit. The compactness of this kit is outstanding. great for travel. I will say that this NX system is NOT in the same ballpark with traditional SLR for technical works, so my K20 still will be the thing i grab when things get dicey. i do like their lens roadmap and the 30mm f2 was a serious contender, no doubt.

As for the NX100, i think that design is adequate but still need lots of improvement. i'm confident that will come with time. The 3 lens i got are outstanding values, however. I just hope they don't abandon the mount technology and leave these little jewels to obsolecence.
06-07-2011, 11:36 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
Never heard that one before.
You must not have hanged out at computermonitorforums.com then

QuoteQuote:
Read deeper my friend, the underlined part in particular - this is Amazon Sales, not retail E-Books Vs. Printed in general. Oh wait, guess it would through Amazon's sales as they do push their E-Book pretty hard and heavy...
a) Amazon is one of the largest printed book vendor anyway, so the results are relevant for the industry.
b) The writing is one the wall (well, or on the portable e-book reader screen). Just like in the case of EVF vs. OVF.

People may choose to ignore it if they so wish though, as they evidently often do.
06-08-2011, 12:22 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
As for now the consuming of power and producing of heat in camera is still very high to just swap to electronics on everything and make it still a professional grade camera. But in time.....who knows.
I don't think this is an issue that would be difficult to resolve nowadays. for example, the heat that is produced by standard CRT TV/monitors and PLASMA generates some considerable amount of heat, they came out with LED technology which have decreased the heat generation and power consumption by a very large degree. same with the big old cpu processors which then requires some strong cooling system. nowadays, they use fibre optic silicon chips which are cheaper and can perform way faster with less amount of heat generation and requirement of small cooling system is more than enough to maintain stability which also minimizes power consumption.
06-08-2011, 12:37 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Samsung's "voice coil" AF appears to have a lot of potential for extremely fast/quiet AF and from what I hear their ring motor is significantly better than SDM.

I had tried it and believe me it is really fast and quiet. actually I like the AF system operation better than the screwdrive and SDM combined. no whirring noise of some sort. actually the only noise that I hear is the beep of the focus confirmation. having said that, I still think there is room for improvement in either camera AF motor speed or lens AF speed mechanism.
06-08-2011, 12:40 AM   #29
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I believe what Samsung needs is a widespread camera brand ad campaign. after all, that's what made Canon a success and made people in general idiots that it is the only camera in the world. no pun intended, just the truth.
06-08-2011, 06:25 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
I had tried it and believe me it is really fast and quiet. actually I like the AF system operation better than the screwdrive and SDM combined. no whirring noise of some sort. actually the only noise that I hear is the beep of the focus confirmation. having said that, I still think there is room for improvement in either camera AF motor speed or lens AF speed mechanism.
I want to try it out. I wonder how it will work with heavier elements. There is nothing holding the element in place when power is off so I worry about the element sliding around inside the lens.
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