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06-08-2011, 09:17 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
Yeah just like LCD monitors will never replace CRT ones... oh wait.

Oh and btw:
Amazon's ebook sales eclipse paperbacks for the first time

You may want to choose better examples.
What about "photography is dead, because we have moving pictures now." And "B&W is dead because we have color"?

I'm sorry, but a OVF will always be superior to EVF. Nothing is more live and real then the real image itself. EVF is a gadget like pink camera's with glow in the dark neckstraps. Even if EVF will one day be as good as OVF, then I still don't see the use.

06-08-2011, 09:41 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
What about "photography is dead, because we have moving pictures now." And "B&W is dead because we have color"?

I'm sorry, but a OVF will always be superior to EVF. Nothing is more live and real then the real image itself. EVF is a gadget like pink camera's with glow in the dark neckstraps. Even if EVF will one day be as good as OVF, then I still don't see the use.
I'd immediately return my K-5 for one with a EVF. Because it would be great to have a camera without focusing errors (focusing is done on the sensor itself) and much better metering (again, metering is done on the sensor itself and it will always be better, even with old MF lenses). Finally an EVF is a superb solution for manual focus shooters (what you see is what you get). No more fiddling around with 3rd party ground glass screens and shims. If the EVF camera provides a "focus peaking" feature (it shows what parts of the picture are sharp, in a distinctive color) then there's no going back to a OVF.

OVF was a great solution, but a far better solution is just around the corner. I even think the K-5's successor will be the last Pentax with an OVF and a mirror. Finally small wide angle lenses without the darned retrofocus construction
06-08-2011, 09:55 AM   #33
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Is it me, or is everyone looking forward to the day when there is no more challenge to photography? Almost 50% of the posts I see on the forum is someone hoping for this and hoping for that, something that will make it easier for them to turn a better photo. What ever happened to the challenge?




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06-08-2011, 10:11 AM   #34
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I think Samsung runs into the same problems that Pentax does in the United States -- lack of placement. They may have awesome products (although the sensor in the K7 was a little behind the times), but Nikon/Canon are the ones that have the most exposure, while Sony seems to have cornered the APS-C mirrorless market.

06-08-2011, 10:23 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
Is it me, or is everyone looking forward to the day when there is no more challenge to photography? Almost 50% of the posts I see on the forum is someone hoping for this and hoping for that, something that will make it easier for them to turn a better photo. What ever happened to the challenge?




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I don't think it's about challenge but convenience of use. of course, we could live with some of the cons that present cameras possess. but that doesn't mean that we should stop there by virtue of leaving a challenge for the user. the thing is, you can have the best camera with the best capabilities, but still it is up to the user's photography, composition and pp skills to create a really great image.
06-08-2011, 10:47 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I'd immediately return my K-5 for one with a EVF.
Maybe my sarcasm detector is broken, but isn't EVF in K-5 already?
06-08-2011, 10:54 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
and pp skills to create a really great image
PP Skills = another convenience that makes the less talented look like seasoned professionals.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
thing is, you can have the best camera with the best capabilities, but still it is up to the user's photography, composition
I am a firm believer in the "Picture Taker or Picture Maker" philosophy, now, lets look into the future:

1. Stop by walmart and buy a camera
2. Find a subject to shoot
3. Push a couple of on-screen buttons:
- I want a blurry background, press button
- I want only the person walking by in focus, press button
- I want the camera to calculate everything for me (cameras algorithm knows precisely what shutter speed and aperture value is needs, so adjusts the ISO accordingly), press button
- Press Shutter
4. Crop in camera (Focused subject in upper left of picture)

Wow, "Billy The Toilet Guy" just pulled off an amazing picture with his $60 walmart camera that he just purchased 25 minutes earlier, this is more than a "convenience of use" issue...



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06-08-2011, 11:13 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
What about "photography is dead, because we have moving pictures now." And "B&W is dead because we have color"?
B&W is effectively dead, and replaced by colour. Strange example.

And TV / movie studios combined earn way more than photographers do so in some strange sense even the idea behind "photography is replaced by moving pictures" has come partially true.

QuoteQuote:
I'm sorry, but a OVF will always be superior to EVF. Nothing is more live and real then the real image itself. EVF is a gadget like pink camera's with glow in the dark neckstraps. Even if EVF will one day be as good as OVF, then I still don't see the use.
I'm sorry but what you say doesn't make any sense. The best EVFs are better than the average dim APSC penta-mirror OVFs already. In 5 years time anything less than a FF penta-prism OVF will be superseded by EVFs.

Your emotional appeal to "real image itself" and the use of emotional wording like "gadget like pink camera's with glow in dark neckstraps" don't an argument make.

06-08-2011, 11:44 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
PP Skills = another convenience that makes the less talented look like seasoned professionals.



I am a firm believer in the "Picture Taker or Picture Maker" philosophy, now, lets look into the future:

1. Stop by walmart and buy a camera
2. Find a subject to shoot
3. Push a couple of on-screen buttons:
- I want a blurry background, press button
- I want only the person walking by in focus, press button
- I want the camera to calculate everything for me (cameras algorithm knows precisely what shutter speed and aperture value is needs, so adjusts the ISO accordingly), press button
- Press Shutter
4. Crop in camera (Focused subject in upper left of picture)

Wow, "Billy The Toilet Guy" just pulled off an amazing picture with his $60 walmart camera that he just purchased 25 minutes earlier, this is more than a "convenience of use" issue...



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Billy the Toilet Guy just happens to be a good photographer. being a Toilet Guy is only a side job.
06-08-2011, 12:05 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
Billy the Toilet Guy just happens to be a good photographer. being a Toilet Guy is only a side job.
Could be, but I think you see where I am going with this. An in camera algorithm to enable a camera to automatically do this would be pretty simplistic for an engineer to come up with. Cameras already have the ability to detect a change in the surroundings via face detection (even Pentax CIF can detect a change in the surroundings).

Using just that information, an algorithm can:

- Detect the actual speed of the moving subject
- Using metering, the algorithm would know the exact precise amount of light it needs for the composition
- The algorithm would also know the precise distance from the front subject to the nearest back subject - this would be precisely calculated using simple autofocus and using calculations from the retrieved lens data (lens pre-focuses on distant object, sends data to algorithm, lens drops out of focus and waits for closer subject in scene, gets distance, sends that back to algorithm - the precise calculation has just been made)

A system like this will enable 4 year old's to nab great photos...



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06-08-2011, 12:25 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by juu Quote
I'm sorry but what you say doesn't make any sense. The best EVFs are better than the average dim APSC penta-mirror OVFs already. In 5 years time anything less than a FF penta-prism OVF will be superseded by EVFs.
e.
DSLR's already have EVF's. The concept is to remove an optical finder which is a feature. The main function of a finder is looking, and looking is best done optically; thats why we have glasses, windows, binoculars instead of LCD screens. Seeing the real thing is the perfect solution for seeing the real thing; no need to reinvent the wheel. EVF have their uses - thats why they are included on DSLR's. A camera without optical finder is a camera without an important feature.
EVF will no more replace optical finders than FF will replace APS; its a faulty logic. Give it five years or ten. EVF's will be for cameras that are cheap and/or small.
And the e-book has not replaced the paper book; never will. It is a new product and a further fragmentation of the market. EVIL camera s is a further fragmentation of the digital camera market; a response to the diminishing sales of P&S due to cell phones (thats why it is P&S manufaturers that bothers with it so far; not the major DSLR manufacturers). It will not replace anything except fighting for our money among all the other things we will use it for.

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 06-08-2011 at 12:36 PM.
06-08-2011, 12:30 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I'd immediately return my K-5 for one with a EVF. Because it would be great to have a camera without focusing errors (focusing is done on the sensor itself)
If your K5 has focussing errors, shouldn't you return it and have it fixed? I'm kidding of course, but truth is, these camera's focus correctly as it is. Whenever I run into incorrectly focussed images then I myself am the one to blame.

QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
No more fiddling around with 3rd party ground glass screens and shims.
I use manual focus lenses and I don't fiddle around with any screens, glass or shims. Maybe you should quit that and your camera wil focus and meter better?

I've toyed around a sony nex for a good year, and finally gave it away. It was horrible compared to current dslrs. Heck, I shoot better with my k1000. I'm not THAT good of a photographer yet that I need to give myself a handycap.
06-08-2011, 01:09 PM - 1 Like   #43
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Pål Jensen, I think we are going in circles, so I won't bother responding in detail. Enjoy your CRTs, telegraphs, sail ships, floppy drives, etc.
06-08-2011, 01:51 PM   #44
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My Korean friend who used to work in Sumsung said Sumsung is 'too big to fail' for Korean. So it won't go bankrupt anytime soon.... if Sumsung bought Pentax, is good for us I guess.

And Sumsung seem to have the same philosophy like the old Pentax 'great product and competitively priced'.
06-08-2011, 02:33 PM   #45
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After departing from Sony for their reckless decisions about Minolta, I shudder at the thought of anyone taking over Pentax. Maybe one generation of good gear to appease the Pentax faithful, as Sony did up to the A700 - then welcome to the world as Samsung sees it. No thank you.
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